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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up?

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I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:10:26 AM

David Clark

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Joined: 2/24/2005
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I've always enjoyed GG's Pacwar, and I've just discovered this title. Is it likely I'll enjoy WITP, or are there too many problems with the game? I plan to play exclusively against the AI. Are there problems at different time scales - is there a recommended time scale?

Thanks!

Post #: 1

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:11:36 AM

Terminus

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From: Denmark
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If it were me, I'd wait a little bit to pick up WitP. There are BIG changes coming very shortly (i.e. before the end of '07).

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RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:29:08 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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I must have missed much of the scuttlebutt. I did see that there is something new for WitP scheduled by the end of the year. I figured it was just another patch.

WitP is a descendant of Pac War. Both were designed by Gary Grigsby. War in the Pacific has some relation, but it was designed from the ground up as a new game. WitP is richer than Pac War and has a lot more detail. The turns are 1 day instead of 1 week and you get lower level detail. The graphics are better too. Of course they should be, Pac War was introduced in 1992 and WitP in 2004.

Bill

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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 3

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:29:51 AM

VSWG

Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If it were me, I'd wait a little bit to pick up WitP. There are BIG changes coming very shortly (i.e. before the end of '07).

Now you're discouraging someone to buy WitP right now because of these upcoming changes?!?!

This better be good, or I'll force you to listen to Hasselhoff music for 48 hours straight!

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:30:04 AM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Clark

I've always enjoyed GG's Pacwar, and I've just discovered this title. Is it likely I'll enjoy WITP, or are there too many problems with the game? I plan to play exclusively against the AI. Are there problems at different time scales - is there a recommended time scale?

Thanks!

Yes, No and the mystery patch should improve things (we hope), if you have important sea or land battles underway its dangerous to leave things on 3 days, so switch to 1, and use 3 day cycles to "speed" through the recovery and preparation phases between operations, but watch what the opposition is doing in case you want to jump in. The sequence runs through each day in the normal way on 3 days, so the time saving comes from not fiddling with everything and micromanaging every day, its a matter of taste.

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RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:30:51 AM

spence

Posts: 5400
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From: Vancouver, Washington
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If you've got a hi-speed connection then I'd just get it. There is supposed to be a patch...quite possibly a really big patch before the end of '07. The game is very playable as is though. Around these parts, there's a lot of b*tching but only cause everybody here likes to do that

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 6

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:55:17 AM

Terminus

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Joined: 4/23/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If it were me, I'd wait a little bit to pick up WitP. There are BIG changes coming very shortly (i.e. before the end of '07).

Now you're discouraging someone to buy WitP right now because of these upcoming changes?!?!

This better be good, or I'll force you to listen to Hasselhoff music for 48 hours straight!

Nope, sorry. He's not a god up here like he is in Germany...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 7

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 2:57:28 AM

Terminus

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Oh, and BTW? The thing that's coming is not a patch.

Night, all!

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 8

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 3:04:27 AM

VSWG

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From: Germany
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So it's going to be a 'patch we have to pay for' = Add-on?

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Post #: 9

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 3:20:29 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Terminus is right, it isn't a patch. What's happening is that Matrix is introducing a boxed, boardgame version of WitP. So now we can play head-to-head with counters just like the old days. It'll be fun to manually keep track of things like disruption, fatigue, supply levels, HQ range, etc. Imagine the complexity of the Battle Results chart! If you prefer a game against the "AI," you sit in the other seat to play the "enemy" turn. Then, when you play your turn, you try to forget what it is the "enemy" is thinking (which is the same thing as a judge instructing a jury to disregard the evidence the jury just heard).

Hmm, come to think of it, this WitP computer game is pretty dadgum good!

(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 10

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:27:30 AM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Terminus is right, it isn't a patch. What's happening is that Matrix is introducing a boxed, boardgame version of WitP. So now we can play head-to-head with counters just like the old days. It'll be fun to manually keep track of things like disruption, fatigue, supply levels, HQ range, etc. Imagine the complexity of the Battle Results chart! If you prefer a game against the "AI," you sit in the other seat to play the "enemy" turn. Then, when you play your turn, you try to forget what it is the "enemy" is thinking (which is the same thing as a judge instructing a jury to disregard the evidence the jury just heard).

We evidentally have a security leak!!

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:32:03 AM

Fishbed

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From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Well in this case, to recreate our WitP experience as well as they can, I hope they didn't forget to include the innovative "Im 0 fatigue but shall I fly today?" or the "what about moving an hex less than planned just for fun" diceroll tables to add some spice

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 12

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:36:00 AM

David Clark

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Joined: 2/24/2005
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Heh. That game is already out; it's called "War In The Pacific" by Decision Games. Seven strategic maps and dozens of island detail maps, 88 pages of rules and nine thousand counters. A group of six gamers got together to play it recently and played for six days straight. They finished five weeks of the war before packing it up.

