A wish list

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A wish list - 9/4/2007 2:43:51 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Hi Capn !

Flashpoint Germany is one of the best games I've ever played (and my "career" as wargamer is twenty-five years long ...). I'm totally immersed in it, to the point that spontaneously come to my mind ideas on new planning tools, which I think could be useful. They are the following.

1) A numeric visualization of the overall field of fire
It is simply the number of in-map units that can fire at a square with their main weapon. Or better, the number of antitank weapons that can hit a square with direct fire. Such a visualization of the field of fire is useful for finding weak spots in the battle array.

2) Orders issued by drag and drop
Each time the player drop the unit counter, a waypoint is placed on the map. But, most important of all, the counter remains at the final drop: if necessary, along the path is placed a shaded icon/counter that shows the position reached by the unit at the end of the following turn, if the destination is more than one turn away from the starting position. The procedure can be iterated many times, for different units, so the map shows the initial and final position of several units. If the clutter is excessive, the player can reset the drag-and-drop visualization (or, better, part of it), but all the waypoints are mantained. Great care is necessary for avoiding clutter or reducing it to a minimum. For example, the icons/counters at the initial and intermediate positions should be trasparent; the paths could be differentiate for color and trait (color for formations, and trait for units in the same formation).

3) A colored overlay for ground elevation and coverage
The numeric form is not only difficult to read (the numbers are very small), but it doesn't portrait an "at a glance" visualization of such valuable features of the ground.

4) Notes on the map
A trasparent map layer for writing notes and sketching movement paths, firing positions, terrain features and the like. This layer can be added to or removed from the map as the player wishes. It is useful for reminding tactical decisions in PBEM games, where a player usually has to wait one o more days before each turn.

I hope you are already working on them.

Cheers,

Steel Rat

Post #: 1

RE: A wish list - 9/4/2007 5:23:55 PM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

Steel Rat,

Some very good ideas there. I told the head honcho to look it over. Here are my comments.

1. I really like this one. More of a reverse LOS/LOF. Perhaps an option right click and select a square and get a list of weapons that "could" fire on the location.

2. I sorta understand this one. You are looking to see where units will be in the future based on the path they are following. Would this replace the preview move? I think we dumped preview in the new game but this would be a replacement of sorts. Would need to be unit selectable or by HQ to see groups in motion. Coupled with item 4 this could be a cool tool.

3. The new maps are less pretty (ie not hand drawn) but have the terrain elevations colored which should help see the lay of the land better.

4. I really like this one. I think the military folks would too as a training tool. This may not be in the initial release given the late hour but It will surely be folded in to the first major update.

Thanks for the inputs. We are always listening. On the play side have you played the White Star/Red Star Scenarios one of testers made? A good beating in those.

Enjoy the battles.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)

Post #: 2

RE: A wish list - 9/6/2007 3:18:08 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Capn,

Your positive attitude encourages me to continue, so today I've performed an intense brainstorming session.

"1. I really like this one. More of a reverse LOS/LOF. Perhaps an option right click and select a square and get a list of weapons that "could" fire on the location."

The numeric map overlay gives the overall field of fire, while the right click option shows the information concerning the square. The latter is a very useful source of information. I think it should give the number of weapons (not units, for taking into account the posture), accuracy (or better, the mean chance of hitting targets in the square, if available) and the rate of fire (if of concern). There should be two number for each data: one for the actual value, the other for the best one (for example, no. of weapons that can hit the target given the actual conditions / no. of weapons that could hit the target if all the conditions were at the best).

A lot of data, I agree, but I think that, in general, each information should not only inform about a specific issue (LOS, ammo, fatigue, morale, SOP, ...), but also provide insight into the unit's/formation's condition. This because the decisional process is a complex task that requires a lot of different information, so for the player getting most of them together in a concise and effective way is not an option, but a need.

A player should notice that something is going wrong mainly by an analysis of the battle (not only its outcome but, better, its expected outcome), rather than scrolling UDPs and cycling through the information displays. For example, if 20 platforms are in range for hitting a target, but only a few of them can fire at it with a poor chance of hit, the player could realize that there is a problem that needs attention (posture, ammo, morale, fatigue, rules of engagement, ...).

