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Questions - 9/17/2007 3:56:33 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Capn !

Please, could you tell me more about the following aspects of the game ?

1) The first one seems a problem. It occurred twice in Red Hammer (at the third and at the seventh turn). Both the times I generated the turn not at the end of a same game session, but at the end of an interrupted one (opening of the turn one day, completion of it the following day). So I generated the turn not directly from my opponent's turn, but from a saved game. At the PBEM transmission screen I had to re-enter the game data. The problem is that my opponent received a turn that the game saw as the first of the scenario, but with the units at the position reached at the end of the second and sixth turn respectively. In the end, we were unable to continue the scenario.

2) In my first scenario (Soviet Tank Rush) I've decided to explore the game mechanics. So I've planned to cross the river not at the bridge south of Resenbach, but through bridges laid further south. My units reached the river bank at the end of the second turn, but till now (twelfth turn) only one of them has crossed the river. Initially I thought the delay was originated by a traffic jam, so I cleared it up, but nevertheless my units are still waiting to cross the river. Moreover two oddities arised: no unit uses the already laid bridge, and two units crossed the river during a preview move, but remained idle during the resolution phase.

3) I see my minefields (Red Hammer) and bridges (Soviet Tank Rush) only in saved games.

4) Units spotted at the end of a turn (for example, after a fight in wood against adiacent enemy units), begin the following turn unspotted.

Thanks.

Post #: 1
RE: Questions - 9/18/2007 3:58:58 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Carlo,

I'll pass these along to Rob. #3 and #4 seem to be a spotting bug of some form, similar to the preview bug (Rob has fixed this and a patch is coming out soon). #1 may be something in the PBEM routine, but I'm confused by the save game you did. Are you saying you generated a PBEM turn from a regular game save?? #2 may be a bug still lurking in the bridging routine. I've had both BMPs and Tanks cross rivers but it is very slow. I'll keep you posted on what we find.

Thanks for the info.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 2
RE: Questions - 9/18/2007 3:55:22 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		"... I'm confused by the save game you did. Are you saying you generated a PBEM turn from a regular game save??"

No. I opened my opponent's turn, gave a few orders, then saved the game. The following day I opened that saved game, gave further orders, then generated the PBEM file.


"I'll keep you posted on what we find."

Thank you.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 3
RE: Questions - 9/19/2007 12:48:32 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Thanks for the explanation, brain fade or something yesterday. I'll pass that up the chain too. Sounds like something is getting reset with the open save open pbem move. If you take the opponents turn and only do the save once does it work? Can you take a known working turn and open edit save it and see if it works? That would help us narrow the error.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 4
RE: Questions - 9/19/2007 9:12:00 AM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		I am going to test different sequencies of edit-save-generate. So, stay tuned in ...

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 5
RE: Questions - 9/19/2007 2:48:05 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Thanks.

With my current workload  I just don't have enough hours in the day to track these things down right now.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 6
RE: Questions - 9/21/2007 7:33:30 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Bad news, Capn ...

Last night I tested the game and found several bugs.


How I did the test

- scenario: Red Hammer;
- 1st player: NATO;
- increment of the PBEM file name;
- closing of FG after each save or each generation of a PBEM file.


BUGS

1) A PBEM file generated by a save has a different (disastrous) effect according to the player who made it:

a. first player: as I've already described to you (for the second player the PBEM file is a first turn that needs the repositioning of the units inside the starting area; but the units retain the movement order set the previous turn; the game can continue, but see # 9);

b. second player: the first player has to re-do his turn, but the following second player's turn lasts all (yes, all !) the remaining turns (with no order phase) and the game ends.


2) Pathfinding bug: two NATO units crossed the river by laid bridges, even if I didn't ordered so (the cause was, I think, a traffic jam at the Resenbach's bridge); because of this, they were the last units to reach their position, 2-3 turns after the others.


3) Automatic "Show all waypoints" for the NATO even if not selected.


4) Pressing Shift for creating a group: the already selected unit is deselected and not added to the group.


5) "Load a PBEM Game" and "New Game" don't work.


6) Units don't use already laid bridges: they wait until a new bridge has been completed at the very same position.


7) Sometimes in the opening screen (after a few Esc during the two introductory screens of Simulation Canada and Flashpoint Germany) is selected "Host Over a LAN".


8) Twice the first unit of a group moved to the waypoint while the others remained where they were. The idle units started to move as a group only in the following turn.


I talked to my opponent, who confirmed me that:

9) he was unable to reposition his units during the 1a (don't ask me why ...): end of the game;


10) the crossing of the river by laid bridges lasted more than expected (but less than the biblical delay I'm experiencing);


11) I saw a bridge the turn he laid it south of Rensenbach, even if I had no units able to see it.


Too many bugs, Capn ...

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 7
RE: Questions - 9/21/2007 8:46:57 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Carlo,

Thanks for the report. Many of these items I believe were fixed some time ago. Something weird happed with the code groing from 1.10 to 1.11 to 1.12. Almost like old code for a module snuck in. I'll past these items along to Rob to look at.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 8
RE: Questions - 9/25/2007 4:16:40 AM   
IronManBeta


Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		Hi Carlo - thanks for the list.  I have a few minutes so let me see if I can winnow it down at all.

