Any tips to Win ?

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Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 3:59:55 PM

Bert44

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline

5 Pilots losts and 0 Victory points.. (Level average)

Is there is any strategy in this game ?? (other than assign ATA with Air/air Weapon and ATG with A/G Weapons ?)...

< Message edited by Bert44 -- 10/17/2007 4:08:49 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 5:03:06 PM

jureidinim

Posts: 91
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

Bad rolls and bad event cards can mess up any strategy - which is part of the fun. However there are some things that can help:
1) Early in the conflict - try for "easier" targets - less weight point penalties/less AA/ less migs/less hits to destroy... etc. All targets will affect the campaign tracks and you need those tracks to move to make the tougher missions a bit more manageable.
Note: Remember - when it says 2 Migs in appproach area it means a chance of2 Migs in EACH approach area - so you could be facing up to 8 migs - not counting the target area too!

2) Try and start your pilots where there are less SAMs. Also if the majority of SAMS on your planned route are low, you come in high.
3) Try and use standoff weapons as much as possible (Range greater than 0). In Iraq, this is difficult as those are limited, so you will be forced to use the range 0 bombs, which also forces yu to drop from low altitude. Try and load up your bombers with more than what is needed to take the target out. Have a "fast" bomber pilot in the group. He can swoop into an area and gets first shot at taking out a ground SAM, making it easier for the others coming in.
There is a discussion in another thread where we are discovering that the more modern camaiagns may be a bit easier because you have an abundance of standoff weapons to use.
Loading up extra weapons allows your pilots to "suppress" enemy attacks.

4) Not really something that would probably be tolerated in real life.. heh heh.. but if you have to go into the target area into SAM fire, you could fly in a CAP pilot or two with the bombers. The SAMs randomly chooses a target (or so it seems to me), and so they may target your CAP pilot instead of the bomber - even if the CAP pilot is hit and has to jettison, all you have lost is the AtA weapons - your bombers still have their bombs to hit the target with.

5) Try to dedicate pilots to roles as much as possible. There are heavy penalties when you mix Air to air weaponary and Air to Ground weaponary on the same plane.

6) Always carry a jammer pod. Always.

7) Remember you can change altitude during movement. So if its low SAMs all the way and you have Range zero bombs that have to be dropped from low alt, fly in high to avoid the first set of SAMs (approach area) and then drop low in the target area - less SAMs to face...

8) Wherever possible, take out the range 1 SAMs - they can bite you on the way out.

Those are just general things i've picked up. They aren't hard and fast, and you will have to tweak depending on the situation, your pilots stress and just plain - "how lucky do you feel?"

(in reply to Bert44)

Post #: 2

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 5:21:17 PM

hondo1375

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/12/2005
From: London, UK
Status: offline

jureidinim's tips are good advice.

Perhaps you could talk us through one of your typical missions so we can see what's going wrong.

A few questions that come to mind after looking at your stats:
- Are you running out of AtG before you can destory the target, or are your AtG planes getting shot down before they can deliver?
- What is shooting you down? Bandits or AA or is it a mix? Short or long range?
- Are you getting shot down in approach or over the target?
- Are you flying pilots who's stress is reducing their stats?
- Are you just failing to score the last hit on targets, or are you getting no where near close to destroying them?
- Are you grouping your planes or spreading them out over several approach sectors?
- How are you using evade and supress?
- What mix of AtG's and AtA do you typically use?

hondo

_____________________________

First wargame: Jedko's 1st edition "The Russian Campaign". First computer wargame: don't remember the name, but it was on punch cards.

(in reply to Bert44)

Post #: 3

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 5:56:38 PM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

One easier one is factor in altitude. You can do this in most scenarios by looking at the layout of sites and their ranges. If they are mostly low altitude attackers put all your planes at high altitude and best case use all high-altitude bombs etc. If the opposite is true go in at low altitude.

Use an approach area that avoids the most zero range attackers so you dont have to deal with them period. Take out all Range 1 attackers. Use R weaponry for R targets its a lot easier.

Most importantly gain air superiority. Generally I will always arm at least 2 planes with nothing but AA (so no negative penalty for carrying heavier weapons). Pick the ones with the best bonuses. Then I will arm at least 2 as ATG (with the best bonus). Usually the ones in between will either be half/half or dedicated AA or ATG based upon the scenario.