"2. I sorta understand this one. You are looking to see where units will be in the future based on the path they are following. Would this replace the preview move? I think we dumped preview in the new game but this would be a replacement of sorts. Would need to be unit selectable or by HQ to see groups in motion. Coupled with item 4 this could be a cool tool."

The preview move is a useful tool, but it shoul be more flexible (pause, rewind, number of units observed in preview mode), last more turns, and give more information (showing a dynamic overlay of LOS, spottable range or field of fire). A player should be allowed to pause it and change the waypoints "on the fly", and see immediately the effect of each change. Yes, a challenging task for the programmers, but a very powerful planning tool for the players.

New inputs:

5. A warning overlay
Units in trouble are highlighted. A unit is "in trouble" when ammo, morale or fatigue is below the threshold value set by the player, or it is out of the command range.

6. More than 3 waypoints

7. A SOP overlay

8. An incremental overlay
For displaying the increase/decrease of ammo, morale and fatigue occured during the last turn.

9. An entry list for the vehicles database

10. SOP with conditional statements (�If � then ��)
For example:
- If unit/formation XX retreat, then retreat (or keep relative position)
- If enemy tank, then retreat
- If hit chance below 20%, then hold fire
- �

Do you need more imputs ?

"On the play side have you played the White Star/Red Star Scenarios one of testers made? A good beating in those."

I'll play them, sure !

Steel Rat

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 3

RE: A wish list - 9/7/2007 2:42:01 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

Steel Rat,

More good inputs.
1. The balance here will be info vs space. The idea would be to have enough info for a player to get an idea of firepower on target if all things are optimal (too many variables involved to list a spectrum of results and info overload is a bad thing too). The new game engine already has a popup for each square showing units, terrain, location, etc. It wouldn't be a stretch to add projected firepower if enemy units are in the square. Again I'll have to run all of this past Rob.

2. I think we are talking the difference between a VCR function to allow replay and disection of the turn and a preview move type function that basically shows the traffic pattern of your forces. We are looking at the VCR function for post mortum functionality (something the military folks want). The preview thing will take some discussion to figure out the most useful tool.

5. As commander the best you could hope for is to understand the com traffic you are getting with respect to the situation of your forces. I would have to say an artifical highlight of "troubled" units may be a handy thing for new players or admins (military version) to see these items more in realtime. Perhaps a filter on the TOC messages so you could review "critical" feeds at the end of the turn.

6. This has been bantered around for a while. More points would basically override the forces calculated move path and force it to follow the exact path you as the player would like. In the future it would be nice to get more of a phase line/corridor function that could be drawn on the map. Some games use this style now. Again we try to focus on the upper level command of the game and force the micromanagement of making each unit move to a specific point and shoot at tank #4 with AP, etc, etc. This may frustrate some folks, but in thses games you are the high HQ, not the tank driver or gunner.

7. The new game has a refined and more streamlined SOP editor in it which may resolve this item. There is also a tab ion the UDP to show current SOP state.

8. An interesting idea, but doesn't #5 already cover this in an overview sort of way. Perhaps a line in the sit-reps showing last state will allow for this comparison.

9. The new game has editors for just about everything. Data (units, vehicals, weapons, etc), maps, and scenarios all have editors and the map graphics and units sils can all be modifed. We want folks to make new scenarios, maps and campaigns with the basic tools.

10. The SOP is a bit more basic then if then percentage but it does give units enough posture options.

We'll always take inputs.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)

Post #: 4

RE: A wish list - 9/12/2007 1:09:20 AM

IronManBeta

Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline

Hi Carlo - thanks for all the comments. I have made a fix for the 'turn preview reveals enemy units' bug and will get that up and soon as I can.

I will spend some more time looking at the design suggestions you make and am particularly interested in the command graphics ideas. I tried to work up a spec for that a year or so ago but gave up when it came to figuring out the nitty gritty details. Creating a usable interface this way sounds appealing but is harder than it looks! I"m not a big graphics code guru either although I certainly know more than then when I started, lol.

The idea though of creating little 'post it notes' to drop on the map as memory aids is a terrific one and *might* not be hard to do at all. I can see a lot of value in that even if you can't do any of the other graphic overlay elements.

