House Rules for FitE 5.0 ??

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House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 6:57:00 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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Will somebody either link me to the "Official House Rules" for FitE 5.0, or post said "Official House Rules" in this thread.

Thank you.

--V

P.S. I don't know if this is the appropriate sub-forum to post this request. Feel free to move this thread to the appropriate thread as necessary.

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 7:06:34 AM

desert

Posts: 827
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HOUSE RULES - VERY IMPORTANT (If in doubt use common sense or contact scenario designers):
1) Minors may not stack, or attack together with other minors. (Exception: Swedes may stack and attack with Finns)
2) Hungarian, Rumanian and Slovakian units may not move before turn 4. The Finns may not move until turn 6. THIS IS REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE ACTIVATED BEFORE TURN 4 AND 6. If the Soviet forces moves into the respectivly minors, or attack any of their units, this restriction is lifted.
3) Only Inf type units (Mtns, Marine, JG etc., NOT Cav, Mot., Armored, Art, HQ ect. ) may invade. Only 1 Division for the Axis may invade pr. turn. Soviet forces may invade with (Current year-1940) divisions each turn. E.g. this means the Soviet player may invade with 5 Divisions in 1945 and one in 1941.
Invasion is defined as entering a hex that's enemy controlled BEFORE the turn started. This is regardless of whether the hex was occupied by enemy units.
4) Units are not allowed to paradrop more than 10 hexes away from friendly land units able to trace a supply path to a friendly supply source.
5) The only HQ allowed to airlift behind enemy lines are the 7th FJ Div HQ
6) The Finns may not move south of the original border north of Leningrad (line marked on map), or south of the Svir River at the Karelian ness (marked), east of the line by Karhumäki (marked) and across the old border by Salla (marked), untill turn 40.
Further more, given the special circumstance of the historic involvement of the Finns, they are not allowed embark on ships or attack into ANY Leningrad or Murmansk hexes. If Leningrad falls the restrictions on the Finns are lifted.
7) The Axis player may only send one German division or three air formations to Finland. This is in addition to German divisions that start or enters as reinforcement in Finland and Norway.
Only two GERMAN divisions may be in or attack out from the southern part of Finland at any time. (Area below the non-playable, black area)
All restriction on the German forces are lifted on turn 136 or if Sweden joins the war.
8) Axis forces are not allowed to enter the foot of Italy.
9) No ground attacks may be made from non-active minor countries. (Finland from turn 6, Hungary and Rumania from turn 4)
10) No units are allowed to enter Sweden unless Sweden joins the Axis by the use of Theater Options. No Swedish units must be moved unless Sweden has been activated.
11) After the German Case Blau offensive in 1942 Theater Options appear for the Axis to bully Sweden and/or Turkey to join them. THIS THEATER OPTION IS PURELY OPTIONAL AND SHOULD BE DISCUSSED BETWEEN THE TWO PLAYERS BEFORE THE GAME BEGINS. IT IS JUST TO ADD FLAVOR TO THE SCENARIO.
12) Units may ONLY be disbanded if they are in a city hex (minor or major) AND are able to trace a supply path to a friendly supply source. Remember you cannot trace supply in enemy Zone Of Control unless that hex contains a friendly units.
13) Slovak, Hungarian, Turkish and Rumanian units may not enter Finland.

