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Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/6/2007 2:29:33 PM

Skeleton

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Not that I have even scratched the surface of AACW, but does Matrix have an agreement going forward to publish AGEOD's forth coming Napoleonic Campaign game? I enjoy seeing two first-rate companies working together and being able to support both at the same time. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

< Message edited by Marcus the leper -- 10/6/2007 3:10:49 PM >

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/10/2007 12:43:14 PM

Skeleton

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Would that be none???

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/10/2007 10:25:43 PM

cdbeck

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I would guess it is too early to tell on this. AGEOD used Matrix as its US distributor and publisher (although they also self-distributed using their online store) for AACW, but for the EU they used Ascaron. I believe AGEOD funds its own development, giving it a bit more freedom to choose outlets later in the development cycle. I am not sure about the specifics of the deals that brought BoA and AACW here, but BoA started by being published by Strategy First and then came later to Matrix, so sometimes these things happen by surprise.

That being said, Phillipe Thibaut is pretty active on Wargamer.com, as is the other Phillipe (Malacher, who I believe goes by Pocus). Sometimes they appear here, and the relations are visibly good. I see no reason, outside of AGEOD deciding to self-distribute, but as an EU based company this might be hard to do in the US) that they wouldn't come back to Matrix to distribute.

The silence on the matter indicates to me that the final deals have not been struck and typically it is a matter of professional courtesy to not publically discuss such deals (like on a forum) before they are finalized. I would be suprised if Napoleonic Campaigns did not show up here, but with Empire in Arms and John Tiller's Nappy game, they may not want to.

Just idle speculation... I would guess you are not going to get an answer, as it is a similar type question to asking how much profit they get from certain games...

SoM

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 12:35:48 AM

Erik Rutins

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That's correct, it's just not something we can discuss at this point.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 3:22:35 AM

Skeleton

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I don't see how it is like asking about profits a company makes on games period, or inquiring about the fiscal health of a compnay or anything quite that vulgar and ignorant. What I asked was in no way a breech of what is and is not professional in any business climate. If you carefully re-read my post, what I asked was, "does" Matrix have a deal going forward, and a simple no would be more then sufficient. I thank you for the education and the lengthy discourse on what is "professional" and proper to ask and shall keep that in mind for future questions "like on a forum". Just the same, thank you for the information.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 4:01:32 AM

wworld7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

I don't see how it is like asking about profits a company makes on games period, or inquiring about the fiscal health of a compnay or anything quite that vulgar and ignorant. What I asked was in no way a breech of what is and is not professional in any business climate. If you carefully re-read my post, what I asked was, "does" Matrix have a deal going forward, and a simple no would be more then sufficient. I thank you for the education and the lengthy discourse on what is "professional" and proper to ask and shall keep that in mind for future questions "like on a forum". Just the same, thank you for the information.

Marcus, as a former manager of Tech Support at a software company. You are asking for a "yes or a no". Whatever the the answer is has value. That is why many companies have a policy of not commenting on such things.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 4:45:40 AM

Skeleton

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Gotcha. Although, as a consumer, it has little or no value to me other then being an answer. In the business world I come from, we just respond to honest questions with honest answers. Especially when those questions come from a customer. I realize it is a crazy concept and it does lack a certain air of sophistication, but more often then not, I have found it works well. Again, notes taken, lessons learned and I thank you. For what it is worth, Erik's response was more then polite and more then enough. The side notes and lectures of others, I could do without.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 6:03:30 AM

wworld7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Gotcha. Although, as a consumer, it has little or no value to me other then being an answer. In the business world I come from, we just respond to honest questions with honest answers. Especially when those questions come from a customer. I realize it is a crazy concept and it does lack a certain air of sophistication, but more often then not, I have found it works well. Again, notes taken, lessons learned and I thank you. For what it is worth, Erik's response was more then polite and more then enough. The side notes and lectures of others, I could do without.

I did not mean to offend you at all. Please accept my apology.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 6:13:56 AM

Zap

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I'm sure SOM meant no disrespect. How could he possibly know how much information you wanted?

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 6:28:08 AM

Zap

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

question to asking how much profit they get from certain games...

SoM

I would like to see how many games are sold. I noticed on the GMT sight they have no problem telling people how many boardgames have been ordered (sold). It seems to be something their proud of over at GMT games?

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 10:59:06 AM

cdbeck

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Umm... Marcus... maybe you should read my post before going off on a tirade...

I didn't lecture you at all. I told you my views on past deals with AGEOD. Then I mention that deals with distributors often are secret until finalized (how is this lecturing you)?

Then I mention that Matrix has a policy of not answering business related questions and noted that I was just idlely speculating, to let you know I had absolutely no insider knowledge.

Sheesh... I got to remember to NOT answer people's empty posts. Try to have a conversation and get lambasted.

Over and out...