Right now Jim and I are hard at work getting FPME ready for beta testing but if I can slip some of this in or other ideas generated by your comments I will sure try! Thanks for the input and happy gaming.

(in reply to carlo.remino)

Post #: 5

RE: A wish list - 9/13/2007 7:31:22 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Capn,

Thank you for your reply.

"9. The new game has editors for just about everything. Data (units, vehicals, weapons, etc), maps, and scenarios all have editors and the map graphics and units sils can all be modifed. ..."

Sorry for the improper words I used in the ninth input: not an "entry list", but an "index" for accessing directly to the unit one wants to know.

Soon I'm going to fire a broadside of questions. Prepare yourself !

(in reply to IronManBeta)

Post #: 6

RE: A wish list - 9/13/2007 7:40:47 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Hi Robert !

"I have made a fix for the 'turn preview reveals enemy units' bug and will get that up and soon as I can. "

Great !

"I will spend some more time looking at the design suggestions you make ...
... if I can slip some of this in or other ideas generated by your comments I will sure try!"

I have no words ... If you need a playtester, you have found your man. I am at your disposal, Sir.

(in reply to IronManBeta)

Post #: 7

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 1:09:16 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

Carlo,

We should be grabbing new testers near the end of the month so stay tuned in.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)

Post #: 8

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:36:08 PM

James Sterrett

Posts: 1619
Joined: 7/7/2004
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Notes on the map is a great thing - especially if the graphics then imply orders to units.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 9

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:41:46 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Hi Capn !

I've worked on the drag&drop solution (# 2), and the result is the following.

I've converted the following picture:

[image][/image]

[continue 1/4]

Attachment (1)

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 10

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:48:59 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

...

into this new one:

SEE PICTURE

I've had to reduce the size of the picture, so some details are not visible (for example, the colored border of the counters).

The shaded counters are the units at their starting position.

The circles show the waypoints. All the waypoints can be moved and edited at any time. I've used numbers for marking the subunits, but now I think that should be used letters. In fact, numbers are useful when there is the need to collapse more waypoints into one, to reduce the clutter. The number should indicate how many waypoints are represented by the summarizing waypoint.

[continue 2/4]

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(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 11

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:51:51 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

...

By a list, ...

SEE PICTURE

[continue 3/4]

Attachment (1)

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 12

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:54:28 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

...

... the player may decide which units show on the map.

SEE PICTURE

This morning, during the breakfast (!), I've imagined a more complex situation, a situation in which the clutter could be excessive. But I've devised a simple solution too: a zoom option. By the zoom, the player enlarges the map so that each square can contain up to 4 counters and/or 16 waypoints side by side. I'm going to work on this idea during the weekend.

Cheers,

Carlo

[4/4]

Attachment (1)

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 13

RE: A wish list - 9/14/2007 3:59:51 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
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If you wish, I can send you the original pictures (about 700 kB each).

Carlo

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 14

RE: A wish list - 9/15/2007 2:37:48 AM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

James,

As deep as we are on the 2.0 engine right now we are looking at what it would take to add the "simple" overlay where players could "mark up" the map and save it. We can look at a more interactive map editor in 2.1. The task of converting on map lines to unit level orders that make since or even grab/effect the correct units in question could be daunting, but we love a challenge.

We should be getting a new beta out for the new games toward the end of the month if all goes well.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to James Sterrett)

Post #: 15

RE: A wish list - 9/17/2007 3:05:09 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

Hi Capn !

As I told you, the last weekend I amused myself thinking about a possible solution for a zoom option.

The result is the following.

In the picture below (due to the small size, some details are lost), at the lower right the traffic is so heavy that in two squares (30-08, 30-09) the situation is summarized with collapsed waypoints. The latin numbers show how many waypoints are represented by the summarizing ones.

[1/2]

Attachment (1)

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 16

RE: A wish list - 9/17/2007 3:07:25 PM

carlo.remino

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline

The zoom enlarges a portion of the map, so that all the units and waypoints in a square can stand side by side. Again, the waypoints can be edited and moved in the zoom map at any time, as in the normal map.

I feel as a would-be game designer ...

[2/2]