Fire two AA missles from each of your fast attackers during the first round at the worst of the attacking aircraft (unless you have +2 and Range 3 AA then you probably wont miss anyway unless the aircraft is -1 to hit).

Also, use suppression. Mainly against aircraft. If you follow the above you will have more than enough AA to use suppression until you can eliminate them all. Select a +2 AA pilot and a good AA missle and your practically invulnerable. When targeting aircraft I always go for the (1-x-x) planes first then (2-x-x) and so on. Ignore the 0 range and 1 range until you kill all 2 range aircraft etc.

Besides that, evade evade evade. I rarely resolve combat normally. With good tactics you won't get attacked as much especially in North Korea and the likes. With Iraq I have to do more normal resolutions to try to keep stress in check (still only do it for like 5-x-x attackers though).

Use Special Options Points wisely. I generally reserve them for long range ATG so I can bomb a low hits target from the entry areas in a scenario where I otherwise couldn't combat all the opponents (ie. entering into it with already high stress and lots of range 1 sites at varying altitudes)

Choose the right easier scenarios to raise intel, infra, recon, etc. to help you on tougher missions later.

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Post #: 4

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 6:33:41 PM

Bert44

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline

Ok, i try to explain how i plan a mission for 4 Hornet (And i apologize for my poor english..)

- I try to choose an easy mission (not many sites or bandits)
- I calculate the number of Hits needed to destroy the Target.
- I choose 2 a/c for AG target and 1 or 2 a/a Missile. And if any more place an ecm pod.
- If the Sam site on target is limited to Low level range altitude, I strike with GBU or AGM65 to launch at high level.
- If the Sam site on target is limited to High level range altitude, i strike at low altitude (Mk83-Mk82)
- Then i choose a/c with mixed Sead and Escort loadout : 2AGM88 + 2 air/air missiles + 1 ecm or 1 chaff/flares pod).
- I (of course) assign the skilled pilots ATG and ATA for bonus.
(If there are to much radar site on Target, i choose GBU/ AGM65) to fire outside the target area).
- In placement phase, I place in fonction of range and altitude strike of ennemy sites and aircrafts.
- In more times, i group my planes in the same area, but not necessary at the same altitude.

Combat :
- I always try to shoot 1st (site or bandits) with the fast pilots.(good method ?)
- I do'nt know if it's preferabe to supress or evade ? (I evade more often)
- Some a/c lost their armements (supress or evade failed) before they reach the target area..
- On target: lot of my A/G weapon miss their objectives, or only 1 hit scored per Mk83

In 3 missions in Iraq campaign, I have some many bads events :
On ingress : Loss of many A/G Weapon - Loss of 1 a/c
On egress : Loss of another 1 a/c.

I also change pilots (with no stress) for the next missions, but in the last mission campaign (screenshoot above) you can see that many of them are not OK.

is any campaign more easy to play than another one ?

thx !

(in reply to hondo1375)

Post #: 5

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 6:50:29 PM

Dan Verssen

Posts: 389
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline

Bert44,

No need to apologize, your English is fine.

The more recent campaigns tend to be easier because you have more high-tech weapons.

For destroying enemy Sites, try using AGM-88s or AGM-45s. These weapons can only attack sites with an "R", but they are good at it.

To start, try attacking targets that require fewer hornets. This will give you a good feel for the game.

_____________________________

-Dan Verssen
Dan Verssen Games (DVG)
www.dvg.com

(in reply to Bert44)

Post #: 6

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 7:28:18 PM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

is any campaign more easy to play than another one ?

Go with North Korea. I think its a lot easier than Iraq.

quote:

- I try to choose an easy mission (not many sites or bandits)
- I calculate the number of Hits needed to destroy the Target.
- I choose 2 a/c for AG target and 1 or 2 a/a Missile. And if any more place an ecm pod.
- If the Sam site on target is limited to Low level range altitude, I strike with GBU or AGM65 to launch at high level.
- If the Sam site on target is limited to High level range altitude, i strike at low altitude (Mk83-Mk82)
- Then i choose a/c with mixed Sead and Escort loadout : 2AGM88 + 2 air/air missiles + 1 ecm or 1 chaff/flares pod).
- I (of course) assign the skilled pilots ATG and ATA for bonus.
(If there are to much radar site on Target, i choose GBU/ AGM65) to fire outside the target area).
- In placement phase, I place in fonction of range and altitude strike of ennemy sites and aircrafts.
- In more times, i group my planes in the same area, but not necessary at the same altitude.

