Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule)

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Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule)

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule)

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Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 5:35:08 AM

murx

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

As noted in the Reinforcement tab in some scenarios units get withdrawn completly.
What happens to the equipment of those units?
If it just dissapears wouldn't it be possible to disband just them at the end of the prior turn? (and even if this is disabled one could divide/disband and/or attack for evaporation to 'keep' the equipment)
Maybe disbanding units should add to the force loss (and thus victory points) of the side disbanding the unit (or does this already happen?).

Post #: 1

RE: Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 10:56:38 AM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: murx

If it just dissapears wouldn't it be possible to disband just them at the end of the prior turn? (and even if this is disabled one could divide/disband and/or attack for evaporation to 'keep' the equipment)

Yes. But this would be considered gamey play.

quote:

Maybe disbanding units should add to the force loss (and thus victory points) of the side disbanding the unit (or does this already happen?).

Effectively, it does.

Simplified, loss penalty is the difference between the AP strength of the force currently in play and that of the force at the start of the scenario, scaled to the number of VPs in the scenario and multiplier by the force loss intolerance. So if you disband a unit your overall AP strength falls and the loss penalty goes up.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to murx)

Post #: 2

RE: Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 1:53:38 PM

murx

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
So if you disband a unit your overall AP strength falls and the loss penalty goes up.

But doesn't the same already happen once the unit is withdrawn? Since it is nowhere in the OOB anymore?

Since units regain strength through the inventory the loss penalty gets less - so the disbanded unit 'refills' the overall strength for the loss of the disbanded/withdrawn unit (which doesn't count anyway!).
So disbanding would (over the next turns with the inventory redistributed to other units) lessen the VP loss?

Agreed gamey play - but cannot be noticed from the other player (maybe a flag is needed to allow/disallow disbanding of units so players can only disband special flagged units?).

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 3

RE: Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 5:06:23 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: murx

But doesn't the same already happen once the unit is withdrawn? Since it is nowhere in the OOB anymore?

I don't think withdrawn units count toward the loss penalty. I forget the specifics, but I believe JAMiAM cleared this one up last time the loss penalty was discussed.

quote:

Since units regain strength through the inventory the loss penalty gets less - so the disbanded unit 'refills' the overall strength for the loss of the disbanded/withdrawn unit (which doesn't count anyway!).

Yeah. What's even more interesting is if you start out with a lot of empty equipment slots which fill out over the course of the scenario. This plays havoc with the loss penalty as the new equipment may cancel out any losses. I use this to good effect in my Poland scenario such that the Poles do not suffer loss penalty for losing the first 15-20 divisions, but do thereafter.

quote:

Agreed gamey play - but cannot be noticed from the other player

The fact is that there will never be a cheat-proof system for TOAW. At some point you are going to have to rely on the other guy being interested in having a fair match.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to murx)

Post #: 4

RE: Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 5:41:29 PM

murx

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline

Well, thanks for the clarification!

(in reply to golden delicious)

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RE: Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule) - 10/5/2007 6:21:13 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: murx
If it just dissapears wouldn't it be possible to disband just them at the end of the prior turn? (and even if this is disabled one could divide/disband and/or attack for evaporation to 'keep' the equipment)

I've suggested that withdrawing units take a "dip" into the on-hand equipment pool as they withdraw, to negate this cheat path (and it's sister path of using the unit as a kamakaze just before withdrawal).

(in reply to murx)

Post #: 6

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Question: Unit Withdrawal (per Reinforcement scedule)

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