Additional Theater Option List
Send Ultimatum to Sweden to stop sending iron ore to Germany: (Russia)
This option is available from turn 1, and through out the game. If Russia plays this option, the Swedes (the German player) will face two Theater options, representing the two possible responses. He can either "Refuse Soviet Demands" or "Agree to Soviet Demands". If he chooses to agree the German replacements will drop 10%, but Sweden remains neutral. If he chooses to refuse the demands there will be no immediate effect on German replacements, but Sweden will join the war. The catch in refusing is that although the German player gets control of the Swedish army and suffer no immediate replacement loss, he may in the end loose more replacements than 10% as there are two 5% cities and one 10% city in Sweden. (Stokholm, Göteborg and Malmberget).
If the German player fails to respond to the demands, war will automatically be declared after 3 turns.
Most of the Swedish army will enter the map once war is declared, but some units (reinforcements) may enter earlier. NO SWEDISH UNITS MAY BE MOVED BEFORE WAR IS DECLEARED.
RAF and US Intervention force activates if war is declared.
Invade Iran (Russia)
This option is available from turn 21 and onwards. If chosen the exclusion zone in Persia disappears and war exists between Russia and Persia. This will activate the Russian 45th and 47th army. It will also activate the Persian army.
Invade Turkey (Russia)
This option is available from turn 30 and onwards. If chosen the exclusion zone around Turkey will disappear and war exists between Turkey and Russia. This will activate the Turkish army as well as the 44th Russian army. RAF in Italy will activate 30 turns after war is declared.
Request US air support (Russia)
This option becomes available if Turkey joins the war in any other way than a Soviet declaration of war. If chosen US Intervention force will arrive within 4 turns.
Complete Battleships (Russia)
This option will be available on turn 47 and disappear on turn 100. If chosen Russia will have an immediate 5% drop in replacements. 104 turns (one year) after the option is chosen the Soviet supply will increase with 4 due to safer lend-lease lines. He also gets a naval unit south of Sukhumi (hex 220,251). This unit has: 1 Battleship, 2 Battle cruisers and 4 Destroyers. He also gets two naval units west of Leningrad (hex 138,68). Each of these units has: 1 Battleship, 2 Battle cruisers and 4 Destroyers. In addition to all this, 3 Battleship, 4 Battle cruisers and 12 Destroyers are placed into the soviet replacement pool.
Complete Panzer brigades (Germany)
This option becomes available on turn 317, and disappears on turn 318. If chosen 10 panzer brigades will arrive as reinforcements for the German player. If not chosen, the equipment from the 10 panzer brigades + additional 125% is placed in the German replacement pool on turn 321. This means it is a choice between more units or more equipment. Historical production is reached by choosing to form the brigades.
Allow Germans To Bully Turkey And Sweden Into the War (Russia)
!!!!!OPTIONAL!!!!!!
This option is available from turn 1 and onwards. If chosen it will allow the German player to bully Turkey and Sweden into the war on their side.
Players should discuss if or when this option is to be selected.

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 2

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 7:42:38 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
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desert,

Thank you. I am learning how to play this scenario. Soon I will want to learn how to play this scenario PBEM. Then I'll be looking for an opponent.

--V

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Post #: 3

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 10:44:12 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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There were some changes done for 7.0 :

1. Set areas in Finland to impassable.
2. Changed the 78th Sturm div to enter in 42, changed it's equipment. Added a 78th Inf Div.
3. Added German supply reduction around turn 22 (4 turn delay) by 5 and reduced supply radius to 3.
4. Reduced German supply radius to 2 during first mud and froze supply units.(unfrozen after mud)
5. Didn't withdraw supply units.
6. Set german supply radius to 3 after mud for entire game.
7. Set soviet supply radius to 3 after winter offensive (starts at 4, goes to 5 for the winter offensive)
8. Changed shock for all mud turns for both sides.
9. Changed shock for soviet air units.

Although we haven't seen much feedback on these changes since they were done. PM me if you want 7.0.

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 4

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 10:46:25 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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Good grief, I just remembered there is an original 5.0 and a modded 5.0. I was referring above to the '5.0 modded to 7.0', not the 'original 5.0'.

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Post #: 5

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 11:08:53 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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sPzAbt653,

Yes, I would like the latest "official" version of FitE. If that is version 7.0 then yes, please.

vahauser51 (at) yahoo (dot) com

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Post #: 6

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 12:27:10 PM

Karri

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I've played two games with the modded version now, and it seems to be quite much easier for Axis. In the first one I was defending as Soviets, and my first line of defence was crushed easily. However I managed to build another line to protect Moscow...had to give up quite much land in South though. My opponent disappeared at around turn 20 though..here's the final screenshot(lines are somewhat historical):

In another game I was Axis and by turn 20 had beat my opponent(who was new to FitE though). But still, this scenario is now much harder for Soviets, which I think is good.

So far in both games the action has concentrated in North(as it does in a third game I am playing) while the South simply needs to give up because there are no troops to be sent there. I think this is good.

< Message edited by Karri -- 11/10/2007 12:29:18 PM >

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 1:31:49 PM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
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From: Texas
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Karri,

If you played both sides in a hotseat game, could you win as the Soviet player if you also were playing the Germans?

I personally think that historically the Germans had very little chance to win (maybe 10%) against the Soviets. That is based on all the history I've read about the War in the East.

Anyway, if you think that the Buzz version 7.0 mod favors the Germans, then I'm not sure that that is very close to history. I think that any FitE scenario should very much favor the Soviets. At least historically speaking.

_____________________________

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Post #: 8

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 2:02:01 PM

DesertedFox

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Karri. looking at your second game with the modded 5.0, I must say, that either the new mod is broken or your opponent completely useless. No way can the Germans get as far as you did by turn 20.

