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Another thing I would love

 
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Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 11:04:07 AM   
CptWaspLuca


Posts: 199
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline 		It's only an idea, because I already play in this manner:
I use only realistic loadouts. So, if you read Hornet specifications (in Internet you can find those info easily) you can see it can load 8 AtA weapons, but at least 2 must be AIM-9.
The optional introduction of loadouts constraints will be welcome for advanced players.

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Post #: 1
RE: Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 4:12:19 PM   
Noypi53

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline 		You've got my vote.

(in reply to CptWaspLuca)
Post #: 2
RE: Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 7:15:03 PM   
Dan Verssen


Posts: 389
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline 		There's some differences in what sites show, this one for exmaple, seems to show it being able to carry 8 AIM-120s...

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-18.htm

From what I've seen, the Hornet's 11 hard points and use of multi-rack pylon systems means it is much more restricted by weight than weapon types. The only time weapon type seems to be an issue is for the large weapons, like Mk.84s that will only fit one to only some of its pylons. But, our weight point limit handles that.

Now, I'm not saying you can't find a weapon configuration that our weight point model doesn't handle, but I am saying our model fits the vast majority of loads.

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RE: Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 7:30:07 PM   
CptWaspLuca


Posts: 199
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline 		In your link, at the armament voice you can read:

Weapon stations include: two wingtip stations for Sidewinders; two outboard wing stations for air-to-air or air-to-ground weapons; two inboard wing stations for fuel tanks, air-to-air, or air-to-ground weapons; two nacelle fuselage stations for AMRAAMs, Sparrows, or sensor pods; and one centerline station for fuel or air-to-ground weapons.

This confirms what I said. I never heard of a 8-AMRAAMs configuration, but I can be wrong.

I must admit your solution works quite well, there are only some configurations rather unrealistic: 8 AIM-7, 8 AMRAAMs...
The biggest trouble are AGMs: a maximum of 4 is carried on the Hornet, because outboard wings stations are for AIM-9 only, and the nacelle fuselage stations are for AMRAAMs and Sparrows (and the pods). So a loadout with 8 AGM-88 is totally unrealistic.

I play the game in this manner, I always try to use real loadouts, and I find this has a minor impact on game difficulty (slightly more difficult, only in some situations).
If you use the vassal version I understand it's difficult for the player to remember such constraints; but a PC version could implement some automatic check more easily.

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Proud co-founder of Balena Ludens
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(in reply to Dan Verssen)
Post #: 4
RE: Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 7:52:36 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		I like the loading just the way it is.

Do as you will with it but leave mine be.


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Post #: 5
RE: Another thing I would love - 10/25/2007 9:47:36 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		From a "fun factor" standpoint I think having the greatest range of possible weapon loadouts is the most fun and provides the most variation in game play. A much more fixed set of layouts would deter from that somewhat. I also think that this part of the system is one of the key things that makes Hornet Leader Hornet Leader.

However I do not see any downside to implementing this as an optional rule. That would only add one more way to enjoy the game.

The biggest problem I would see with this (Outside from agreeing on what realistic loadouts are) is that there are quite a few varieties that would be needed as different missions have different weight limits. For instance if the weight limit is 5 do you still need 2 AIM-9s?

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RE: Another thing I would love - 10/26/2007 3:50:21 AM   
jureidinim


Posts: 91
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CptWasp

It's only an idea, because I already play in this manner:
I use only realistic loadouts. So, if you read Hornet specifications (in Internet you can find those info easily) you can see it can load 8 AtA weapons, but at least 2 must be AIM-9.
The optional introduction of loadouts constraints will be welcome for advanced players.


Having played the original Hornet Leader and Hornet Leader 2 (Vassal) - i'll throw in my 0.2 cents.

The original Hornet Leader boardgame had exactly what you are asking for. Each plane was represented on a card and could get damaged and be down for repairs. Each plane card had 5 slots to put weapon counters on. Two near the nose which represented wingtip slots and were limited to 1 Sidewinder each. The middle box of the other three boxes represented the centerline load point which could only carry One pod type or One freefall bomb. The final two boxes were your wingload areas and could carry either 1 harpoon each or 2 of any other type of weapon.

It was a different weight point sysem as Sidewinders weighed 0, all hornets could carry 10 weight points, but some missions dictated less weight points depending on range (extra weight points assumed to be fuel loadouts). That final point carried over to Hornet leader 2 and the PC game.

I'm guessing in creating hornet leader 2, the decision was taken to streamline a lot of the rules to get game setup and play moving a bit faster. Among other things, The "plane card" idea was dropped and you no longer had to track individual planes under repair.

The PC version uses Hornet Leader 2 as its base, so its pretty true to that.

I do agree though that maybe for a future expansion or patch, that this (and some of the original rules) are worked back into the game - even as an option the player can choose to use or not.

(in reply to CptWaspLuca)
Post #: 7
RE: Another thing I would love - 10/27/2007 4:53:38 PM   
Twilight2k3

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		A demo'ed E/F air-to-air loadout showed 10 (!) AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders. Great game BTW! I'm a longtime Falcom flyer and this is a nice change of pace.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pilgrim -- 10/27/2007 4:54:54 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Another thing I would love - 11/10/2007 10:10:51 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pilgrim

A demo'ed E/F air-to-air loadout showed 10 (!) AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders. Great game BTW! I'm a longtime Falcom flyer and this is a nice change of pace.





That is a Hornet configured with Monster Rails. Unfortunately for you John Wayne types out there Monster rails are fairly limited and any CAG would find difficulty outfitting all his up-jets in this manner. Not to mention each load has to be validated and NATOPS approved. My memory, without looking it up, says that in addition to the above this load out is not valid. Oh and then there is the number of AMRAAM in the armory of the ship, which is FAR from unlimited...

One other point. The TOPGUN recommended load out for the Fighter Tactics mission for the Super Hornet is a single Centerline, 2/2/2 & Gun or 2/0/4 & Gun, with the inboard pylons removed for. A FLIR is recommended for VID.


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Post #: 9
RE: Another thing I would love - 11/11/2007 9:13:27 PM   
hmssirius

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline 		hi Pilgrim,
I thought E/F models had square intakes? someone corrrect me if i am wrong
Blue missles means inert,They are practice rounds that can not be fired.
does look impressive none the less.

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Post #: 10
RE: Another thing I would love - 11/12/2007 11:20:32 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fishhead

hi Pilgrim,
I thought E/F models had square intakes? someone corrrect me if i am wrong
Blue missles means inert,They are practice rounds that can not be fired.
does look impressive none the less.


Yes, and yes.

Blue-tube AIM-9 and AIM-120s are known as CATM-9, and CATM-120s.

CATM = Captive Air Training Missile

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Post #: 11
RE: Another thing I would love - 11/12/2007 11:26:23 PM   
Twilight2k3

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yep...you're right...believed what I read.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 12
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