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LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 6:07:31 PM   
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Curty
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Posts: 269
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From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline 		LCI)m)s,LCI(r)s etc do not seem to add their support to my amphib' assaults...bearing this in mind, and their inability to carry troop/supply points i sallied them forth towards Truk as Bettybait

I suppose my question is this, does patch 1.806 do anything about these otherwise useless boats or do others use them as 'sacrificial lambs' as well.

-cheers, Curty-

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 6:08:42 PM   
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Terminus
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Status: offline 		No, they don't work at the moment. I've taken them all out of my mod...

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 6:22:21 PM   
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Curty
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Posts: 269
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From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
Status: offline 		Perhaps i am better off with your mod

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 9:05:25 PM   
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Feinder
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Status: offline 		They don't work.

I tested these guys extensively.  If you change the device type of thier guns to "naval guns" (instead of whatever they are currently, I think "army guns"), they will suppress (quite effectively) shore guns.

However, it also means these guys become some seriously bad mo-fos in naval combat (think of your all your fears of PTs, exponentially worse).

But as they are right now, they're just targets.  And give that they actually do give vps when sunk (as I recall), they can be expesive targets.

-F-

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 9:34:44 PM   
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Curty
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Posts: 269
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From: Barnard Castle,Durham County,UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

They don't work.

I tested these guys extensively.  If you change the device type of thier guns to "naval guns" (instead of whatever they are currently, I think "army guns"), they will suppress (quite effectively) shore guns.

However, it also means these guys become some seriously bad mo-fos in naval combat (think of your all your fears of PTs, exponentially worse).

But as they are right now, they're just targets.  And give that they actually do give vps when sunk (as I recall), they can be expesive targets.

-F-


You can chuck away vps galore as allied and still win


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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/23/2007 11:54:52 PM   
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Feinder
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Status: offline 		True.

But that doesn't mean you should.. 

-F-

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/24/2007 1:46:12 AM   
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Nomad
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Status: offline 		So, they didn't work with version 1.0 and they still don't work?

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/24/2007 11:17:32 AM   
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Terminus
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Status: offline 		Nope. What, you were expecting them to?

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/24/2007 12:43:33 PM   
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goodboyladdie
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Status: offline 		Making them very cheap would at least mean that they have a use as aditional targets. At the moment they are completely pointless. If it could be coded that where they are present naval vessels in the same hex get a shore bombardment bonus that might be another work around.

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/25/2007 4:13:17 AM   
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Andrew Brown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

They don't work.

I tested these guys extensively. If you change the device type of thier guns to "naval guns" (instead of whatever they are currently, I think "army guns"), they will suppress (quite effectively) shore guns.

However, it also means these guys become some seriously bad mo-fos in naval combat (think of your all your fears of PTs, exponentially worse).

But as they are right now, they're just targets. And give that they actually do give vps when sunk (as I recall), they can be expesive targets.

-F-


Interesting test results. What about if you made their "guns" very inaccurate or short ranged? Does that make them less deadly in naval combat but still effective when invading? Maybe that is worth testing.

Andrew

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/25/2007 7:44:43 AM   
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Feinder
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I just re-checked the database. LCI(R,G,L) all have rockets. They're devices 83 & 84, of type "SS Rocket". The problem is that,
1. Either the game (appearently) doesn't know what to do with a "SS Rocket" (it doesn't have a role to fire at ships/troops/installations), so it doesn't do anything with it -or-
2. You'll note the "anti-soft" and "anti-armor" ratings are both 0. It might be using those numbers for shore bombardment. I don't think so tho, because, other naval guns also have 0 for anti-soft/anti-armor, and they work just fine during bombardment.

The LCI(M) has a 4.2" Mortar (device 85), which is of type "Naval Gun". That one -should- work, to a degree. However, it's range is only 6 (I don't think this is an issue), but it's accuracy is only 8 and it's effect is only 16 (which is about the same rating as a 20mm gun). Given that you've only got 3 mortars per LCI(M), even if you -do- manage to roll well enough to hit something (accuracy rating), you're not going to do much (effect rating).

As I recall, I tried chanig the rockets to "army guns", so they wouldn't fire at ships. But army guns don't fire during bombardment, so that didn't work. They need to be changed to type "naval gun" for them to work (you don't want them to be a "DP gun" or they'll be shooting down aircraft). They're rated as a penetration of 50. You could maybe knock that down to 0, and that would help anything with armor (but DDs and everythign else would remain exposed).

Or better to just include the device type "SS Rockets" in the routine that says what can fire during bombardment or invasion suppression. Ironically, if you did -that- it would be a fix to the engine, NOT the database. So folks with games in-progess would suddenly have them start working - no need for restart.

-F-

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/25/2007 9:02:25 AM   
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Andrew Brown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder
Or better to just include the device type "SS Rockets" in the routine that says what can fire during bombardment or invasion suppression. Ironically, if you did -that- it would be a fix to the engine, NOT the database. So folks with games in-progess would suddenly have them start working - no need for restart.

-F-


I was just thinking about data fixes, since that is all I can do. What I was wondering was, would a "gun" (if you changed the rocket to be one instead of SS Rocket) still be included in a a bombardment routine if, say, its range was reduced to 0? Or accuracy to 0? If the code didn't check weapon range/accuracy for bombardment, then MAYBE that would be a way of enabling the weapons to be used for bombardment but not affect surface naval combat?

This is just random conjecture on my part - Unfortunately I don't have the time to test it out...

Andrew

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/25/2007 10:23:36 AM   
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goodboyladdie
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Posts: 3469
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From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline 		Hey Andrew

McAfee SiteAdvisor comes up with a red warning on your homepage at the moment. I think it said something about spyware. Have you been hacked?

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RE: LCI(G)s etc - 10/25/2007 3:28:37 PM   
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Feinder
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Come to thnk on it, it -might- work to set the range to "1" on the "SS Rockets". I've never seen a surface combat occur at 1000 yards (2000 is as close as I've ever seen). Each point of range = 1000 yds. So we -might- get it to work like that. I'll check it out tonight by creating three TFs...

1. Bombardment only TF (with rockets with range=1).
2. Inavsion TF including some LCI(R, range=1) mixed in, to see if they suppress shore batteries.
3. SC TF of LCI(R, range=1) vs. DDs, maybe even some PTs (to insure the range gets close). Finding out if they (don't) fire in surface combat, would be just as important as finding out if they fire during bombardments.

I wouldn't reduce the accuracy to 0, something tells me that would mean "never hit"...

I'll try it out (late) this evening.

-F-

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