vonSchnitter
Posts: 310
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Germany - still
Status: offline
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Hi Gents,
even though I am late to the party, some events in my current PBM as a JAP player (1.806, ABs extended map, latest CHS 2.08 scen with Nik Mod - 157 (?)) got me into a "test and re-evaluation" situation.
In the game it is late March 42 and my worthy opponent managed to thread a few of his subs through Malacca Strait and past Singapore. I got miffed to say the least.
So I remembered the various threads on Jap ASW - I had taken for gospel - downloaded Leos test scenario, learned a few things about the editor and got at it.
Even though my test - or sampling - base may be slim, there is a clear trend. As far as I can see.
One hint for further testing: Saved games with further tests - even with modifications - may result in false or misleading stats. I used an ASW TF in several tests. Guess what. The game played out identical every time - same ships attaking etc. Even when I changed the destination hex of the TF. Same outcome, with a saved game. Strange.
If you care to test, reload the scenario fresh - or use the editor to make the process less tedious.
Here is part of an e-mail I send my opponent:
I used "Leos" test scenario for a start and added any type of Jap plane type to the testing:
In general: All Airgroups have 27 planes, 80 experience, 90 morale and zero fatigue.
ASW/Search are performed at 100%, 1000 ft alt.
If it comes to ASW there are three issues: Find the subs, keep them hiding (to hinder them to attack), attack them and kill them.
AGs on Naval Search do detect Subs. However, the detection level is about less than half as effective as for those on ASW.
Even though Nells/Bettys detect more subs on search as Helens/Sallys/Lillies the relation is thus:
Nells/Bettys on search find about more than 1/3 more subs on search as Army level bombers.
Nells/Bettys on ASW find 1/2 more subs as Army level bombers.
Nells/Bettys on search very rarely attack subs - and virtually neve score.
ASW
Army level bombers on search find less than half the number of subs on search (compared to ASW), do attack occasionally and score a chance hit than and now.
Nells/Betties on ASW do attack Subs at half the rate of Army Groups on ASW, with half the chance of hitting per attack.
Army bombers on ASW have a ratio of detection/attack/hit of about 7/2/1
Lillies on ASW have a chance of multiple attacks/hits on a single sub at 2:1 compared to helens/ sallies.
Army DBs are quite useless at both Search and ASW.
On Search they just find about 1/2 to 1/3 of the Army LBs - and in both cases almost never attack ( I employed them at different alts with no discernable difference)
IJN Float planes (Alf, Jake, Pete) are pretty good at detecting Subs on ASW, but do not better on search as Army Babs, Dinah etc. And they almost never attack.
Scaling:
Naval search for sub detection with more than one unit is for the most part ineffective. Under good conditions a second unit may find some 25% more.
On ASW scaling is nearing 2/3ds.
Training and Commanders:
I do suspect, Naval ability of commanders have a say. However, since there are very few Army leaders with naval skills beyond 25, the issue is moot.
Search and ASW are very nice for training - having the proper leader in place, at the right time.
end of quote,
Anyway, Did some tests with ASW Hunter/Killer groups and was rather surprised with my findings,
Will report later
_____________________________
 Remember that the first law of motion is to look where you're going. A man with a stiff neck has no place in an airplane. Technical Manual No. 1-210, Elementary Flying, War Department, Washington,
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Printable Version
Leo's ASW Test on 1.8.0.6 - NS vs ASW - 
This is very interesting! 
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