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RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied

 
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RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 8/20/2007 8:39:03 PM   
veji1

 

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go for it, many ships won't make it to kwaj or Truk in time while you have Suva right there... 

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RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 8/20/2007 9:32:33 PM   
George Patton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

go for it, many ships won't make it to kwaj or Truk in time while you have Suva right there...


Yes, I think that I'll do it. But I don't know how many hexes ordering to move north to save as much point as possible.

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Post #: 92
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 8/20/2007 10:03:18 PM   
George Patton


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Ok. I have decided to move one hex south of Funafuti.
If one of my carriers will sunk, the air group will transfer to another CV, to Suva or Pago-Pago. Three options should be fine.

Wish me luck. I need a lot.

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Post #: 93
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 8/20/2007 10:40:23 PM   
Feinder


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Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Again, the mega-CV battles tend to be fairly bloody affairs, and either
a.  You will blunt Japan here and now.
b.  (if you lose) Japan will "gain" another year of agression.
c.  A draw is strongly in your favor (altho I rarely see equal damages).
d. If he retreats, you've at least shown him you're going to stand up to him.

Every time a Val dives on your RN CVs, you'll be glad that you brought them along, and cheeras the 250kg ping-pong balls bounce off their flight decks (and NOT thru your USN CVs).

Good luck.

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/21/2007 4:45:19 AM >


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Post #: 94
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 8/21/2007 1:04:00 AM   
Mistmatz

 

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Hmmm... I wonder if one of his TF's is a surface combat TF. With an aggressive commander such a TF could react to your CV's and steal them operational points, or worse...

Anyway, this is gonna be an exiting turn. Keep the reports coming, and best of luck.

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Post #: 95
Battle of the Ellice - 8/21/2007 10:00:04 PM   
George Patton


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April 19th, 1942

Burma

The AK with 59. BR LAA Rgt aboard, badly damaged, but survived after two air attacks, reached Akyab harbor. Unfortunately an enemy sub was there to wait for her and sunk her with 2 torpedoes.

South Pac

Early in the morning the recon of both parts, spotted the opposing force. The KB were NE of Funafuti. My carriers reacted and closed of 1 hex and the same have done the enemy CV.

My planes attacked first.
First wave, composed by 34 SBD, 15 TBD and (only!) 6 F4F, arrived over KB. 92 Zeros were on CAP. Only 8 SBD and 6 TBD managed to pass through the screen. 1 1000 lbs-bomb hit Kongo: boink!
Another 1000 lbs-bomb hit CV Soryu and exploded beneath the deck.
Ah, by the way...No Zero shot down...

The second attack was more dramatic. 84 SBD, 30 TBD, 35 Albacore, escorted by a total of 30 fighters, arrived over KB, few minutes later the first wave. The same 92 Zeros were on CAP.
23 allied fighters have been shot down, in exchange of only 3 Zeros. Also 15 SBD, 6 TBD and 10 Albacore ended their flight in the water, but the rest of my armada attacked the Kido Butai.
CV Shokaku received 11 bombs, while CV Zuikaku received 9 bombs and 1 torpedo.

The third were were composed by 4 F4F (!), 34 SBD and 15 TBD. Again, 89 Zero were on CAP. I suppose that japanese pilots were tired, because only 1 SBD, 3 TBD and 1 F4F have been shot down, while 2 Zero have been shot down.
CV Shokaku received 4 more bombs, CV Zuikaku 2 bombs, while CA Aoba and Kinugasa have been hit by 1 bomb each.

There was time also for the fourth wave, composed by 15 SBD (1 shot down) and 17 TBD (5 lost), (no Zero shot down). CV Zuikaku and CV Shokaku received 2 more bombs each.

It’s obvious that Chuck divided KB in at least 2 TFs. This decision saved the death star.

Then came the japanese attack. The first (small) wave, 23 Val and 6 Zero, was intercepted by 83 fighters. 15 Val and 6 Zero shot down and the others Val turned back. No losses for the allied.