Whats wrong with the standard 5.0 version? I have played it as Germans and Russians and it appears to be balanced. I know Monkeys Brain has come out and said that if the Russinas play it right, they can't loose (I tend to agree) but only because of the inerperience or poor porformance of the German players.

I am definatley not in favor of playing with another version that appears to give so much extra to the Germans.

Regards,

Mark

Oh and the house rules I use in addition to those given,

No disbanding of units and good Finns rules I found on this forum that allow Finns unrestricted attacks on the Leningrad peninsular and limited attacks elsewhere.

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 9

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 8:33:29 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Karri. looking at your second game with the modded 5.0, I must say, that either the new mod is broken or your opponent completely useless. No way can the Germans get as far as you did by turn 20.

As I said,he's new to FitE. Defending too far forward, not doing everything possible to slow me down etc. etc.

quote:

Whats wrong with the standard 5.0 version? I have played it as Germans and Russians and it appears to be balanced. I know Monkeys Brain has come out and said that if the Russinas play it right, they can't loose (I tend to agree) but only because of the inerperience or poor porformance of the German players.

Put two players of similar skill to play and 9 times out of 10 the Soviets win. That one german victory is due to Soviets thinking he doesn't have a chance. Even with a good Axis player it's hard to win should the war drag beyond '41.

quote:

I am definatley not in favor of playing with another version that appears to give so much extra to the Germans.

There's not much 'extra' given. In the game where I was playing as Soviets I was able to stop the axis in pretty much historical lines. If you compare that to 'Vanilla' FitE where you can stop the axis far away from the historical lines, and switch to offensive well before the winter. All the mod does is balancing the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

If you played both sides in a hotseat game, could you win as the Soviet player if you also were playing the Germans?

Easily.

quote:

I personally think that historically the Germans had very little chance to win (maybe 10%) against the Soviets. That is based on all the history I've read about the War in the East.

The problem being that even if Axis does much better than IRL they still have nearly zero chance of winning unless Moscow falls. Even if you capture Leningrad and Stalingrad in '41 there is no guarantee of victory.

quote:

Anyway, if you think that the Buzz version 7.0 mod favors the Germans, then I'm not sure that that is very close to history. I think that any FitE scenario should very much favor the Soviets. At least historically speaking.

It favors the Soviet quite too much...and still, it's a game.

< Message edited by Karri -- 11/10/2007 8:37:06 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 9:38:58 PM

desert

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Would Germany have defeated the Soviet Union if they crushed the French and British at Dunkirk in May 1940 and Churchill sued for peace?

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

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Post #: 11

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 10:31:00 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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If Moscow had fallen, Stalin had plans to retreat behind the Urals. From there he would wait up to two years while rebuilding a vast army, using all the assistance given from the west. The Germans had no plans to advance beyond the Urals. It would have taken time but eventually the little German nation of 80 million with few friends in the occupied countries would have been defeated by the 100's of millions in the free world opposed to them. Nothing would have defeated the Soviet Union.

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Post #: 12

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/10/2007 10:51:17 PM

desert

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What free world? The Soviet Union only had about 180 million citizens during the time of the invasion, and it's doubtful the Americans would have just decided to invade Germany after Britain had quit.

_____________________________

"I would rather he had given me one more division"
- Rommel, when Hitler made him a Field Marshall

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 13

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 12:33:57 AM

vahauser

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desert,

Nukes were originally intended to be dropped on Germany and not Japan. Germany was not going to win WW2.

But this is straying far off-topic.

In Karri's opinion the FitE mod 7.0 is an improvement over FitE 5.0 and that's all I asked him.

However, Karri did qualify what he said because he said that it is just a game. I interpret this to mean that the FitE mod 7.0 is not very historical.

I suppose I can live with that (although I'd prefer historical OOBs). And if Karri believes that a good Soviet player will beat a good German player most of the time when playing the FitE mod 7.0, then I think as a game it has succeeded, even if it is not very historical.

Has anybody else played FitE mod 7.0?

_____________________________

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Post #: 14

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 1:56:20 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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I interpret this to mean that the FitE mod 7.0 is not very historical.

I wouldn't think this was the case, as the main changes made were designed to make it a little more difficult for the Soviet side at the beginning of the scenario. Many players found themselves faced with not being able to get past Smolensk. The Soviet side still gets many units and huge replacements. In the context of the scenario compared to historical reality, the German side would have the run of the show for about the first 100 turns and from there on it would be a defensive struggle to keep the Soviet forces back. This is what the aim was in the mod. There were changes made to supply, shock effects and some rules about disbanding and withdrawing from the frontier. There were also some minor changes made to the oob's to increase historical accuracy (as it was found that more information has become available since the original design process began years ago).

