RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question...

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 1:44:55 AM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

quote:

ORIGINAL:

... I�d say that most of the time the main driver for demo/no demo is resources and time available at the developer ... if it's relatively simple to make a (good) demo it'll most likely be done, while if it takes much extra effort = noticeable increase in cost even with some additional sales accounted for as a result of having a (good) demo it is more doubtful

A final parameter which is also most likely critical is the posibility to make demo that actually justifiy the game. IMHO a demo of WitP does not make much sense, as the game has almost infinte complexity, and a fair representation of that would be hard to present in a demo. On the other hand, a game like Flashpoint Germany which is both less complex and less complicated is a lot more straightforward in terms of producing a "good" demo = One scenario more or less can represent how the game works/plays

Thanks; I don't know if you realized it, but you actually answered my question

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Post #: 31

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 8:01:58 AM

wargamer123

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�No Demo means I will probably not purchase right now, so that's one lost sell. There are several people here trudging over the�purchase. That's at least $200...make that exponential to�several other People asking the same questions across other Bulletin Boards that's�$1000.00!�Yes, certianly there is more energy into making a demo, certianly a Fall of France Teaser as in Strategic Command's case only going to create addicts. You are losing Customers by not getting them addicted. I'm sorry to say A demo is the best advertisement in the World. I nolonger listen to all these magazines who have playtesters who have been either bought out or are pathetically behind in the Genre and will give you two thumbs up when it's not earned. In this Modern Industry, unless what you're selling has a reputation as in a Sequel or a precise engine in which it is modelled after you need to show the Potential Buyer what he may be getting into. So many Unhappy People these days feel betrayed by Pretty Boxes or faulty advertising. I rarely buy games anymore, and my resell rate is 95% of those that did not have Demos :)

P.S. From the positive feedback I've read in the AARs and those people who I personally know who've played the game I'd buy it.. However not based on the Advertisement aside from the pictures and Facts nor on the Magazine-Online Articles... Word Of Mouth is more powerful as is a Piece of the Pie than anything as is a piece of the pie

< Message edited by wargamer123 -- 10/2/2007 8:07:06 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 12:48:35 PM

IainMcNeil

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Without wanting to sound ungrateful $1,000 does not go a long way :)

It's less than a days running costs and a demo sure takes a lot longer than 1 day! But apart from that we don't feel its the type of game where you can give away a little without giving away too much. A bad demo can be much worse than no demo.

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Post #: 33

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 3:40:52 PM

Joe D.

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Admittedly, I rarely download demos as I'm still using dial-up, so most of my game choices are based on genre and the company making the software.

For example, after enjoying EU, I expected HoI was similar enough in concept to buy; if I liked one I will probably like the other. HoI2 was sold new @ $19.99 US, so I couldn't resist another purchase.

Besides, if I didn't like the game, I could always trade it in at an acceptable loss.

But here in the colonies, now that HDs are 160 plus GBs, PC games can be easilly saved in their entirerty on computers, so many retail stores no longer trade or deal in these discs; therfore, my purchases now have to be more selective.

CEaW seems a cross between HoI and PG, and I liked both; but w/high end real time PC sims, I'm not sure I want my gaming to go "retro."

But I will keep checking this forum as it is a perfect barometer of customer satisfaction, or the lack therof. And it's amazing how quickly this barometer can change after a few well-made patches!

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Post #: 34

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 5:02:21 PM

Happycat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Without wanting to sound ungrateful $1,000 does not go a long way :)

It's less than a days running costs and a demo sure takes a lot longer than 1 day! But apart from that we don't feel its the type of game where you can give away a little without giving away too much. A bad demo can be much worse than no demo.

Iain, I think you're wrong on this one. As you undoubtedly know from reading my posts on the Slitherine CEAW forum, I am a great fan of this game, and especially appreciate that it can be modded, has a PBEM mode, and is well supported by the developer.

A demo would get the "fence-sitters" off the fence. Either they would love it (as I and many others do), or they would make up their minds not to buy it, and at least we wouldn't have to listen to the ongoing dialogue about "to buy or not to buy".