The second wave, composed by 22 Val, 25 Kate and 9 Zero, has been intercepted by the same 83 fighters. Only 1 F2F and 1 F4F lost, while my pilots shot down 6 Zero, 12 Val and 14 Kate have been shot down, and the survivors, again, turned back.

The third massive wave, composed by 61 Val, 78 Kate and 37 Zero, easily escaped from my 81 fighters on CAP.
CV Hornet took 2 torpedoes and 5 small bombs, CV Enterprise 2 torpedoes, 3 – 250kg – bombs and 2 small bombs, CV Lexington 5 torps, 1 -250 kg bombs and 2 small bombs, CA Chicago 2 torps and DD Lamson 4 bombs and 1 torp.
I lost 15 fighters, while japs lost 10 Zeros, 6 Vals and 9 Kates.

20 Kate and 6 Zero formed the fourth wave. 65 fighters were on CAP, but were unable to stop them.
3 Kate and 6 of my fighters shot down. CV Enterprise took 2 more torps.

Fifth wave attacked the same TF (again!). 21 Kate, 17 Val and 13 Zero fought against 58 fighters, but managed 1 torpedo on Lexington and 3 bombs and 1 torpedo on Hornet. 2 Kate and 13 allied fighters lost.

All this happened in the morning!!

In the afternoon british TF closed one more hex and launched one small air attack. I lost 4 Albacores during an attempt to attack CV Akagi, without results.
9 SBD and 2 TBD tried the same, and a SBD scored 1 1000 lbs – bomb on Akagi. 2 SBD and 1 TBD lost.

Then, 18 Zero and 16 Kate, from another carrier TF, probably composed by light carriers due to the number of planes, attacked the british TF. Prince of Wales and Repulse received 1 torpedo each. Only 1 Kate shot down.

44 Val, 21 Kate and 29 Zero attacked again. Only 5 british fighters were on CAP. The closing of one hex towards the KB, leaved the british ships without US air cover. 3 Val and 1 Kate for the japs and 2 fighters for the british shot down.
CV Formidable resulted hit by 10 bombs and 4 torps, CV Indomitable by 4 bombs and 2 torps, BB Prince of Wales by 2 bombs and CA Canberra by 1 bomb.

Before dusk, Lexington and Enterprise sunk. No reports of enemy sinking, but I suppose that Zuikaku and Shokaku are in a very bad conditions and they are between the Ellice and Suva. A long way home.

During this terrible day, this are the air losses.

89 Kate
60 Val
39 Zero

188 a/c


126 SBD
61 TBD
19 Albacore
5 Sea Hurricane
21 Fulmar
14 F2A
19 F4F-3
24 F4F-4

The damages for my ships are the following:

CV Formidable 50/69/38
CV Indomitable 35/34/42
BB Prince of Wales 35/6/14
BC Repulse 25/14/10

CV Hornet 58/89/49
DD Lamson 64/19/25

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Post #: 96
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/21/2007 10:20:29 PM   
George Patton


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My losse have been very high, in the air too.

Now what can I do. Sprint nord and finish off the two damaged carriers or retire, safe with what I still have, in my base in Suva?

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Post #: 97
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/21/2007 10:44:12 PM   
George Patton


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Ouch.
I checked my air groups, and I have now decided that is time to retire.
I have 152 aircrafts out of 372, but only 80 operationals, the other damaged.

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Post #: 98
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/21/2007 10:53:28 PM   
George Patton


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I have decided to regroup again all the british ships in one TF (Formidable was in a slower and sep TF) and send them to Suva. They will sail very slow, but together they will reach the destination.
Instead Hornet will be with only one DD. I really don't know if she will reach Suva. The damages are very high.

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Post #: 99
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 12:02:06 AM   
Feinder


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CV Hornet 58/89/49

Very, very, UN-likely that she will make it.