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 2:37:08 AM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

However, Karri did qualify what he said because he said that it is just a game. I interpret this to mean that the FitE mod 7.0 is not very historical.

I suppose I can live with that (although I'd prefer historical OOBs). And if Karri believes that a good Soviet player will beat a good German player most of the time when playing the FitE mod 7.0, then I think as a game it has succeeded, even if it is not very historical.

Has anybody else played FitE mod 7.0?

I rather ment that if it's unhistorical it doesn't matter to me, since I prefer gameplay over 'reenacting'. I don't think it really is any more unhistorical than normal FitE. And as I said, the one game where I was playing as Soviets ended up with pretty much historical lines, which so far had not happened in a single fite game so far.

And lastly, regarding the victor in the modded FitE. Can't say much about that as I haven't had enough games yet. However I am pretty certain that the modded version has far greater potential of continuing beying '41...as most FitE games end before or during the Soviet Winter Offensive.

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 16

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 2:46:21 AM

vahauser

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From: Texas
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sPzAbt653,

There is a new massive Europa boardgame that's going to be released within the next few months called "Total War" which is a total re-make of their Fire in the East game. Anyway, Total War has the most historically accurate and up-to-date OOB ever created for the War in the East.

I would love to see that OOB translated into TOAW III FitE. Also, Total War has all kinds of special rules regarding the Finns and disbanding, etc. Many of the rules in Total War handle exactly the kinds of issues being discussed here (and as House Rules) regarding the TOAW version of FitE.

Total War is probably the most historically accurate game ever made regarding the War in the East. Since the map is 25km/hex, we probably can't get much use out of it for the TOAW version of FitE, but I do know that it took the designers (and Arthur Goodwin might be the best in the business when it comes to making historical game maps) over 10 years' research to do that map. And the research on the OOBs has been going on for at least 15 years (Charles Sharp, the military historian who did the Soviet OOB used access to the recently released Soviet archives to help produce that Soviet OOB). And Jason Long (who took over from me when I left the company) has spent the last 15 years improving all of my old air ratings and air OOBs. He has done a great job. He runs two websites: Panzerkeil (dot) com, and Sturmvogel (dot) com. You should check them out.

So, when Total War is released, then we will have the most historically accurate information ever made available, to use (if we want to) for the TOAW version of FitE. I'm really looking forward to that.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 2:58:25 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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Karri,

Thank you for bringing up the most important reason involved in playing FitE.� Fun.� It's no fun for the Soviets to get the crap beat out of them in 1941-42, only to have the German player quit playing when the Soviets start beating on him in 1943.

I used to have a standard agreement with everybody I used to play Fire in the East/Scorched Earth with.� Each player put $100 into the pot.� If the game went until the end, then each player got their money back.� But if a player quit before the game ended, then he forfeited his $100 to the other player.� That was back in the 1980s and 1990s.� Nowadays, I'd probably want each player to ante up�$250.� That money represents the enormous time investment in the game.� I don't want to play the Soviets and suffer all that abuse in 1941-42�if I believe that the German player will quit if the game turns against him.

Anyway, sPzAbt653 was kind enough to email the FitE mod 7.0 and I'm starting to take a look at it.� And thank you for your helpful comments regarding this scenario.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 11/11/2007 3:01:20 AM >

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 5:51:50 AM

Bloke

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quote:

3) Only Inf type units (Mtns, Marine, JG etc., NOT Cav, Mot., Armored, Art, HQ ect. ) may invade. Only 1 Division for the Axis may invade pr. turn. Soviet forces may invade with (Current year-1940) divisions each turn. E.g. this means the Soviet player may invade with 5 Divisions in 1945 and one in 1941.
Invasion is defined as entering a hex that's enemy controlled BEFORE the turn started. This is regardless of whether the hex was occupied by enemy units.

I must have misunderstood this. It appears to mean that all the fastest units (Armoured, motorised and Cav) can only move into a hex controlled by the enemy at the start of a turn if a friendly Inf type unit has passed through it during that turn? How does this work in game terms, surely it would make armoured manouvre impossible? It appears to restrict a WW2 army to WW1 rates of advance?

Be gentle with me, I'm popping my cherry with this post.