I think Slitherine could set up a demo of the invasion of Poland and it would not be giving away too much. And it would be enough for someone to get an idea of how the game works.

It does puzzle me that there is so much drama over a $50 game---in Canada, that is just about the cost of a movie for two (including drinks and popcorn---add in gas, possible baby-sitter, etc) and frankly, this game is a hell of lot more entertaining for a much longer time than any movie I have seen in recent years.

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Post #: 35

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 5:08:26 PM

Happycat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wargamer123

a Fall of France Teaser as in Strategic Command's case only going to create addicts.

Notwithstanding what I said in my previous response to Iain's comments, SC2's demo is a perfect case in point supporting what Iain said about bad demo's. I thought the SC2 demo was poorly implemented, and it actually convinced me to NOT buy the game.

But, at least I knew.

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Post #: 36

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 5:12:40 PM

Erik Rutins

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Really, we've had this discussion at very extended length before, so I'm not interested in jumping back into it to a great degree. Searching the forum and the usenet newsgroup will give you a good idea of my opinions.

In short, the only two criteria we really consider for a demo is whether we think it will be a better tool to show off the game than the other tools we have (screenshots, ads, AARs, previews, movies) and whether the developer wants to do a demo. Demos do consume development time and resources, but if we and the developer feel a game would do well with a demo, that's rarely an issue. We have no policy against demos. However, we've tried demos for various games in the past and believe me, the results do vary.

Bad demos (which either misrepresent the game or don't explain it well enough) can actually hurt sales and we've found that for the time spent on them, demos are actually less bang for the buck than most other promotional tools. The top two things that can make a bad demo, IMHO are #1 if it doesn't explain the game well and #2 if it gives away too much of the game. In the case of #1 that's VERY easy to do with a wargame. Most wargames are much more complex than CEAW and most people spend 10-15 minutes on a demo, not even enough time to learn the game. This includes many wargamers, unfortunately. #2 applies more to a game like CEAW and knowing where to draw the line between what's given away in the demo and what's reserved for the full version can be tricky.

We do realize that gamers love demos - we're gamers too and we understand that. However, demos are not the be all - end all of promoting a game. I realize some folks won't buy without a demo - unfortunately some of our titles will never have demos. However, we've had a very good response in general to the other methods of explaining and presenting a game. I'd say for wargames that a good AAR is actually a better way to explain the game to a customer than a demo if they have 15 minutes to actually look at some kind of preview info, since the AAR shows them what a player who already knows how to play can do and what the game can do. It can take a lot more than 15 minutes with a wargame demo to get that level of enjoyment out of it, which is unfortunately more than most people give a demo in terms of attention span.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 37

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/2/2007 8:10:29 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

... In short, the only two criteria we really consider for a demo is whether we think it will be a better tool to show off the game than the other tools we have (screenshots, ads, AARs, previews, movies) and whether the developer wants to do a demo ...

The forgotten factor.

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Post #: 38

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 9:22:39 AM

wargamer123

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I have worked in software creation! I know for a fact that Matrix is wrong, it is in my opinion laziness. I have been in the Software Industry as a customer for 18-19 years, an admirer for more... I have been making money in it as well!

DEMOS sell!!! Unless what you're selling is purposely concealing something in order to get that 'purchase'... Screenshots, Writeups, Stories all that is hogwash, i.e. Masters of Orion III!!! Jesus! Ahmen!

The more you advertise, the more that people see what you have the better. When you offer them your Engine up for Examination, they get the gist of it. They fall in love or they loathe it, but either way you end up with a satisfied customer. That is the Goal of the Software Developer, that and make money. If you do not do both you will not succeed and your endeavor is fruitless! :)

Believe me, I know I have been buying wargames since before Puberty.

(in reply to Joe D.)

Post #: 39

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 12:25:28 PM

IainMcNeil

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I wonder why the biggest games such as Command and Conquer had no demo? Maybe they need some lessons in marketing so they can make their games a success :)

Software and games are very very different so expereince in one area does not always work in another. Even casual games are very different to gamers games and online games are another area completely.

We've done demos before and we may do a demo of Commander at some later date but have no current plans to do so.

