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Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 3:26:38 PM   
Fungwu

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
Status: offline 		In the scenario editor, where do I set maximum combat rounds?
-Thank you
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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 3:57:22 PM   
golden delicious


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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		You're thinking of the "Max Rounds Per Battle" setting, which controls the maximum duration of each combat (not the number of rounds in a turn).

I think this option appears in the "Edit" menu when in the deployment editor.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 4:46:05 PM   
Fungwu

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks, I found it.

BTW, is there any reason that this isn't set for 1 in every scenario? It is pretty annoying when 3 million men have to stand still for a week because 1 unit decides to continue its attack 4 times.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 6:35:40 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fungwu

Thanks, I found it.

BTW, is there any reason that this isn't set for 1 in every scenario? It is pretty annoying when 3 million men have to stand still for a week because 1 unit decides to continue its attack 4 times.


Well, TOAW's an operational game. 3 million men is stretching the scale.

Anyway, two reasons;
a) things go wrong and armies get left badly deployed when the enemy counterattack comes in. It's certainly annoying, but the game is less realistic without it.
b) if every attack lasted only one round, you might actually have a hard time advancing.

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"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 6:55:24 PM   
Fungwu

 

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Status: offline 		"Well, TOAW's an operational game. 3 million men is stretching the scale.

Anyway, two reasons;
a) things go wrong and armies get left badly deployed when the enemy counterattack comes in. It's certainly annoying, but the game is less realistic without it.
b) if every attack lasted only one round, you might actually have a hard time advancing."

Well I got 3 million from the german strength for Operation Barbarossa which I thought was the most popular operation, so I would argue it actually is probably one of the most common amount of men.

What I have in mind is that you have 20 possible attacks planned, You send out the orders Division 1+2+3 attack on day 1, Division 4-20 advance to your objectives and the orders to attack will be given on day 2. But Division 1 meets unexpected resistance at it objective so for 6 days hundreds of kilometers of front are paralysed because division 1 is still fighting. Meanwhile just setting max combat rounds to 1 fixes this problem, division 1 breaks off its attack and you can give orders to the other 2,980,000 of your men.

As for advancing, if your attack breaks off after one round you can attack again, and again, and again, until you advance. You can have round 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8 to attack so you can actually advance further.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 7:02:22 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fungwu

Well I got 3 million from the german strength for Operation Barbarossa which I thought was the most popular operation, so I would argue it actually is probably one of the most common amount of men.


The large scenarios tend to be popular but they are unarguably at the extreme of TOAW's range of scales.

quote:

What I have in mind is that you have 20 possible attacks planned, You send out the orders Division 1+2+3 attack on day 1, Division 4-20 advance to your objectives and the orders to attack will be given on day 2. But Division 1 meets unexpected resistance at it objective so for 6 days hundreds of kilometers of front are paralysed because division 1 is still fighting. Meanwhile just setting max combat rounds to 1 fixes this problem, division 1 breaks off its attack and you can give orders to the other 2,980,000 of your men.


I'm not going to deny there's a problem. However, if every battle ended after one round you would have near-perfect control of the battles. This just isn't appropriate. Once you're engaged, it just isn't easy to break off. Further, the problem you describe can be ameliorated by planning attacks more carefully. That fortified tank brigade? That's not going to go down without a fight.

quote:

You can have round 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8 to attack so you can actually advance further.


Your opponent would have something to complain about in this case.

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"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 6
RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/5/2007 10:58:51 PM   
desert


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Status: offline 		In Birth of America, you give orders to your units and then watch them move around and fight until the turn, which is a month long, is over. The enemy moves at the same time as you. This is similar to the 1-minute turns in Combat Mission; you give your men orders, and when you start the turn everyone in the scenario (including the enemy) follows their orders. Could something like that be possible in TOAW?

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/6/2007 1:12:24 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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Status: offline 		Here wego again...

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/6/2007 1:21:41 AM   
vahauser


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Status: offline 		Heh.

Sheesh.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/6/2007 2:46:16 AM   
desert


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"I would rather he had given me one more division"
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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/6/2007 2:55:06 AM   
vahauser


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Status: offline 		desert,

What you are describing is a game engine known as WEGO.  In a WEGO game system, both sides issue orders at the same time and both sides execute their turns as the same time.  Hence the moniker "WEGO" (which stands for 'We Go', instead of the IGYG game system, which stands for 'I go You go' in which each side executes their player turn separately.  TOAW III is an IGYG game system and not a WEGO game system.  What you were describing in your previous post was a WEGO game system.

There are fanatic advocates of WEGO and there are fanatic advocates of IGYG.  I, personally, hope to see a day when there will be a "synthesis" of IGYG with WEGO (using the best features of both systems).  But that day is not this day.

Anyway, there you have it.  TOAW III is not the kind of game system you were describing in your post above.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/6/2007 3:08:52 AM   
desert


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Status: offline 		I was just throwing out ideas, but I am familiar with those terms. I thought for a minute...and now I understand JAMiAMs joke.

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"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

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Post #: 12
RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/9/2007 8:24:07 AM   
ColinWright

 

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Status: offline 		The thing is, unpredictable length of battles means that turns end unpredictably -- and create the possibility that the enemy may be able to interrupt your carefully laid plans with his carefully-laid plans. Even if not all the turn is used, if it turns out that 80% was used instead of that 20% you'd been counting on, you may not be able to complete that encirclement before the enemy withdraws.

It's not WEGO -- but it is a way of getting the same effect.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/9/2007 10:51:00 PM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fungwu
. . . is there any reason that this isn't set for 1 in every scenario?


This is a question for those who understand what happens inside the game engine.

My understanding is that attacks/battles that are set to Limit losses require 2 rounds and attacks set at Ignore losses require 3. If the MRPB is set to 1, would not this preclude anything other than attacks set to Minimize losses?

Regards, RhinoBones

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Post #: 14
RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/9/2007 10:54:25 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
My understanding is that attacks/battles that are set to Limit losses require 2 rounds and attacks set at Ignore losses require 3. If the MRPB is set to 1, would not this preclude anything other than attacks set to Minimize losses?

This is only true for ranged bombardment, with either air or artillery. It is not true for battles. For battles, the loss tolerance influences whether a unit breaks off, or retreats, from the battle.

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RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/9/2007 11:58:56 PM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
This is only true for ranged bombardment, with either air or artillery. It is not true for battles. For battles, the loss tolerance influences whether a unit breaks off, or retreats, from the battle.


Thanks for the information. Another fine point of TOAW that is new to me.

Guess the next question would be whether the next update could make it possible to have side specific MRPBs and also MRPB controlled by the event structure?

Regards, RhinoBones

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Post #: 16
RE: Maximum Combat Rounds - 11/12/2007 2:18:33 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


Thanks for the information. Another fine point of TOAW that is new to me.

Guess the next question would be whether the next update could make it possible to have side specific MRPBs and also MRPB controlled by the event structure?

Regards, RhinoBones



I could see the former being especially valuable.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 17
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