-F-

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Post #: 100
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 12:49:52 PM   
George Patton


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April 20th, 1942

South Pac

During the night the SS RO-65 tried to attack my ships. One torpedo hit DD Anderson. The enemy sub has been hit.

My decision to regroup the british TF revealed to be a very bad one. The japs moved south and attacked my ships, hitting CV Indomitable with 3 torpedo and 3 bombs, BC Repulse with 2 bombs, CA Dorsetshire with 2 torps and BB Prince of Wales with 1 torp and 8 bombs.

My Hudson from Suva tried to attack enemy carriers but four of them have been shot down.

In the afternoon enemy subs sunk DD Lamsom and placed one torpedo on CV Formidable.In addition of the heavy damages taken yesterday, she sunk.

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Post #: 101
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 1:02:46 PM   
George Patton


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April 21st , 1942

South Pac

Indomitable is at 69/79/36, at 6 kts and at 5 hexes from Suva. Maybe she will reach the Fijis.
CV Hornet will surely sunk. DD Waters, that was with her, left the crippled carrier and run towards Suva.
BB Prince of Wales is at 48/34/15, CA Dorsetshire at 35/48/29 and BC Repulse at 25/14/6.
I really pray for Indomitable.

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Post #: 102
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 1:47:15 PM   
veji1

 

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It hurts.. Whose stupid advice did you follow ??? 

Well you killed the 2 best CVs the Japs have until the Taiho, and Soryu and Kaga will need repair time.

You lost 3 US CVs and probably 2 RN CVs, maybe only one or none..

If the RN CVS survive, it is a victory.

If you lose the 2 of them, it starts to suck significantly.

The main thing here though is that until he gets the Unryus, you have cut in half his KB by killing or hurting 4 flattops. This means that your LBA is now a big deterrent. Death Star can deal with the LBA, but a 4 CVs TF is very vulnerable to a random 1000lb bomb.

All in all, it is a tactical defeat but strategically you have seriously blunted his ability to roam freely for the next months (considering Soryu must be damaged enough to not be operationnal for 3 months or so counting ferrying time to Japan). By the time he has more assets, your LBA will be strong and in late 1943 you will have many toys to punish him with...

You just have to be patient now...

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Post #: 103
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 2:42:22 PM   
George Patton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

It hurts.. Whose stupid advice did you follow ???

Well you killed the 2 best CVs the Japs have until the Taiho, and Soryu and Kaga will need repair time.

You lost 3 US CVs and probably 2 RN CVs, maybe only one or none..

If the RN CVS survive, it is a victory.

If you lose the 2 of them, it starts to suck significantly.

The main thing here though is that until he gets the Unryus, you have cut in half his KB by killing or hurting 4 flattops. This means that your LBA is now a big deterrent. Death Star can deal with the LBA, but a 4 CVs TF is very vulnerable to a random 1000lb bomb.

All in all, it is a tactical defeat but strategically you have seriously blunted his ability to roam freely for the next months (considering Soryu must be damaged enough to not be operationnal for 3 months or so counting ferrying time to Japan). By the time he has more assets, your LBA will be strong and in late 1943 you will have many toys to punish him with...

You just have to be patient now...



I really hope to save the Indomitable. Anyway I'm happy to have hit Zuikaku and Shokaku. I think too that they are the best japs carriers.

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Post #: 104
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/22/2007 4:15:04 PM   
Feinder


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Well, I'll give you a hand for being bold.  I would have backed off of that battle, but frankly, you did better than I thought you would.  I had my a$s handed to me in a mega-CV battle like yours in my game vs. Erstad (in 10-42) .  6 USN CVs + 4 RN CVs + Hermes and LI.

On that fateful day, I lost 4 USN CVs and the 3 RN CVs, Sara and Wasp eventually surviving back to SF both with over 80 sys (down for a year).

For nothing.

Yes, I launched strikes.  Yes, about 150 bombers got thru to make their runs.

But not a single hit.  I never even scratched the paint.