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 6:10:28 AM

DesertedFox

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Hi Bloke, well I will bw gentle, that is in reference to INVASIONS BY SEA.

Hope that didn't hurt tooooooooooo much.

Okay, now for some serious business.

I am looking for a GOOD Soviet player, standard FITE 5.0, with two rule mods, as noted above in previous post.

I am not yet convinced the game favours the Russians if the Germans play it smart.

German players aslo need to understand that if the Russians occupy the hex next to Berlin on the last turn of the game, then the Germans win. You do NOT have to capture every Russian city to win (of course that would help).

Anyway, if you have played the scenario and are good as the Russians than anti up because I still believe that the scenario is balanced. By the way, I do prefer to play the Russians is much less of a brain drain, but playing the Germans is such a challenge I am enjoying it.

My email is,

holeydooley hot mail etc etc

Mark

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RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 7:22:20 AM

Bloke

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quote:

Hi Bloke, well I will bw gentle, that is in reference to INVASIONS BY SEA.

Hope that didn't hurt tooooooooooo much.

Excuse me for expecting a definition of a restriction to actually describe the restriction being defined. Its says 'entering a hex thats enemy controlled', it does not say 'entering a hex by sea thats enemy controlled'. I would have understood what was meant by 'invasion' if the definition supplied hadn't contradicted my understanding by its vagueness. Sorry to drag you away from your 'serious' buisiness. Hope it wasnt tooooooooooo boring for you.

_____________________________

''You will learn nothing from history that can be applied so don't kid yourself into thinking you can.''

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Post #: 21

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/11/2007 7:27:33 AM

vahauser

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From: Texas
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Deserted Fox,

Perhaps you and Karri can arrange a match. I would love to read the AAR.

P.S. I'm not sure I understand what the 2 additional house rules you mentioned in the earlier post mean. Did you mean that neither side can never ever under any circumstances disband a unit? Did you mean that the Finns are not bound by their historical governmental policies? [As far as I know, the Finns were not historically strong Axis Allies. Indeed, they did not like to think of themselves as truly allied with the Germans at all. They were always trying to hedge their bets just in case the other side won and so did the minimum they could get away with and not piss off the Germans and the minimum they could get away with and not piss off the Russians. That is my intrepretation of Finnish governmental policies in WW2 (caught between a rock and a hard place).] Anyway, if you do find skilled Soviet opponent, and if you guys can agree to the rules you will play by, then I'd like to read all about it.

_____________________________

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Post #: 22

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/12/2007 2:41:52 AM

DesertedFox

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Hi Vahauser,

Yes Karri has agreed to play me, so looking forward to the contest.

As for the Finns, yes they were really only wanting to get their own territory back, not invade Russia. The reasons Russia gave for taking that territory was to safe guard Leningrad, so they didn't want to give Russia an excuse for doing this again by invading Leningrad.

However, the Russians didn't know the Finnish war aims, and appropriately reinforced the area etc as the early war took place. Even when the Finns stopped advancing, the Russian didn't know why, and kept their troops in place. Now the game house rules allow Russia to virtually retreat behind the original borders, strip the area of troops and send them elsewhere (until turn 40), totally, totally, totally stupid and unrealistic. I over the many years of wargaming usually play the Russians, not Germans, and I hate these kind of rules.

I found these here with a game played by SMK, and I use them, they are very good. Come turn 40, the regular rules take over again and Finns cannot use ships until Leningrad is captured. German troops in Finland are not affected and can attack where ever.

1. you can make limited attacks anywhere.
2. Between Lake Lagoda and the Baltic/Gulf of Finland you can make
"real" attacks and/or advance into any hex not occupied by a division
equivalent.
3. North of Lake Lagoda you can only advance into an empty hex if it is
not ZOC'ed by a division-equivalent, or to advance to be adjacent to
that occupied hex (ie you can move up to Sov units, but not pass
between them if there's gaps that are covered by ZOC's)

(in reply to vahauser)

Post #: 23

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/13/2007 8:56:19 AM

vahauser

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From: Texas
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Deserted Fox and Karri,

Could you guys post the House Rules you are using when you start your AAR thread?

That way, when we read your AAR we'll have a frame of reference.

_____________________________

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Post #: 24

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/13/2007 7:47:53 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

Fite! Fite! Fite!

(in reply to DesertedFox)

Post #: 25

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/13/2007 9:28:52 PM

Karri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Hi Vahauser,

Yes Karri has agreed to play me, so looking forward to the contest.