It costs $420.

So I should hold off before buying? I guess it won't be a patch, then - it'll be something that renders the current WITP game redundant?

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 13

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:39:52 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
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From: Irving,Tx
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I say buy the game. Even right now, it is the best thing out there. I am betting on a patch.

(in reply to David Clark)

Post #: 14

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:41:14 AM

Boozecamp

Posts: 44
Joined: 7/13/2007
From: Bellingham, WA
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Beware... PacWar seems like a 100 meter dash compared to the marathon that is WitP...
I'm an old PacWar player, and if you think IT used to eat you life.... yowza.

(in reply to David Clark)

Post #: 15

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:42:26 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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No, Fishbed, you have it all wrong.

See, Matrix heard all the complaints about things that don't make sense, and about ahistorical play. So, Matrix decided to fix these "bugs" and "glitches." These are the major modifications to the new Boardgame WitP:

1. Everything is under the player's control. The player decides where to move, when to move, how far to move, the conditions under which he moves, the exact odds of combat, all combat is resolved based upon strict adherence to a flow chart so that there are no unpredicted or odd results.

2. No ahistorical play will be permitted. Matrix is a little worried that a few particularly astute players may notice a pattern developing as they play deeper into the game. This pattern begins: December 7, 1941: Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor (exact results of battle); April 1942: Doolittle Raid (exact results of the mission); April 1942: Battle of Coral Sea (exact results of battle); June 1942: Battle of Midway (exact results of battle); August 1942: Begin Battle of Guadalcanal (exact results of battle)......August 1945: Atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (exact results of bombings); August 1945: Japan surrenders. Amazingly, only three players compain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to deviate from the actual events of the war while fourteen players complain that the results were ahistorical.

(in reply to David Clark)

Post #: 16

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 4:56:34 AM

Greyshaft

Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
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What would be REALLY nice is a cut down version of WiTP that resembled PacWar in the investment of time required to complete a game. I sometimes play PacWar on my laptop on the 40 minute train trip to work and can usually get through two weeks of the war in that time. If WiTP Lite could play like that then I'd certainly be interested.

I realise that would sacrifice lots of game detail and I know WiTP is designed for the uber-realism fanatics... well, you've got your version to play with so there ain't nothing wrong with me speaking my druthers

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/Greyshaft

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Post #: 17

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 5:25:15 AM

David Clark

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Joined: 2/24/2005
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This is actually the crux of my question. I like how I can get the full war done in pacwar in a hundred hours of playing or so. I understand that WITP is more detailed, but I also see that there are selectable 7-day turns and AI functions. However, some people say that anything over 3 days per turn is broken, and that the AI doesn't work. I was hoping to abstract away some of the detail with these settings - will that work?

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 18

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 7:16:46 AM

TOMLABEL

Posts: 5116
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Alabama - ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh, and BTW? The thing that's coming is not a patch.

Night, all!

Well.... I guess I heard it here first.

TOMLABEL

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WITP Admiral's Edition: Ship & Sub Art/Base Unit Art/Map Icon Art

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(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 19

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 7:57:24 AM

AU Tiger_MatrixForum

Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

No, Fishbed, you have it all wrong.

See, Matrix heard all the complaints about things that don't make sense, and about ahistorical play. So, Matrix decided to fix these "bugs" and "glitches." These are the major modifications to the new Boardgame WitP:

1. Everything is under the player's control. The player decides where to move, when to move, how far to move, the conditions under which he moves, the exact odds of combat, all combat is resolved based upon strict adherence to a flow chart so that there are no unpredicted or odd results.

2. No ahistorical play will be permitted. Matrix is a little worried that a few particularly astute players may notice a pattern developing as they play deeper into the game. This pattern begins: December 7, 1941: Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor (exact results of battle); April 1942: Doolittle Raid (exact results of the mission); April 1942: Battle of Coral Sea (exact results of battle); June 1942: Battle of Midway (exact results of battle); August 1942: Begin Battle of Guadalcanal (exact results of battle)......August 1945: Atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (exact results of bombings); August 1945: Japan surrenders. Amazingly, only three players compain that it is IMPOSSIBLE to deviate from the actual events of the war while fourteen players complain that the results were ahistorical.

_____________________________

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Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 20

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 9:23:36 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
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quote:

I like how I can get the full war done in pacwar in a hundred hours of playing or so. I understand that WITP is more detailed, but I also see that there are selectable 7-day turns and AI functions. However, some people say that anything over 3 days per turn is broken, and that the AI doesn't work. I was hoping to abstract away some of the detail with these settings - will that work?