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Post #: 40

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 3:44:28 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wargamer123

.. Believe me, I know I have been buying wargames since before Puberty.

Well, by this definition I'm a "Johnny come lately," but from my own experience, demos are more geared for the grognard -- someone who already knows what they like/dislike in a game -- than the casual gamer.

I started gaming -- after being assigned to a remote military post w/nothing better to do -- via Koei Nintendo ports, eventually graduating to the PC after I bought titles like HttR and UV in retail stores; this was the bait that got me hooked into these forums, so I think retail (vs. online) sales is more effective than a demo for attracting the attention of the novice gamer.

Not that I have anything against demos, but a broader release of CEaW, CaW, etc., will get Slitherine, SSG et al more casual gamers than a demo will.

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Post #: 41

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 4:31:09 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wargamer123
I have worked in software creation! I know for a fact that Matrix is wrong, it is in my opinion laziness. I have been in the Software Industry as a customer for 18-19 years, an admirer for more... I have been making money in it as well!

DEMOS sell!!! Unless what you're selling is purposely concealing something in order to get that 'purchase'... Screenshots, Writeups, Stories all that is hogwash, i.e. Masters of Orion III!!! Jesus! Ahmen!

The more you advertise, the more that people see what you have the better. When you offer them your Engine up for Examination, they get the gist of it. They fall in love or they loathe it, but either way you end up with a satisfied customer. That is the Goal of the Software Developer, that and make money. If you do not do both you will not succeed and your endeavor is fruitless! :)

Believe me, I know I have been buying wargames since before Puberty.

Well, who can argue with that?

Seriously, if you think we're lazy, I encourage you to come work for us someday. That should fix that misconception. I don't see why you'd assume that I'm lying. Demos do not always sell WARgames, period. Demos do work very well for some other genres which we don't generally sell. Apples and oranges. Our goal is also satisfied customers, but there are many ways to achieve that same goal.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 6:02:45 PM

IainMcNeil

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CEAW has already released at retail in Spain & Russia. France & French speaking areas (Swiss, Belgium etc), Italy, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic and Germany & German speaking areas (Swiss, Austria etc) all to come in the next few months. USA and UK retail is a nightmare for PC games these days and very hard to get in. Matrix is almost entirely US & UK based so if it's not out in those countries people probably assume it's not out anywhere. Only a small portion of total sales will come from online sales, probably less than 10%. This game has strong online sales, but for our other games probably ~1% of sales are online and 99% at retail.

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 8:11:08 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil
... USA and UK retail is a nightmare for PC games these days and very hard to get in ...

Why is that? I recently saw Slitherine's "Rome, Great Battles" in a Circuit City store; I take it that this is unusual.

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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Post #: 44

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 8:41:12 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.
Why is that? I recently saw Slitherine's "Rome, Great Battles" in a Circuit City store; I take it that this is unusual.

That is actually a pretty long story, but Iain's quite right about the US retail market for PC Games. It was tough when we started Matrix and it's only become much more difficult since. We've still put at least a couple of games into retail each year, but frankly if we relied on retail we wouldn't be in business.

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 8:50:46 PM

cptracks

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Guess I'll throw in my two cents. Personally I rate this game several big notches above SC1, haven't tried SC2 or variants, nor am I likely to with this one on the hard drive. AI not really great but it can surprise (arriving in front of Moscow at 2/3 to 1/2 strength will give you cause for reflection). Where I am finding that this one shines is playing other people. This is the first game that enticed me into pbem and its well worth it. While I (used to) love the big monsters with intimate details I just don't have a lot of extra time and this one fits the bill quite well.

(in reply to Widell)

Post #: 46

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/3/2007 11:02:04 PM

IainMcNeil

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We get in to retail with our core internally developed games which have much higher budgets than Commander, which is essentially developed by one guy (Johan). We give a lot of support (design, music, sound etc) and arrange all the deals for retail release across Europe but in the UK and US there is just no demand for this type of game at retail. The Great Battles of Rome also has the History Channel branding and movies and more importantly is multi format - PC, PS2 and PSP. In Europe it also had a huge TV advertising campaign as well as great support from the History Channel in each territory and has been top 5 in all trritories in retail sales. In the US we've had a tougher time because the PC version is coming out before the PS2 and PSP because of delays with Sony approvals.