(Hey Zap, what is that quote there, that last part is not me)

SoM

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 1:10:05 PM

Skeleton

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Son of Montfort & Flipperwash, I am the one who owes you both an apology. I apologize for my thin skin. My mis-directed anger was just that, mis-directed and ill advised. This forum has never been anything less then helpful and insightful. I thank both of you for the information and hope you accept my sincere words.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 2:43:59 PM

Hanal

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When you think about it, what's the big deal to know this answer now? It is not as if some decision by the consumer needs to be made beforehand since the game is not even released yet. The simpliest way to find out this answer is keep an eye on the Matrix and Ageod websites and wait.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 5:47:10 PM

cdbeck

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It is all good Marcus, just wanted you to know that I was trying to talk to you not at you!

SoM

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/11/2007 6:50:03 PM

wworld7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

Son of Montfort & Flipperwash, I am the one who owes you both an apology. I apologize for my thin skin. My mis-directed anger was just that, mis-directed and ill advised. This forum has never been anything less then helpful and insightful. I thank both of you for the information and hope you accept my sincere words.

Marcus,

As far I am concerned there is no problem and never was. Have a nice day.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/14/2007 1:04:27 AM

Zap

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Umm... Marcus... maybe you should read my post before going off on a tirade...

I didn't lecture you at all. I told you my views on past deals with AGEOD. Then I mention that deals with distributors often are secret until finalized (how is this lecturing you)?

Then I mention that Matrix has a policy of not answering business related questions and noted that I was just idlely speculating, to let you know I had absolutely no insider knowledge.

Sheesh... I got to remember to NOT answer people's empty posts. Try to have a conversation and get lambasted.

Over and out...

(Hey Zap, what is that quote there, that last part is not me)

SoM

SOM, I mistakenly entered my words in your quote.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/16/2007 12:13:45 PM

Gibbon

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Well, I asked the same question elsewhere in the forum and unsurprisingly I got the same answer. Same thing on the AGEod forum.

IMHO, the AGEod guys are among the most secretive guys in the trade. Everybody was waiting for their Victoria-like "Vainglory of Nations" and during the summer they announce a Napoleon game for a release in November. I'm no expert but develomemnt time wise I would say they must have been working on it for monthes without hints to anyone.

Samething for Matrix guys, so if these two companies are working together I don't think we'll ever know before they decide to let us so!!!!

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/16/2007 3:37:28 PM

ravinhood

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If I'm not mistaken Matrixgames is just an outlet for AGEOD's game(s), in other words a place to buy from, but, Matrixgames has no input on the development of AGEOD's games...Isn't that correct Erik?

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/16/2007 3:49:30 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
If I'm not mistaken Matrixgames is just an outlet for AGEOD's game(s), in other words a place to buy from, but, Matrixgames has no input on the development of AGEOD's games...Isn't that correct Erik?

That's correct - we're fans of their games and back when there was just Birth of America not that many folks were aware of them, so we decided to open discussions on whether they'd be interested in reaching all our customers through a secondary Matrix release. The rest you know...

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 1:12:30 AM

ravinhood

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I wonder why Mad Minute doesn't make some agreement with you (Matrixgames) to do the same? They really need some help and a better avenue of delivery to wargamers. I feel they are getting the treatment of games like SACRIFICE that was an excellent real time game as well that got little to no hype or advertising and got lost to the wind. One of them I've read does strike me as sort of above himself at times. When others suggested Matrixgames to them they acted like Matrixgames was some sore and not enough clout for what they wanted. Yet, they haven't got anything from Activision or Paradox in the way of support or advertising that I've seen. Sometimes you have to start at the bottom to get ahead, but, some people want to start at the top and well you see what happens when you have that kind of attitude.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 5:03:30 PM

jchastain

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What I have always wondered, and I do not expect any response from Matrix on this - it is just my own ponderings, is whether Matrix was frightened of setting a precidence by consumating a deal with AGEOD where they did the secondary release.

What I mean by that is that I assume most games are going to draw a large part of their sales immediately after release when there is pent up demand of gamers who have been following the development and the game is getting lots of reviews and press. By self publishing first, AGEOD gets 100% of those "easy" early sales instead of giving up a publishing percentage to Matrix. Matrix only gets a cut of the add-on sales that are generated by the extra exposure that is generated by all the people who visit this site, learn of the game, and have some affinity to Matrix.

That makes perfect sense when you consider only this transaction. But that sets a precident that it isn't an "either/or" publishing deal where you either sign up with Matrix and give them a cut of everything or you lose acess to their customer base. It sets the precident that devs can pick and choose WHEN to begin the Matrix distribution. And I would expect some (certainly not all or even most because publishing, distribution, and support are not nearly as easy as some might imagine) would choose to self publish first and grab a larger percentage of those initial sales and then use Matrix as a secondary channel to capture additional sales. If there is any questions about that, look at AGEOD where they enjoy this exact "benefit".