Make sure you dedicate pilots to either ATA or ATG role. Dont give ATA pilots ecm or chaff/flare give them only to one rookie (Anyone else do this?) as they count against ATA performance and waste space on good ATG pilots.
You definitely need to do more suppression. IT doesnt make sense at first but your probably loading up with too much ATG.. Why? Because pilots loose their weapons or get shot down and you still need enough to hit the target right? But if you arm more ATA pilots and have enough to totally supress all air strikes you wont get damaged/lost weapons or lost pilots (or stress for that matter) so suppression is absolutely key. For ATG attacks I tend to mostly evade (Though if you've done it right you'll probably have only 1 or 2 in range and capable of attack anyway before they are destroyed).

quote:

- I always try to shoot 1st (site or bandits) with the fast pilots.(good method ?)

Bandits are always first for me, sites second

quote:

- I do'nt know if it's preferabe to supress or evade ? (I evade more often)

preferable to supress

quote:

- Some a/c lost their armements (supress or evade failed) before they reach the target area..

Can't always be helped in Iraq but in North Korea its seldom anything ever even gets to attack :)

quote:

- On target: lot of my A/G weapon miss their objectives, or only 1 hit scored per Mk83

This unfortuneately could partly be a bug thats been fixed. I seem to see this most with large stacks of iron bombs (like 4 or 5) so ive tended to go with the 2slot bombs in Iraq and/or North Korea (better for the +2 ATG pilots anyway)

quote:

In 3 missions in Iraq campaign, I have some many bads events :
On ingress : Loss of many A/G Weapon - Loss of 1 a/c
On egress : Loss of another 1 a/c.

Yeah I hate those events. I generally always expend the weapon counters except for if its ATG weapons and I spent a lot on SO weapons. Seems like they like to rob you of those and often the whole success is based upon having those so I take my chances in those cases.

quote:

I also change pilots (with no stress) for the next missions, but in the last mission campaign (screenshoot above) you can see that many of them are not OK.

Actually Im not sure this is always the best idea. If your playing well enough its sometimes better to reuse pilots with stress 1-3 rather than a 0.. for a few reasons:
1. Because you really need your best pilots, Fast attack, Cool, +2 or +3, High stress before penalties anyway etc etc as much as possible (An Ace with 3 stress is still 4 times better than a rookie with no stress)
2. Because the mission is a super easy one and you want to make sure certain pilots are avail at 0 stress for the next tougher mission (usually this happens later in a campaign when you know the missions and have a good set of reductions) and that sort of thing.
3. Im sure there are others but sometimes I rarely even use the no stress pilots that arent good. (see below where Package the rookie was barely used for 18 whole days):

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 7:33:50 PM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

One other thing not to overlook is pilot selection.

I personally think there is no right answer here overall but rather a right answer to suit you method of play.

For me I go with every single FAST pilot as I think thats by far the most important trait. That suits my methods of eliminating long range aircraft before I even need to supress them.

I next look at high COOL as I want pilots who can take the stress and recover fast.

Then I look at ATA or ATG pluses. I only really need one or the other to be high.

Last I look at the experience for advancement (Which others seem to rate real high but Id rather take known good from the start when I need it most than someone who gains something randomly better midway through).

etc.

Naturally, like probably anyone, I therefore pick the exact same pilots every single time :)

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Post #: 8

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 8:30:32 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline

If the enemy air cover might be light, I'll load up my 2nd AtA pilot with a couple AGM-45/88s and maybe a Mk20 along with his AIM missiles. This way, if air cover is lighter than my estimates, I can use him on SEAD. It allows for a little flexibility.

If there are more enemy aircraft than I thought, I'll Jettison the AtG ordnance on him the first thing and go purely AtA. The jettison button can be your friend - just remember not to click on any pilot during the Fast Pilot phase or you won't be able to get back to the Jettison option.