We are not planning any PC only titles ourselves at the moment.

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 8:55:20 AM

wargamer123

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Yes, the US market is flakey. There is however a portion of people who'll purchase these types of Titles, when I managed the Largest Computer Retail Shop in the Eastern USA, Third Reich-High Command-etc... were sold out! But of course it was near a military base, with remote, lonely guys, who love war.. Like me :) I'm a history buff... Quake, Doom, RTS, the Arcade, RP, etc... Genres were still #1, Strategy Wargames were always second seat. I finally found Strategic Command 1 for sale bundled with 4 Titles, so I assume they were pushing for any sort of sale at that point

The Internet is Massive now, many avoid the Retail Market, most of us have HighSpeed Internet... So the Grognards as you guys call them will "Search!" However there are some who are not Internet Saavy, so don't assume if you could afford to market a game it would be a hit, I assume the Cost isn't worth it...

I had a percentage share in a Army Program, We sold it to an Army Service Store. You know you're going to sell :)

I would hate to see a game not sell, I would work with you guys, I would love to. I have dreamed of inventing my own wargame for years, starting off with a boardgame, they're much work though. I know it! A Demo wouldn't be hard to program if you simplified the process, by "ending the game at fall of france," a few scripts. Zip!

let me do you a little favor, goto PanzerLiga.com big site for Panzer General, SC and ask the Moderator there, in fact I'll ask him for you... he may... Do a poll of hundreds of Grognards if they'd buy if the Demo was favorable :) if it is, 5,000 bucks is worth cutting the game off at fall of Poland, fall of France

Period :)

Johan, Congrats, I never dreamt you'd do it... Be the FrontRunner with your Work, always.. Never let anyone steal your baby, no matter the work, don't be convinced and keep your dream alive by building "more!"

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 1:03:57 PM

IainMcNeil

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We're already in contact with the Panzer Liga guys. We gave them a free copy to review it and hopefully start some games going over there. It will really take off when the German version is released though.

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 2:39:11 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wargamer123
Yes, the US market is flakey. There is however a portion of people who'll purchase these types of Titles, when I managed the Largest Computer Retail Shop in the Eastern USA, Third Reich-High Command-etc... were sold out! But of course it was�near a military base, with remote, lonely guys, who love war.. Like me :) I'm a history buff... Quake, Doom, RTS, the Arcade, RP, etc... Genres were still #1, Strategy Wargames were always second seat. I finally found Strategic Command 1 for sale bundled with 4 Titles, so I assume they were pushing for any sort of sale at that point

Yeah, the retail market then was MUCH different from how it is now though.

quote:

The Internet is Massive now, many avoid the Retail Market, most of us have HighSpeed Internet... So the Grognards as you guys call them will "Search!" However there are some who are not Internet Saavy, so don't assume if you could afford to market a game it would be a hit, I assume the Cost isn't worth it...

Note that we're not just guessing on this either - we send PC wargames to US retail pretty much every year and monitor how they sell.

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 8:40:26 PM

O.O. Howard

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I am with you, cptracks. Commander is better than SC. But I just noticed a game called 'making history' about WWII. It looked like it might be good. Now that i am getting to know you guys i trust your opinions(well, some of you

) and i wonder if anyone has tried 'Making History'. If so, tell me what you think.

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 9:24:12 PM

Joe D.

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I don't know whether you trust me or not, but I did purchase Making History ; I placed an advance order for it based on a national magazine review I read while waiting in my dentist's office.

Not a bad game, considering its $20 plus pricetag. It's easier to learn than HoI, but HoI2 Doomsday is still cheaper and gives you more options.

MH is similar to a turn-based HoI -- which isn't a bad idea as CEaW is a cross between HoI and PG -- but MH has its limitations. Originally, the software was a learning device to teach students WW II by becoming a nation in that conflict and managing all its resources, diplomacey and military.

But even w/a new patch, I thought the game was over-rated. And you need a good video card for it's icon global graphics.