David, that's a fair question. I enjoyed PacWar too, but I enjoy WiTP more, even though it takes forever to play the thing. I've become accustomed to being able to direct where each ship goes every day, and being able to reset air missions and fuss with submarines and whatever else. I'm reluctant to give up that level of control by going to 3-day turns. But some people do swear by 2- and 3-day turns. You can find a few 2-day PBEM AARs in the AAR forum here; those players invariably swear that 2-day turns are the only way to go.

WiTP isn't perfect -- far from it -- but it's the best treatment of the subject you'll find for the PC. I certainly wouldn't wait to buy it just because some mystery thing is coming in December. (I'm betting on an expansion pack.) The only reason not to buy it is the admittedly hefty price tag. For me, that price tag has been amortized over four years of enjoyment. :)

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)

Post #: 21

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 9:35:18 AM

Gen.Hoepner

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From: italy
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This is a must-game to have. If you enjoyed pacwar you're gonna love this one!!!
And the "prooved proove" that this game is far from being broken is that the people you see posting here is playing this gme since the beginning!!!! And we still enjoy it, a lot!

Plus, witp has probably (maybe along with SPWAW) the best wargaming comunity-forum around the web

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RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 10:47:58 AM

wild_Willie2

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Terminus, you are SUCH A TEASE...

I guess we will hear about the intergration of carriers at war into WITP.

You can play normal turns but you can than fight CV battles in REAL TIME....

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Post #: 23

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 11:53:14 AM

Gen.Hoepner

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From: italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Terminus, you are SUCH A TEASE...

I guess we will hear about the intergration of carriers at war into WITP.

You can play normal turns but you can than�fight CV battles in REAL TIME....

Well...ok, that will be simply AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....but i wonder however how much more time will it take to master this game...

And for Pbem? how will you combine the real-time feature with pbem? would be problematic

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Post #: 24

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 12:33:30 PM

Historiker

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From: Deutschland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If it were me, I'd wait a little bit to pick up WitP. There are BIG changes coming very shortly (i.e. before the end of '07).

Now you're discouraging someone to buy WitP right now because of these upcoming changes?!?!

This better be good, or I'll force you to listen to Hasselhoff music for 48 hours straight!

I've been looking for freedom... I've been looking so long! *sing*

Yeah, the Hoff!

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(in reply to VSWG)

Post #: 25

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 1:24:15 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Terminus, you are SUCH A TEASE...

I guess we will hear about the intergration of carriers at war into WITP.

You can play normal turns but you can than fight CV battles in REAL TIME....

With all the wild speculation about what's coming, we will likely be disappointed with whatever it is. I doubt that it is too big because I haven't heard any more programmers were added in the last year or so.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 26

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 1:24:32 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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Hmmmm, never quite figured out what our tutonic neighbors to the east liked about the "hof"...... This goes for slager songs in general btw.....

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Post #: 27

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 1:26:24 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Terminus, you are SUCH A TEASE...

I guess we will hear about the intergration of carriers at war into WITP.

You can play normal turns but you can than fight CV battles in REAL TIME....

With all the wild speculation about what's coming, we will likely be disappointed with whatever it is. I doubt that it is too big because I haven't heard any more programmers were added in the last year or so.

Bill

Adding CAW would not need much reprogramming, just import your TF's into the CAW engine, run the game, and export the results back into WITP.....

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 28

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 1:26:45 PM

Terminus

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Nobody else knows either...

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Post #: 29

RE: I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up? - 10/30/2007 1:38:56 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Terminus, you are SUCH A TEASE...

I guess we will hear about the intergration of carriers at war into WITP.

You can play normal turns but you can than fight CV battles in REAL TIME....

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
With all the wild speculation about what's coming, we will likely be disappointed with whatever it is. I doubt that it is too big because I haven't heard any more programmers were added in the last year or so.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2
Adding CAW would not need much reprogramming, just import your TF's into the CAW engine, run the game, and export the results back into WITP.....

Easier said than done. If CAW was designed from the ground up to be data compatible with WitP, a version that was probably extremely buggy could probably be cobbled together in a couple of months. However it would likely be very unstable.

I'm an Electronic and Software Engineer. Projects always take longer than the engineers estimate and the engineer's estimate is always about 5 - 10 times longer than what non-technical management wants. It may look easy, but it rarely is.

Early in my career I got ticked off at my pointy haired boss (as in Dilbert) and got very good at making schedules. I ended up with very accurate schedules, which always shocked me at how long they were when I was done. However, every time I made one of those super detailed schedules, I ended up finishing very close to when I said I would. I also got yelled at by a lot of managers for turning in such a long schedule.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 30

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> I like pacwar. Should I pick this one up?

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