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Post #: 9

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/17/2007 11:15:42 PM

Bert44

Posts: 21
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline

OK, I just begin Korea 2007 (average) and it's look like less difficult.

The two first missions : 0 loss and 2 missions success with all VP

thx

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 10

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/18/2007 12:18:00 AM

Dan Verssen

Posts: 389
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline

Excellent!

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Dan Verssen Games (DVG)
www.dvg.com

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Post #: 11

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/18/2007 4:24:51 AM

IPWinsor

Posts: 176
Joined: 8/18/2007
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Here's my 2 cents:

- take all the Fast pilots you can get when picking a squadron.

- I always start my Hornets on a side square, so that that are only being shot at by one sector of SAMs, not 2. This also means that Migs 25s and 29s (with R2 ATA missles) in the approach on the other side of the board are 3 sectors away and can't engage you. If you have AIM-120s, you can shoot them down outside their range.

- if possible, initially place your Hornets in a side sector with no SAMs in the adjoining approach area, so that you can focus on Migs exclusively on Turn 1.

- always take one AtG weap per Hornet on intercept missions, so you are prepared for ambushes on Ingress and Egress. Always give each bomber pilot an Aim-9 to deal with being jumped by MIGs on the way home.

- save your SO points for the difficult targets. Don't squander them.

- Use all the same pilots on the easy missions early in the campaign so they get promoted and have better abilities for the hard missions to come.

- for the middle missions, mix in lower quality pilots in the package with bombing loadouts and give them first crack at the target. It they hit, they will soon be promoted. If they miss, have an experienced guy in reserve loaded out with enough ordinance to do the job himself. Getting the low quality pilots promoted on easier missions prepares the squadron to take on the big (8, 10, and 11 ship) missions.

- learn which pilots become fast when promoted and get them promoted early in the campaign.

- assuming a typical 6 Hornet mission, take 4 fast pilots, 2 with AtA loadouts and 2 with SEAD/Ironhand loadouts to deal with the SAMs. This will get the other 2 (with bomb loadouts) to the target and back.

- when planning the A/C and weaps that will actually bomb the target, always take more hit power that you need, in case more armor gets added to the target before you get there.

- I always keep my guys in the same sector, so they can mutually support one another (suppressions).

- I never use pods, ever. Give me a weapon anyday.

- study the target and defenses and decide if you are going in high or low. Stick to the plan. Its generally easier to take out the SAMs and stay high in the Korea Theatre. The others are a mix. Avoid taking out defenses by using the correct altitude when possible, and save the ordinace for the target.

- do not waste weapons on targets of opportunity. Plan the mission to take out the minimum number of sites to get in and out safely. The mission you waste weaps padding your cred is the one you will get ambushed by SAMs or jumped by MIGs on the way home.

(in reply to Dan Verssen)

Post #: 12

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/19/2007 8:07:37 AM

Texashawk

Posts: 208
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IPWinsor

- I never use pods, ever. Give me a weapon anyday.

Really. Wow. I think that's a first for any Hornet Leader player I've ever heard of... I sure know they've saved my bacon WAY more than once! 10% assistance may seem small, but in my experience it's been essential. That said, whatever works for you is always the best strategy...

(in reply to IPWinsor)

Post #: 13

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/19/2007 8:13:18 AM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline

I practically never use pods either.

The only time I have is when I can use a lot of load points and I want a bit more insurance for my SEAD guy.

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Post #: 14

RE: Any tips to Win ? - 10/20/2007 2:00:53 AM

Veldor

Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Texashawk

Really. Wow. I think that's a first for any Hornet Leader player I've ever heard of... I sure know they've saved my bacon WAY more than once! 10% assistance may seem small, but in my experience it's been essential. That said, whatever works for you is always the best strategy...

I don't use pods all that much either. Because of the penalties I dont give them to ATA pilots and I usually can't spare the space for ATG. Id much rather use FAST and/or extra pilots to kill all the bandits right off and suppress any actual fire.

Thats say for 4-6 planes on North Korea... Much more likely to use pods on larger missions in other theatres..

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Post #: 15