MH has its own forum, and there must be plently of player reviews you can tap after an online search.

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Post #: 52

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/4/2007 11:43:23 PM

SMK-at-work

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I tried the demo of MH (hey that's topical!!;)) - it was an intersting game, but had a couple of basic flaws as a simulation that I didnt' like - eg you can only produce 1 unit type in an area - patent nonsense IMO. Such a simple error in otherwise fairly sophisticated game makes it less of a wargame and more of the learnign tool it was built upon.

I rate the demo the same as CEAW or SC2 - interesting but simulation-lite. Having 2 such games already I felt zero desire to have a third, even though it is substantially different from teh otehr 2.

(in reply to Joe D.)

Post #: 53

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/5/2007 12:17:18 AM

PunkReaper

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Just bought CEAW....having great fun.....don't dilly or dally just buy and enjoy...you know you want to!

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/5/2007 5:15:09 AM

targul

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I bought and played MH. It was fun for about a weak so if you like very weak games that are easy to play both it and this one are good. Both this and that game lack any real historical appeal.

As to games they are both okay but neither is based on WWII unless you believe air, navy and tanks make a game WWII but for me I require some real WWII concepts.

Good luck you will enjoy both for very short periods I know I did and most of those who own it say just about the same thing.

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RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/5/2007 11:51:01 AM

firepowerjohan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I bought and played MH. It was fun for about a weak so if you like very weak games that are easy to play both it and this one are good. Both this and that game lack any real historical appeal (not talking about this one post but your whole history and presence on forums).

As to games they are both okay but neither is based on WWII unless you believe air, navy and tanks make a game WWII but for me I require some real WWII concepts.

Good luck you will enjoy both for very short periods I know I did and most of those who own it say just about the same thing.

Your opinion is not that of the majority and after monitoring this for a long while (your posting history) my conclusion is that you are actively spreading rumors and half truths about CEaW. We have gamespot votes, reviews and also a voting topic (that you also posted in hence read) where ppl on this forum rated CEaW and everything suggests that you speak for a minority at best since most ppl say they enjoy the game!

P.S
A while back you said you were leaving this game and forum and wished to head back to Battlefront and play SC2. Now that you evidently are back one can wonder if your intent is to start playing this game again or to continue where you left of (as seems by the posts) to throw dirt on CEaW, Slitherine, Matrix, Firepower and everyone else here that are trying to make good wargames. If SC2 really is that good and since you rated CEaW as mediocre previously, what is it that drives you back here?

< Message edited by firepowerjohan -- 10/5/2007 12:39:04 PM >

_____________________________

Johan Persson - Firepower Entertainment
Lead developer of:
World Empires Live http://www.worldempireslive.com/
CEAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18
CNAW http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=52

(in reply to targul)

Post #: 56

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/5/2007 1:42:55 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: firepowerjohan

quote:

ORIGINAL: targul

I bought and played MH. It was fun for about a weak so if you like very weak games that are easy to play both it and this one are good. Both this and that game lack any real historical appeal (not talking about this one post but your whole history and presence on forums).

As to games they are both okay but neither is based on WWII unless you believe air, navy and tanks make a game WWII but for me I require some real WWII concepts.

Good luck you will enjoy both for very short periods I know I did and most of those who own it say just about the same thing.

Your opinion is not that of the majority and after monitoring this for a long while (your posting history) my conclusion is that you are actively spreading rumors and half truths about CEaW. We have gamespot votes, reviews and also a voting topic (that you also posted in hence read) where ppl on this forum rated CEaW and everything suggests that you speak for a minority at best since most ppl say they enjoy the game!

P.S
A while back you said you were leaving this game and forum and wished to head back to Battlefront and play SC2. Now that you evidently are back one can wonder if your intent is to start playing this game again or to continue where you left of (as seems by the posts) to throw dirt on CEaW, Slitherine, Matrix, Firepower and everyone else here that are trying to make good wargames. If SC2 really is that good and since you rated CEaW as mediocre previously, what is it that drives you back here?

I find this post patently offensive.

While I did simply walked away from this game I found extremely little satisfaction with I have contimued to look in on this forum.

