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Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 4:27:44 PM   
dogancan

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: Ankara - Turkey
Status: offline 		Hi,

I have decided to buy a couple of books on military tactics, which may offer information on operational, tactical and strategical levels.

On Naval warfare, I have decided to buy Harpoon 2 offical strategy guide. I think it includes not only the information about the game, but offers basics of naval warfare, and a good collection of naval warfare equipment. And it is REALLY cheap as second hand. (by the way, I am also trying to decide which Harpoon to buy: ANW or HCCE. suggestions? :) )

But about the land and aerial theatre, I have no idea which book(s) to buy. I don't want to spend more than a hundred dolars, and preferably less, since it is just a hobby for me. Any suggestions of books?

I checked "Dslyecxi’s Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures Guide for Armed Assault" but it seems to focus on the PC game 'Armed Assault', rather than offering generic information.

please give some advice!!!




< Message edited by dogancan -- 9/28/2007 4:29:30 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 4:38:26 PM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		Well, Rommels 'infantry attacks' is a good read.

(in reply to dogancan)
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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 4:50:47 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Well, Rommels 'infantry attacks' is a good read.


That covers company level tactics, doesn't it? Not really the scale for TOAW III.

I found Lost Victories made me play more flexibly.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 3
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 5:45:46 PM   
Karri

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Well, Rommels 'infantry attacks' is a good read.


That covers company level tactics, doesn't it? Not really the scale for TOAW III.

I found Lost Victories made me play more flexibly.


Tactics nevertheless, and it's a good read.

But anyways, it does have some points that do help.

< Message edited by Karri -- 9/28/2007 5:49:03 PM >

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 4
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 6:18:29 PM   
Jeff Norton


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/8/2000
From: MD, USA (You're not cleared for specifics...)
Status: offline 		I've found Martin Van Creveld's books to be a good source, along with Greenfield's "Command Decisions".

I heard Overy's "Why the Allies won" is a good primer on Ike's/Marshal/Churchill's plan for the ETO. I may need to find it.

Heck, even "On War" is a good insight to the operational art.

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Veritas Vos Liberabit
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(in reply to Karri)
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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 6:41:07 PM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		The pocket version of Sun Tzu's Art of War is a good read for general strategic thought.

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 9/28/2007 6:42:32 PM >

(in reply to Jeff Norton)
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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 6:52:41 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton

I've found Martin Van Creveld's books to be a good source,


God that man makes me angry. I'm sure somewhere in all the polemic he may have some sort of point- but before I get to it he always makes some insane and unsupported assertion which makes me throw the book across the room.

quote:

I heard Overy's "Why the Allies won" is a good primer on Ike's/Marshal/Churchill's plan for the ETO. I may need to find it.


Overy's thesis as I understand it is that the allies won by weight of materiel. I'm not sure there's much operational stuff in there.

quote:

Heck, even "On War" is a good insight to the operational art.


Dunno. On War's very theoretical, and the more specific sections are a little dated. I suppose Clausewitz does have some important things to say about proportionality which are relevant to TOAW III.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Jeff Norton)
Post #: 7
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 6:55:50 PM   
golden delicious


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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

The pocket version of Sun Tzu's Art of War is a good read for general strategic thought.


I don't want to sound like I'm just trashing everyone else's suggestions- but to me Sun Tzu just seemed to be the Art of the Bleeding Obvious. It was revolutionary 2,500 years ago. If you already know to treat war as a serious, rational exercise and not to throw away any advantage for expediency, then you don't really have much to gain from Sun Tzu. Also, the book is full of obscure references to Chinese philosophy which don't have much to do with war.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 9/28/2007 6:58:06 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 8
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 7:07:43 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

The pocket version of Sun Tzu's Art of War is a good read for general strategic thought.


I don't want to sound like I'm just trashing everyone else's suggestions- but to me Sun Tzu just seemed to be the Art of the Bleeding Obvious. It was revolutionary 2,500 years ago. If you already know to treat war as a serious, rational exercise and not to throw away any advantage for expediency, then you don't really have much to gain from Sun Tzu.

No problem, nor offense taken, Ben. It's just that when you deal with the public on a daily basis, you come to realize that common sense is anything but. Not to mention common courtesy, but that's a whole 'nuther story...

Anyhow, like I told Richard in a reply about units being out of supply, check (understand) the basic things first. This is where Sun Tzu is helpful, by providing a generalized framework of common sense, strategic objectivity and decision making - the kind of pre-thought that needs to go into every game that you play.

