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mods and maps - 9/20/2007 5:59:27 AM   
hvymtl13


Posts: 214
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		I have been looking through the add-on maps and mods so I'm wondering is there any of these that are more standardized? For like pbem games and such. I know CHS is one of the more prominent add on mods to the game. But was looking at Andrew Browns maps and they are really good. So does this affect pbem games? I would think it does. What are the most widely used mods and maps? Do I need to specify what maps I'm using for e-mail games?

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RE: mods and maps - 9/20/2007 6:06:45 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		The maps themselves are just window dressing for your enjoyment...if you are going to be playing a modified scenario, they will dictate what map configuration you will need (stock or extended map) but there are a few 'looks' of the maps to choose from.

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(in reply to hvymtl13)
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RE: mods and maps - 9/20/2007 1:35:40 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I understand your question. There are two versions of Andrew Brown's map: the extended map (with Panama and Aden), and the un-extended map. CHS requires AB's map, you can't play CHS without it (although you can play on AB's map without CHS). I think nowadays it must be the extended map, which is IMO much better anyway.

Both maps are the same for single player and PBEM. No difference.

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RE: mods and maps - 9/21/2007 5:20:22 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		Well, AB's extended map is the Standard for most mods, Ahem...Big B 1.4 is the best mod all around for air/naval combat and a reasonable OOB for both sides, of course I could be a bit prejudice.

But seriously, Nik Mod is aimed primarily at air combat,
CHS is aimed primarily at OOB
RHS is its own animal
B-Mod was aimed at fixing OOB in a reasonable/historical way, and really aimed at fixing air and naval combat.

There are several others that aim at alternative history

B



< Message edited by Big B -- 9/21/2007 5:45:28 AM >

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Post #: 4
RE: mods and maps - 9/21/2007 7:27:43 AM   
TOMLABEL


Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Big B 1.4 is the best mod all around for air/naval combat and a reasonable OOB for both sides
B





Here, here!

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Post #: 5
RE: mods and maps - 9/23/2007 2:59:14 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Well, AB's extended map is the Standard for most mods, Ahem...Big B 1.4 is the best mod all around for air/naval combat and a reasonable OOB for both sides, of course I could be a bit prejudice.

But seriously, Nik Mod is aimed primarily at air combat,
CHS is aimed primarily at OOB
RHS is its own animal
B-Mod was aimed at fixing OOB in a reasonable/historical way, and really aimed at fixing air and naval combat.

There are several others that aim at alternative history

B




Nikmod addresses Air Combat, OOB issues, naval combat, ASW combat, and land combat indirectly in certain situations. users get a free rubber duckie too.





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RE: mods and maps - 9/23/2007 3:47:23 AM   
hvymtl13


Posts: 214
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		nik- Adress those things in what way?

And as I was trying but failing to say in my first post was: I'm sure two players would need to run the same mod obviously, but do the maps have any effect on this if they differ?

Thanks for the input on the various mods available. Seems we have a few out there to choose from. Not knowing what works best is just a matter of guesswork I think. Like are the ship belt armor ratings changed? gun sizes changed? I have no idea what is "fixed" in them..

< Message edited by hvymtl13 -- 9/23/2007 3:48:44 AM >

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RE: mods and maps - 9/23/2007 4:01:55 AM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:


nik- Adress those things in what way?


yikes.....got an hour?

I'll go with the condensed version:

Air combat - reduces overall bloodiness. attempts to better represent the strengths and weaknesses between Japanese and Allied 1st generation aircraft.

Flak - much deadlier against aircraft when concentrated. Helps deter the standard 24/7 6,000 foot blitz.

Naval combat - 1st generation tinclad cruiser types are no longer immune to <6inch size naval weapons at close range. This means DD's no longer have to rely soley on their torpedoes against even C class British cruisers or 1st generation Treaty CA's. IJN AA was decreased in effectiveness, aided in part by making Allied dive bombers more evasive to Japanese flak

OOB - did a number of OOB fixes and corrections. example - IJN CA turret armor.....another was the famous PC-101 class for the IJN which had double the # of DC's it's supposed to have making it an uber escort.

ASW combat - Have made it harder for ASW equipped platforms to successfully locate and attack subs. The new routine makes sinkings alot harder, but it was still far too easy to find and batter the subs. A damaged sub is as useful as a sunk one.

Land combat - Mainly scenario driven. Modified the setup in the grand campaign for the SRA to make it less easily defensible. Also reduced some airbase sizes in Burma/India area.

Scenario 9.2 Grand campaign and 42A also have an experimental Japanese air economy which is less easy to expand and diverisfy. (normal scenarios are 9.2b and 42A (b version))

Experimental Nikmod - A version with an experimental Aviation support system (much much reduced Av squads) to reduce ability to service aircraft in huge numbers. 2E aircraft that carry torpedo (japanese) as default weapon have experimental loadout to increase their ability against land bases. Stock default is a mere 2 x 250kg and 1 x 250kg at extended range.

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RE: mods and maps - 9/23/2007 4:27:05 AM   
Big B

 

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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:


nik- Adress those things in what way?


yikes.....got an hour?

I'll go with the condensed version: . . .

At least I'm not resorting to threatening a poor defenseless rubber ducky

But for the original question, I'm sure they are all worth a look I also believe they all have rather extended design notes available for the curious to read. One last note - I also think they are all an improvement in some way on stock.

B

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Post #: 9
RE: mods and maps - 9/27/2007 8:01:12 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brian,

I am contemplating starting a new campaign.  I last used your version 3.  What is the difference between 3 and 4?

Thanks...