You might want to open your eyes to the simple fact of reality that just because an opinion is in the minority does NOT mean that it is incorrect.

The MAJORITY once believed the earth was flat.

The MAJORITY once believed the earth was the center of the solar system.

Given the veracity of the historical failures of the MAJORITY to get things right, I personally, tend to lean toward an acceptance of the opinions of the minority who often demonstrate far, far greater cognitive powers than the majority.

Your post belies an almost paranoid fear of criticism in a shallow and transparent effort to suppress it.

So your take on things is that when some one makes an inquiry of other gamers through these forums only fanbois need apply?

You should be ashamed.

p.s. In my anger over your post I completely forgot to provide my opinion and recommendation in response to the original poster's question. Don't buy, huge waste of $70.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/5/2007 2:30:19 PM >

(in reply to firepowerjohan)

Post #: 57

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/5/2007 4:57:37 PM

IainMcNeil

Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline

I think its hard for the players to understand what it takes to make a game. Johan has spent 2 years of his life making Commander - Europe at War and it is his baby. It's also his first game so he's not experienced at dealing with the negative feedback. When you are so close to a game any attack on it feels like a personal attack on you.

Although you guys have paid your hard earned cash to play the game Johan went for a year and half without getting paid at all to make the game. He could earn a lot more working in a normal job like you guys do, but he has a passion to make games. It takes long long hours and it's a very demanding job. This is not an easy business to be in and it takes people like Johan with such high levels of commitment to keep it going. Whether he'll make enough money to continue doing it full time is still unknown, but what we can say for sure is that Commander is not going to make him rich!

As with all games it will appeal to some and not to others. There is no need to put a game down because it does not meet your sepcific requirements. Sometimes I think people want to force their opinions on others just to validate their own views. This often happens on gaming forums. It's not malicious, just human nature. If you like a game you try to convince other people to like it and vice versa.

I think CEAW is a good game, but I also think SC" is good. Some like one, some like the other, some like both and others like neither! That's life!

After Johan has been through the process a few times he'll take everything less personally and rise above it, but it's a tough learning curve. Let's just cut him some slack for now :)

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 58

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/6/2007 12:36:01 AM

firepowerjohan

Posts: 378
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline

I never meant in any way that we do not want criticism or do not listen to feedback. We have used alot of input from beta testers and players to improve the game in early phases and past release for patches but we also try to explain what we can do for the game engine and what cannot be changed.

When someone cannot accept that�and continue to put the game down through hundreds of posts month after month and especially openly promoting some other game I just reacted instinctively�like a (any)�human of flesh and blood would do.

It is not Paranoia that some players on BF forum started a mockery topic about CEaW as soon as CEaW came out, and most of them admitted they had not even played the game. Reason of course, some veterans players who for some reason wanted to show their loyalty and protect their own favourite game while fighting other games . It is not somehing we want or have asked for but it is just there but I hope it will stay "there" and we will stay "here" so to speak and no need to bash each others.

Yes, my reply was overblown and the timing not suiting at all and nor is English my native language.�I agree that was a big�mistake and could make my point silly. The reply was rather a reaction to a person complaining about this game for months and I cannot understand what is so fun or exciting as to put down a game at the expense of some other favourite game. It is not good business to react the way I did, but maybe just human

< Message edited by firepowerjohan -- 10/6/2007 1:21:35 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to IainMcNeil)

Post #: 59

RE: To Buy Or Not To Buy? That Is The Question... - 10/6/2007 1:42:07 AM

Vypuero

Posts: 232
Joined: 4/7/2007
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Status: offline

Hans what have you offered in the way of positive suggestions?� You don't always get everything you would want, and Targul has just asked for something and says that if he does not get it the game is broken.��I know that I and others on the forums have seen many of our ideas used and enacted into the game - within the framework of what the developers want and are able to do.

I will also say this: $ Well spent! Most other games I have bought in last couple years I did not play nearly so often and as much as I have (and will) CEAW!

< Message edited by Vypuero -- 10/6/2007 1:56:17 AM >

(in reply to firepowerjohan)

Post #: 60

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