< Message edited by JAMiAM -- 9/28/2007 7:09:30 PM >

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 9
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 8:02:01 PM   
Boonierat


Posts: 539
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: The Boonies
Status: offline 		If you don't mind reading online you can try Historical perspectives of the operational art over at CMH:
http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/OpArt/index.htm

< Message edited by Boonierat -- 9/28/2007 8:04:18 PM >

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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 10:48:30 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		In addition to Sun Tzu's Art of the Bleeding Obvious,

The Art of Maneuver: Maneuver-Warfare Theory and AirLand Battle by Robert Leonard is entertaining.

The Nature of the Operations of Modern Armies by V. K. Triandafillov (the father (?) of operativnoe iskusstvo) is fascinating.

Best wishes,


< Message edited by shunwick -- 9/28/2007 10:50:38 PM >

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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/28/2007 11:56:01 PM   
dogancan

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: Ankara - Turkey
Status: offline 		firstly, thank you to all who offered a number of books.

As I understand, there is no one comprehensive book, that includes the basics of strategic thinking, operational and tactical level information and some knowledge on the modern warfare equipments. I will probably buy 4-5 books as a beginning. One of which will be sun-tzu's. And also, I checked "The Art of Maneuver: Maneuver-Warfare Theory and AirLand Battle" and it seems good too.

But besides, I think I need to read some more on operational level. I find the "tactics 101" lectures on the armchairgeneral site very helpful. Are there any book that are similar to these?

Also, are there any affordable (say 50 dolars or so) encyclopedia or something about the modern warfare equipments (could be an entry level stuff)?

well, lastly, thanks again for all your responses.


(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 12
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/29/2007 1:59:17 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dogancan
. . . One of which will be sun-tzu's.


No need to purchase Sun-Tzu's Art of War. It is readily available on line. One link is:

http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to dogancan)
Post #: 13
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/29/2007 2:26:42 AM   
dogancan

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: Ankara - Turkey
Status: offline 		thanks, I start to read immediately!

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 14
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/29/2007 2:39:10 AM   
Karri

 

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline 		I'm reading Achtung Panzer by Heinz Guderian and it has some good points on armored warfare.

(in reply to dogancan)
Post #: 15
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/29/2007 9:08:14 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		dogancan,

The thing to remember is that there is no such thing as a Strategy or Operational Art cookbook. What you need to do is arm yourself with the intellectual tools that will help you to analyse any given situation. What I mean by that is that you need to develop a way of thinking about war.

All the books mentioned here won't give you answers (in the form if this happens then you need to do this or that) but they will help you to ask the right questions. When you know the questions to ask you will be able to think through to the answer.

I hope all that makes sense.

Best wishes,


_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to Karri)
Post #: 16
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 9/30/2007 8:05:25 PM   
dogancan

 

Posts: 189
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: Ankara - Turkey
Status: offline 		shunwick,

I think you are absoulately right. Though I will buy some books and read some stuff on internet, it will just help me to develop my strategies, not to teach me 'the right strategy'.

after all, that is why stategy is more of an art than an engineering practice.

thanks to all for their informative posts.

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 17
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 10/1/2007 4:39:35 AM   
L`zard


Posts: 362
Joined: 6/3/2005
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		@Dogancan:

Besides the internet in general, Myself would suggest your local library and it's regional attachments (call directory etc etc, ask your librarian)........

A limited funds personal library should contain those books you really wan't to be able to read while 'on the throne' eh?

From personal experience, one can buy many books that don't really help one's understanding of a specific topic, so buy only what ya need to have in order to remind yourself 'the next time' the question arises.

L`zard: too many books, not enough brains, LOL!

_____________________________

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Post #: 18
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 10/1/2007 9:51:40 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		I practically live in my local library.

Best wishes,


< Message edited by shunwick -- 10/2/2007 8:27:03 PM >

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

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Post #: 19
RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 10/20/2007 8:24:05 AM   
MikePalmer

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline 		Here's a standard for the operational art that you can access for free: http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/doctrine/genesis_and_evolution/source_materials/FM-100-5_operations.pdf

It's the U.S. Army's 1993 version of its field manual for operations. Quote: "The Army’s doctrine lies at the heart of its professional competence. It is the authoritative guide to how Army forces fight wars and conduct operations  other than war. As the Army’s keystone doctrine, FM 100-5 describes how the Army thinks about the conduct of operations. FM 100-5 undergirds all of the Army’s doctrine, organization, training, materiel, leader development, and soldier concerns."

_____________________________

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RE: Introductory Books on Land and/or Combat Tactics? - 10/22/2007 3:20:53 AM   
tblersch

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		Am I the only one here who's read Robert Citino?  Blitzkrieg to Desert Storm: The Evolution of Operational Warfare and The German Way of War are both excellent books.

(in reply to MikePalmer)
Post #: 21
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