We ran it again for grins, and it was a fairly even exchange (I think we both lost 6 flight decks), which chalks up as Allied victory.  But I saw no reason to ask Erstad to relinquish his victory.  It was just really, colossally sh1tty luck for me.  But sometimes you do roll snake-eyes twice in a row.  And that game continues (I’m actually “sufficiently pleased” with the over-all situation, despite my lack of flight decks, and his surplus).

My advice to you is, just make sure your surviving flight decks survive.  If you can get Indy to Fiji great (frankly, I give her even odds).  But once she’s there, be wary of the follow up strike.  Not so much from KB, but from a mega-bombardment TF that can very easily dispatch her will she tries to pump the water out in port.  So do what you have to do guarantee her safety from bombardment TFs (if she makes it to Fiji).

Head up.  Keep going.  You’re off better than I was by far.  LBA will be your sword and shield for the next year.  Make all those little Sea-bee units earn their combat pay – build bases for your 4e bombers, and crater anything within 14 hexes.

-F-


< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/22/2007 4:16:54 PM >


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Post #: 105
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/23/2007 3:58:38 AM   
erstad

 

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My memory's foggy on the details, but on the original battle didn't I get lucky (or you unlucky) on the exact engagement range - was it maybe 5 hexes where you didn't get any escort? IIRC, the re-run wasn't an exact "flap a butterfly wing in the Indian Ocean and see what happens", it was a "Gee, what would have happened if this group of TFs was just one hex over."

Either way, you're right about the luck aspect. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good :-) And multi-day turns really make the carrier battles lop-sided, because on day 2 (or 3) the loser has little or no CAP (combination of losses and/or closed flight decks) and the victors LBA or naval air has a field day. Same thing happened to me in the game with Aztez, only in reverse. I lost the first exchange in a big CV battle, but still had a lot of assets left. Next day, many new reefs.

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Post #: 106
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/23/2007 4:19:25 AM   
Feinder


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On that fateful day, yes, my CVs actually reacted into range your LBA.  Your LBA strikes were inconsequetional, but did down/disrupt some of my fighters.  We set the destination hex one hex over (I'm not sure if they still reacted or not, but it was farther over so that if they did react, it wouldn't be within range) - there were no strikes by LBA, and it was a fairly even exchange.

Erstad's game is my attempt at, "How to commit every blunder in the book, and still not actually lose by auto-victory.  It's a "learning experience".  Yeah, that's it, a "learning experience".

And you have a turn in your in-box my mildly senile friend...

:^)

-F- 

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/23/2007 4:20:56 AM >


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Post #: 107
RE: Battle of the Ellice - 8/23/2007 12:14:30 PM   
George Patton


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April 22nd , 1942

South Pac

The Hornet sunk this morning. Capt Marc Mitscher went down with her.
CV Indomitable is at 88 flt, and still 3 hexes from Suva. I’m continuing pray. The other ships reached safely the port.
Saratoga and Yorktown will sail tomorrow, and will move to Pago-Pago, to avoid an eventual naval bombardement by the japs.

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Post #: 108
RE: Save the Indomitable! - 8/23/2007 3:48:00 PM   
George Patton


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April 23rd , 1942

South Pac

I-173 sunk a damaged AK north of Suva, with troops of an aviation regiment on board. The rest of the convoys, 3 Aks, have already unloaded.
This attack save, for the moment, Indomitable. But the carrier is still one hex from Suva harbor, and has 97 floating..... In addition one enemy sub has been spotted in the same hex.
I’ve ordered three massive ASW TFs to go out from Suva and hunt the hunter.

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Post #: 109
RE: Indomitable sunk! - 8/24/2007 9:04:19 AM   
George Patton


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April 24th , 1942

South Pac

CV Indomitable sunk directly in the Suva bay. Now part of the deck is visible from the land.
This is the end of a disastrous battle. I really hoped to obtain something better.
5 carriers lost and no enemy carrier sunk yet!