1.  PBEM games are meant to be saved as 'pbm' files and not as regular 'sav' files.  I just browsed the source code and can see that some key pbem info is not saved in the sav file but rather as part of the wrapper that goes into the pbm layer that wraps around the sav file when saving pbem.  This would explain a lot of the screwy behaviour that you noted when jumping between formats.  This ought to be fixable with a little thought....

2.  Bridges - the unit pathfinders work with the situation as they know it at the instant of movement plotting.  If another unit is going to build a bridge but hasn't yet then the pathfinder will not count on using it.  It would rather build a redundant bridge than put all its eggs into one basket.

3.  If units with orders just sit for hours doing nothing then this is a bug that I need to dissect asap.  The best way by far is to send me a pbm or sav file that exhibits this behaviour and I can put it under the microscope. 

4.  Your #4 is as intended.  I took a vote of the playtesters a long time ago and this was the consensus!

I'll try to figure out the others as I work on these and post questions here as needed to clarify.

Thanks again, Rob C

_____________________________


(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 9
RE: Questions - 9/25/2007 5:23:05 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Robert !


"1. PBEM games are meant to be saved as 'pbm' files and not as regular 'sav' files. I just browsed the source code and can see that some key pbem info is not saved in the sav file but rather as part of the wrapper that goes into the pbm layer that wraps around the sav file when saving pbem. This would explain a lot of the screwy behaviour that you noted when jumping between formats. This ought to be fixable with a little thought...."

Great !


"2. Bridges - the unit pathfinders work with the situation as they know it at the instant of movement plotting. If another unit is going to build a bridge but hasn't yet then the pathfinder will not count on using it. It would rather build a redundant bridge than put all its eggs into one basket."

Unfortunately my experience is different: one unit tried to re-cross the river at the very same position only a turn later, and waited for a new bridge. I think the best way to overcome this thorny problem is to allow the player to lay and recover a few number of bridges. I don't know how many bridges equip a force at the level of FG, but potentially there could be in play more bridges than units, if each of them cross a river or a stream back and forth several times during the game.


"3. If units with orders just sit for hours doing nothing then this is a bug that I need to dissect asap. The best way by far is to send me a pbm or sav file that exhibits this behaviour and I can put it under the microscope."

Tomorrow I'm going to send you the files you need.


"4. Your #4 is as intended. I took a vote of the playtesters a long time ago and this was the consensus!"

Ok.


But I need more answers !


5. In Soviet Tank Rush I've ordered as Soviet an assault against the town south of Resenbach. It's a coordinate movement along the two banks of the river. The ETAs of the two units that have already crossed the river are shifted later on turn by turn ... But there is an oddness: the first time I inspect the waypoints, the ETAs are the same I see during the previous turn, but from the second time on, they are (and remain) shifted a turn later on.


6. I'm not sure the next one is a bug, but if it isn't, it should be removed: the repositioning back of the units at the beginning of the second player's turn. The repositioning, if needed, should be done before the visualization of the map. It makes "artificial" the second player's turn.


7. A desideratum: smoke above units, not below, at least during the resolution phase. In this way it should be evident why units unable to see through smoke don't fire at a target, if this is in a smoke courtain.


Thanks !

(in reply to IronManBeta)
Post #: 10
RE: Questions - 10/4/2007 3:42:49 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Capn,

good news !

My units in Soviet Tank Rush crossed the river in three turns during a new attempt. Yes, those same units that were previously unable to cross for ten turns ...

Why ? Because I didn't inspect their waypoints each turn, as I did during the first attempt. I'm not joking ...

This seems consistent with # 5 of my last post.

Cheers !

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 11
RE: Questions - 10/5/2007 12:09:10 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Carlo,

Passed it on to Rob. That may really help narrow the problem down. If I get a free minute tonight I'll have to test that out myself.

Thanks.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 12
RE: Questions - 10/6/2007 2:51:59 AM   
IronManBeta


Posts: 4132
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		Bingo!  I see the problem.  When the dialog finishes the game recalculates the timings of the orders all over again *and it adds in the initial command delay for a second time* which keeps pushing the jump off further into the future.  It really just needs to amend the game event stack as needed, not recreate a swath of it, so I will take care of that. 

The next game version had this area rewritten but the faulty logic was the same so I'll fix that too!

Thanks, Rob

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 13
RE: Questions - 10/6/2007 3:45:37 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Awesome news Rob.

Thanks for digging it out Carlo.

< Message edited by Capn Darwin -- 10/6/2007 3:48:12 AM >

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to IronManBeta)
Post #: 14
RE: Questions - 10/26/2007 1:27:42 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Great !

Cheers,

Carlo

(in reply to IronManBeta)
Post #: 15
RE: Questions - 10/26/2007 3:22:24 PM   
carlo.remino

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Capn !

How about the new patch ?

Carlo

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 16
RE: Questions - 10/27/2007 1:20:35 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Carlo,

I just saw e-mail the other day stating it was ready for release. I would hope to see it in the next couple of days.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to carlo.remino)
Post #: 17
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