As for the Finns, yes they were really only wanting to get their own territory back, not invade Russia. The reasons Russia gave for taking that territory was to safe guard Leningrad, so they didn't want to give Russia an excuse for doing this again by invading Leningrad.

However, the Russians didn't know the Finnish war aims, and appropriately reinforced the area etc as the early war took place. Even when the Finns stopped advancing, the Russian didn't know why, and kept their troops in place. Now the game house rules allow Russia to virtually retreat behind the original borders, strip the area of troops and send them elsewhere (until turn 40), totally, totally, totally stupid and unrealistic. I over the many years of wargaming usually play the Russians, not Germans, and I hate these kind of rules.

I found these here with a game played by SMK, and I use them, they are very good. Come turn 40, the regular rules take over again and Finns cannot use ships until Leningrad is captured. German troops in Finland are not affected and can attack where ever.

1. you can make limited attacks anywhere.
2. Between Lake Lagoda and the Baltic/Gulf of Finland you can make
"real" attacks and/or advance into any hex not occupied by a division
equivalent.
3. North of Lake Lagoda you can only advance into an empty hex if it is
not ZOC'ed by a division-equivalent, or to advance to be adjacent to
that occupied hex (ie you can move up to Sov units, but not pass
between them if there's gaps that are covered by ZOC's)

Actually, the Soviets did withdraw several divisions in the Karelian Isthmus once it became obvious finns were not going to attack any further. I think it was 6 divisions, but am not really sure.

(in reply to DesertedFox)

Post #: 26

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/14/2007 12:51:25 AM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

[/quote]

Actually, the Soviets did withdraw several divisions in the Karelian Isthmus once it became obvious finns were not going to attack any further. I think it was 6 divisions, but am not really sure.
[/quote]

The Soviets were in fact inferior to Germans and Finish and that part of the front was in fact only one where Soviets could afford to thin it out.
That was mainly to rugged terrain, supplies where really hard to get across so offensive action was limited in fact. Terrain favored defense. But no way that Soviets should take all units out till turn 40 that is one of those weird rules in FiTE.

But in FiTE fantasy stuff happens as many times Soviet player reinforce that front very much while Axis player is restricted by rules.

I would MAYBE change that.

FiTE! LOL

Mario

< Message edited by Monkeys Brain -- 11/14/2007 12:53:52 AM >

(in reply to Karri)

Post #: 27

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/14/2007 3:40:41 AM

SMK-at-work

Posts: 3396
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

IIRC the Soviets kept the 7th army in the area north of the Karellian isthmus/Lake Lagoda - it erceived a couple of "Siberian" divisions as reinforcement, but in FITE it'd be easy meat if the Finns decided to actually push hard against it.

I'm playing this game twice at the moment - once vs Buzz where we're up to T34 and the mud has set in, slowing everything down (German shock gets set to 75%, Soviet to 85%, so vast numbers of armies are "frozen" every turn!). So far the Soviets have lost Murmansk but are holding Stalino. The Germans are only 4-5 hexes from Leningrad, a couple from Kallinin and Tula, but a long way from Moscow.

In my 2nd game we're only at T10, having gone back about 15 turns because my opponent wasn't being very aggressive & the Sov's had a thick line along eth Dneipr that was goign to be a b*tch to get through....... so we went back to T6 & "started again" to give him a better shot.

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 28

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/14/2007 11:39:32 AM

Monkeys Brain

Posts: 605
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

IIRC the Soviets kept the 7th army in the area north of the Karellian isthmus/Lake Lagoda - it erceived a couple of "Siberian" divisions as reinforcement, but in FITE it'd be easy meat if the Finns decided to actually push hard against it.

I have read in some book what I have written. And I think that it is true. Contrary to many Soviets didn't have unexhasustable manpower pool as some think. They thinned out this front but guarded it very well up till June 1944. Of course in 1941. there were many more units but later in 1942. and later they were pretty much sure that line will not be broken.

Mario

(in reply to SMK-at-work)

Post #: 29

RE: House Rules for FitE 5.0 ?? - 11/14/2007 12:09:17 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

I think in a scenario like this Finland should be left out, for the reasons given so far and a few others. But if the theatre is included in a scenario, it shouldn't have restrictions. The design should be such that the situation would be similar to the historical situation. Finnish forces shouldn't be so strong that they can take Leningrad, German units should be busy up north protecting Petsamo, Sweden and Norway, and if the Soviet decides to push into Finland early, it will take away from every unit that is needed to defend everything else.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be completely wrong.

(in reply to Monkeys Brain)

Post #: 30

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