Indian Ocean

A convoy, escorted by CLAA Van Heemskerck and DD Isaac Sweers, directed to Akyab, has been attacked by japs aviation that

China

3’500 japs and 1’400 chinese died today during a japs assault against Yenan. The fort is reduced to 6.


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Post #: 110
RE: Indomitable sunk! - 8/25/2007 2:53:43 AM   
George Patton


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April 25th , 1942

China

I lost Yenan today: 65’525 chinese have been captured!! Ouch!

South Pac

I still don’t know about the fate of Shokaku and Zuikaku. The intelligence screen didn’t mention the name of the two best japanese carriers as sunk.


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Post #: 111
RE: Indomitable sunk! - 8/26/2007 11:10:20 PM   
George Patton


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Intelligence reports (a.k.a. as Chuck's mail), said that both, CV Zuikaku and CV Shokaku, have been scuttled.
This give the result as a 2-5 in favor of Japan. Anyway it's always better than a 0-5....

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Post #: 112
RE: Indomitable sunk! - 8/27/2007 2:54:39 AM   
Feinder


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2-5 is certainly a clear win for him.  But it's not a huge loss for you.  If it was 3-5, I'd have called it only slightly in his favor.

Either way, as I said before, LBA is your sword and shield now.

-F-

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Post #: 113
RE: Indomitable sunk! - 8/29/2007 6:35:48 AM   
zhengxuacmilan

 

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hi George

In my opionion, a CV combat on Apr 42 is not very wise, especially your TFs were out of the land-based aircraft help. But I would say a 2:5 score is not very bad, also CV Soryo and some japanese ships were damaged. I may earn times to build up your defense in South Pacific. Then in 1943, after your CVs are rebuilt, the KB, without its best 2 CVs, will feel its powerless.

good luck

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Post #: 114
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/2/2007 11:55:50 PM   
George Patton


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April 26th - 28th , 1942

I’m sending aviation units to south Pacific, in order to build up air defense.
On the 28th my DDs seriously damaged I-19 east of Suva.
BC Repulse and DD Scout, both damaged, are returning to Sidney, where 3 Ars are waiting for them.
Prince of Wales has still 8 of floating and then will also sail to Sidney.


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Post #: 115
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/6/2007 6:45:49 PM   
George Patton


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April 29th - 30th , 1942

Cent Pac

On 30th I-173 torpedoed AS Griffin west of Suva, heading to Noumea.

China

In Sian and Honan, jap aviation is very active and my troops are suffering heavy losses.


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Post #: 116
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/6/2007 7:16:58 PM   
George Patton


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May 1st, 1942

Ok. The Zero bonus it’s over. And I can now upgrade british squadron.
Everywhere in India british bomber squadrons are upgrading to Wellington, fighter squadron to Hurricane and torpedo squadron to Swordfish or Beaufort.

In China I organized a LRCAP over Sian, managed by 1. and 2. Squadron AVG. 3rd Squadron will remain in reserve in Lanchow.

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Post #: 117
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/9/2007 11:19:28 AM   
George Patton


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May 1st, 1942

China

The AVG was ready to fight the enemy bombers over Sian. However, only 13 P-40 were on CAP, but they shot down three enemy planes.

South Pac

RO-67 received 5 hits by my destroyers and is left on fire.


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Post #: 118
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/12/2007 10:50:48 PM   
George Patton


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May 2nd, 1942

SO Pac

Jap’s sub I-7 has been damaged by my ASW ships west of Suva.

China

AVG ambushed enemy planes over Sian, again: 11 bombers and 4 enemy fighters shot down. No P-40 lost.

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Post #: 119
RE: Keep down the Rising Sun! Pat vs Chuck - allied - 9/22/2007 8:14:14 PM   
George Patton


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May 3rd – 5th , 1942

The only important thing happened in three days, is a torpedo launched by a jap’s sub, that hit DD Waters, SW of Pago-Pago. The destroyer is at 62/80/42 and is now heading to Pago-Pago at 7 kts.




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