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the AGEOD partnership and glad to see Matrix being so flexible. I am actually a bit surprised none of the other Matrix devs have gone to this model. Again, I think that shows greater maturity than I would have expected in that the devs have a better understanding of the complexities of distribution than I might otherwise have given them credit for. But I am curious as to whether Matrix has had to do a lot of education to convince people not to do their own initial distributions. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear all the discussions about opening this door to begin with. And I'd be real curious about whether they would do it again if they could go back in time. Matrix doesn't talk about their business practices, so I don't expect and answer to any of these questions. But I do find them interesting.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 6:23:52 PM

cdbeck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain
Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the AGEOD partnership and glad to see Matrix being so flexible. I am actually a bit surprised none of the other Matrix devs have gone to this model. Again, I think that shows greater maturity than I would have expected in that the devs have a better understanding of the complexities of distribution than I might otherwise have given them credit for. But I am curious as to whether Matrix has had to do a lot of education to convince people not to do their own initial distributions.

jchastain,

I believe the difference is between Matrix being a publisher
and also a distributor. Why most of the other "Matrix devs" don't pursue a similar "piecemeal" course like AGEOD is that Matrix is actually publishing their titles, rather than just acting as a distributing storefront.

If I understand the "biz" correctly, with devs like SSG, ADG, and maybe even DVG, Matrix actually absorbs some of the development costs, marketing costs, and distribution costs, in exchange for being the sole distributor of the game. So Matrix puts an investment into the work of certain Devs who could not afford to self publish (smaller, more independent Devs) and they get a say in the development process, get to hound the developer to try and fill certain quality assurance goals and deadlines (see the EiA boards for examples), and then get the right to see it without the developer going to any other outlet.

Now in the case of AGEOD, their success with BoA and Philippe's past successes allowed them the funds to self-publish AACW and the upcoming NC. They still sought out distributors such as Nobilis in the EU and Matrix in the US to provide alternative outlets and brick-and-mortar boxed copies, but they always had the plan to self-distribute on their digital download service.

Why do more devs not do this... simple... lack of money. In fact, we don't necessarily want more people to do this. Sometimes, having a good publisher invest in devs allows more resources for a project and gets the project's quality to a higher level (just as publishers do in written materials like books). They also enforce loose deadlines (except in the case of Robert Jordan, RIP).

SoM

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 7:57:01 PM

ravinhood

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On the other hand having publishers involved makes for some sloppy crappy released games as we have seen for the past near 10 years. I applaud AGEOD for going independent if they can afford to. I would expect their games to have more gentle care and loving hands place on them before release. Not saying Matrixgames is really bad about releases there's going to be some bugs, but, when you look at the likes of more recent published games from Battlefront and Paradox and Sega Total War welp the truth is in the pudding. I don't like the AGEOD engine, but, I still applaud them for doing it on their own. But, if an independent can't make it I'd prefer to see them go with Matrixgames above those others I mentioned. Even if Matrixgames has some steep prices. ;) I still have every christmas to look forward to. :) I like that Matrixgames are more personal with us as well, compared to Steve at Battlefront who is more antagonizing toward his prespective customers, but, still also interacts. He's one of those types if you agree with him you're fine in his book, but, if you don't watchout his banning train is a comin lol. And no I haven't been banned from there, but, I don't spend much time there anyways. This is my home away from home. I simply love the conversations and debates and the loving titles you all give me here. lol ;)

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 8:46:27 PM

Gil R.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the AGEOD partnership and glad to see Matrix being so flexible. I am actually a bit surprised none of the other Matrix devs have gone to this model. Again, I think that shows greater maturity than I would have expected in that the devs have a better understanding of the complexities of distribution than I might otherwise have given them credit for. But I am curious as to whether Matrix has had to do a lot of education to convince people not to do their own initial distributions. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to hear all the discussions about opening this door to begin with. And I'd be real curious about whether they would do it again if they could go back in time. Matrix doesn't talk about their business practices, so I don't expect and answer to any of these questions. But I do find them interesting.

Depends on whether you consider a horse's head left in my bed to be educational.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/17/2007 10:22:25 PM

cdbeck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.
Depends on whether you consider a horse's head left in my bed to be educational.

A very rare picture of Erik with the Matrix servers:

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/18/2007 2:37:58 AM

ravinhood

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That picture more reminds me of what Judge Dredd and Terminus might look like after they've read one of my posts. ;)

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/18/2007 6:25:42 AM

cdbeck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

That picture more reminds me of what Judge Dredd and Terminus might look like after they've read one of my posts. ;)

No, RH... that looks like this:

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/18/2007 6:48:44 AM

Plodder

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quote:

...compared to Steve at Battlefront who is more antagonizing toward his prespective customers, but, still also interacts. He's one of those types if you agree with him you're fine in his book, but, if you don't watchout his banning train is a comin lol.

That is just not true.You can disagree with Steve as much as like as long as it's constructive.Act like a jerk and he'll treat you like one.

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/18/2007 2:19:27 PM

ravinhood

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{very well because I respect Erik} ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 10/18/2007 11:15:34 PM >

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RE: Future Plans w/ AGEOD - 10/18/2007 3:08:47 PM

Erik Rutins

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