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Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 2:32:21 PM   
Rommel3

 

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I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.



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< Message edited by Rommel3 -- 11/8/2007 2:47:11 PM >
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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 2:55:26 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)



strange.




that´s the game...

have you checked what terrain the hexes are? The graphic isn´t 100% correct and what looks like jungle hexes could be a clear hex or whatever. You can only be sure by clicking on "1" to see what terrain it is.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 11/8/2007 2:57:05 PM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 2:58:12 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)

I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.




i heard units can still retreat up to 1000 "movement points" from supply, but i've only heard that here on the forum (never seen it as an "official" pronouncement") - 1000 pts sounds excessive in my experience, but it is generally >100 movement pts., as you are seeing here. The unit should not be able to draw supplies at this distance from the base, however.

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 5:39:28 PM   
Panther Bait


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Status: offline 		I find that many garrisons can retreat one hex, regardless of supply lines.  Happened to me at Tarakan, Brunei (or Miri), Balikpapan on Borneo.  I usually find that the retreated unit will not retreat a second time, if you move a combat unit up and attack again.

Could it be possible that the retreat supply calculation happens before the base capture?  So that the supply line is actually coming from the about-to-be-captured base? 

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 5:48:19 PM   
rtrapasso


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Status: offline 		i've never had Allied garrisons retreat unless there is a traceable supply line - if there is no clear supply line, they are eliminated instead.

Once they are out of the base, thought, they must be reduced gradually. They don't retreat further if not close enough to get supply from the base, but if they are on a road close to a base they will retreat (assuming there is a clear line not blocked by enemy ZOCs).

Japanese units remain in a base if there is no clear supply line, and are not easily eliminated. They behave the same was as Allied units if not in a base, i.e., they will retreat towards a base if on a road near the base (with an intact supply line).

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 11/8/2007 5:49:23 PM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 7:50:37 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)

I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.




i heard units can still retreat up to 1000 "movement points" from supply, but i've only heard that here on the forum (never seen it as an "official" pronouncement") - 1000 pts sounds excessive in my experience, but it is generally >100 movement pts., as you are seeing here. The unit should not be able to draw supplies at this distance from the base, however.


For purposes of retreating, a unit can trace a supply LOC 900 supply movement points. It's in TFM.

So, if you can trace an LOC of essentially unlimited length (18 hexes through jungle/mountain) to another supply source on the same landmass, you may retreat.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 11/8/2007 7:52:37 PM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 7:52:19 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)

I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.




i heard units can still retreat up to 1000 "movement points" from supply, but i've only heard that here on the forum (never seen it as an "official" pronouncement") - 1000 pts sounds excessive in my experience, but it is generally >100 movement pts., as you are seeing here. The unit should not be able to draw supplies at this distance from the base, however.


For purposes of retreating, a unit can trace a supply LOC 900 supply movement points. It's in TFM.


TFM??

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 7:53:36 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)

I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.




i heard units can still retreat up to 1000 "movement points" from supply, but i've only heard that here on the forum (never seen it as an "official" pronouncement") - 1000 pts sounds excessive in my experience, but it is generally >100 movement pts., as you are seeing here. The unit should not be able to draw supplies at this distance from the base, however.


For purposes of retreating, a unit can trace a supply LOC 900 supply movement points. It's in TFM.


TFM??


The "Friendly" Manual.

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 7:59:56 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

(I'm poor at english)

I 'v captured manado. I'v supposed the garrison unit could not retreat but surrender. Nearest friendly base is tomini. tomini->The hex retreated supply value is 100-50-50-25-25=-50.
This is not positive supply value.

strange.




i heard units can still retreat up to 1000 "movement points" from supply, but i've only heard that here on the forum (never seen it as an "official" pronouncement") - 1000 pts sounds excessive in my experience, but it is generally >100 movement pts., as you are seeing here. The unit should not be able to draw supplies at this distance from the base, however.


For purposes of retreating, a unit can trace a supply LOC 900 supply movement points. It's in TFM.


TFM??


The "Friendly" Manual.



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Post #: 9
RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 8:12:17 PM   
Mynok


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I thought it was the The False Manual.

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/8/2007 11:38:45 PM   
Rainer

 

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/9/2007 12:31:45 AM   
rtrapasso


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Status: offline 		i think Irrelevant might have been referring to another word starting with "f"... one that might have been censored by the forum software.

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/9/2007 4:56:46 AM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i think Irrelevant might have been referring to another word starting with "f"... one that might have been censored by the forum software.

That would be correct; as in, "Have you tried just reading TFM?!?"

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/9/2007 7:11:48 PM   
Rommel3

 

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Status: offline 		It's not simple. I'v captured another ally Base Balikpapan. This time they did not retreat but surrender. Nearest Friendly base Bandjermasin, 900-(25x3)-50=775 ; positive.
(Samarinda was contested hex.)



< Message edited by Rommel3 -- 11/9/2007 7:16:32 PM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/9/2007 7:22:56 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

It's not simple. I'v captured another ally Base Balikpapan. This time they did not retreat but surrender. Nearest Friendly base Bandjermasin, 900-(25x3)-50=775 ; positive.
(Samarinda was contested hex.)




Yes - i am not sure the manual is correct about the 900, but if you could post a map that might be useful.

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Post #: 15
RE: Force to retreat - 11/9/2007 11:34:51 PM   
Rommel3

 

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Status: offline 		Here is the map.




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< Message edited by Rommel3 -- 11/9/2007 11:35:55 PM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 1:01:15 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rommel3

Here is the map.





Looks a lot less than 900 points away from Bandjermasin... were there supplies at B?

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 1:02:32 AM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		That was going to be my question, the LOC is traced to a "supply source"

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 4:18:15 AM   
Rommel3

 

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Status: offline 		Yes, There were more than 8000 supplies in B




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< Message edited by Rommel3 -- 11/10/2007 4:20:24 AM >

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RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 4:20:57 AM   
tsimmonds


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  • they can't retreat to the NW (blocked hexside), or
  • bad die roll.


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RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 4:29:07 AM   
Rommel3

 

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Status: offline 		West are blocked by sea, But NW is green line. 
Is Dice roll applied to retreat?

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Post #: 21
RE: Force to retreat - 11/10/2007 4:33:47 AM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		Everything gets a die roll. You get a die roll to take a dump, son

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