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Post #: 10
RE: mods and maps - 9/27/2007 11:11:46 AM   
Tofke


Posts: 171
Joined: 11/9/2005
From: Moeskroen (Bel)
Status: offline 		Don't forget my mod Tofke_photo_mod 1.09 available on spooky


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=985445&mpage=1&key=tofke

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RE: mods and maps - 9/27/2007 9:41:30 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Brian,

I am contemplating starting a new campaign. I last used your version 3. What is the difference between 3 and 4?

Thanks...



Hi John,

Just got back in town from Omaha Nebraska (feel like I just visited the USA instead of the People's Rep of California ) and turned on the pc for the first time in a few days.
OK, the difference between 1.31 and 1.4 is basically this (hope this does it justice).
Naval - more or less the same as 1.31 - though ship stats and armament specs have been revisited for ROF, etc.
Land OOB - more or less the same as 1.31 - except that PI Army units are less experienced again, and China has had it's overall supply level decreased significantly. Players were noting that the Chinese had too much supply before, which enabled them to be too aggressive. I toned down Chinese 'at start' supply and daily supply - they still have a lot more supply than stock model, but their army is much bigger than stock as well. I think this will put a nice balance in it.
I should also add that the West Coast USA infrastructure has been vastly increased.
Air - BIG changes. 1) Flak Gap has been addressed so all guns smaller than 80mm flak will shoot from the deck to 25,000'. All hvy AA will still shoot to 30,000'+ - so there is no area of coverage missing. Also, all base units will 'grow' 50% more light AAA as the game progresses - making low level attacks more dangerous to the attacker (they will increase as fast as production and supply allows). Furthermore, ALL fighters have gotten a relative increase in maneuverability - this gives them increased survivability without adding durability and screwing up all the balances that go along with that. (I noticed during testing that Nates and Oscars really benefited from this - they are no longer useless in 1942....there is a fine line between making fighters survivable and at the same time not making attack aircraft too vulnerable). The Grumman F4F-3 now has better guns than the F4F-4 (to simulate the 90% more ammo available - though the F4F-4 still has a better 'barrage' of fire). Also, American 4E Hvy Bmbrs have had armor level reduced to 1 as in stock (players said they couldn't shoot any down) and - are much reduced in replacement rate until late 1943 - this will keep the Mighty 8th AF from showing up early in the war. AVG and 23rd FG are rolled into one entity (The Flying Tigers - since neither existed simultaneously, and both were known by that name historically). The P-40N-1CU is in the game for some units (the last P-40 fighter model) and the P-51B is available too. Japanese fighter upgrades have been reworked and are more logical. More allied photo-reccon units added early on.
Data Base errors cleaned up (many exist in stock WitP)

I would finish by saying 1.4 is a much sounder and better playing game for the long haul than 1.31 (though that was still a vast improvement over stock).... and you get beautiful new aircraft graphics thanks to Cathartes!

If that doesn't convince you...play PacWar!

Brian

< Message edited by Big B -- 9/27/2007 10:15:09 PM >

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Post #: 12
RE: mods and maps - 10/2/2007 9:47:14 AM   
hvymtl13


Posts: 214
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		If you install the mods do they kill your save games? If so I will have to wait for this campaign to play out. to much time and planning to scrap it now.
Thanks

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Post #: 13
RE: mods and maps - 10/2/2007 6:29:44 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		hvymtl13 - I think the easiest way to answer your question is to cover some of the basics. There are several types of mods

1. Graphical mods (maps & art)
a) maps - maps are graphical representations, but are tied to a database (I believe)
1) Maps that are stock compatible - some maps are simply different representations of whats in the database, for example there are some that are in black and white, or contain additional information about the resources at a given base. These are compatible with stock. Subchasers Map is a good example of this type.
2) Maps that are not stock compatible - some maps have taken on the challenge of tying to more accurately represent the geographic features of the pacific. Andrew Browns map (AB Map) is a notable example of this type. The correlation between the map and the underlying database is not the same as stock. The hexes literally have different numbers. Many of the mods use this map though
b) art mods and files - these are changes to the art files (ship and plane sides and tops). Fremen, CobraAus, Rogue, Tofke and many, many others have done some excellent work on the art. As I type this I am wondering if these need to be specific to a mod. OOB changes could require different art and I know that witp will crash if it looks for an art file and can't find it. However, I do know that it is possible for PBEM opponents to use different art files.

2. Database mods - Just too much to get into in this categoryf. Basically database mods are just that, folks have altered the database to try and achieve different outcomes. Some mods can work togehter like CHS and NikMod.

My two games I have going are.
1. Stock 1.806 with Tofke art and subchasers map
2. CHS (ver?) with Nikmod, standard art, but with ABs map. I believe ABs extended map is required for the CHS/Nikmod

As a last thought, when selecting mods and art, I would start with what database mod if any you want to run (Stock, CHS, RHS, NikMod, others) and that will to some extent dictate what maps and art files you can use.

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Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

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Post #: 14
RE: mods and maps - 10/2/2007 6:31:21 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

If you install the mods do they kill your save games? If so I will have to wait for this campaign to play out. to much time and planning to scrap it now.
Thanks

You can sometimes switch out maps and art files, but you can't go from stock to RHS. Often database mods are best done as separate installs IMO, but that's a whole other can o' worms.

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Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

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Post #: 15
RE: mods and maps - 10/3/2007 7:54:22 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brian,
Thanks for the info.  I'll PM you if I decide to give it a shot.
John



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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 16
RE: mods and maps - 10/4/2007 1:45:10 AM   
hvymtl13


Posts: 214
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline 		Ok well let me just ask what is the best single player mod around for campaigns? Campaigns are where I get most fun from the game. A little more control overall. I work offshore alot and away from home so pbem would be a secondary consideration. I'm not sure if any of the mods are able to adjust AI jap reactions or intiatives. I'm sure they all are good in diff ways. Which one fits best on single player campaigns though?

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