French Tricolor

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Napoleon in Italy >> French Tricolor

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French Tricolor - 11/11/2007 4:09:17 AM

Bookman

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: Richmond, KY
Status: offline

I do not consider myself a grognard by any stretch of the imagination, but in the next patch, could you please change the tricolor from red, white, blue to blue , white, red? I'm afraid somebody didn't do their homework.

Otherwise it's a great game, visually and graphically. As always, Matrix has done a great job.

Post #: 1

RE: French Tricolor - 11/11/2007 10:03:16 AM

Leopejo

Posts: 20
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bookman
I'm afraid somebody didn't do their homework.

Apparently you

There is a thread on this somewhere in this board, but apparently red-white-blue was the original pattern, in use at the time of this game. Since they are planning on doing later campaigns as well, they'll introduce the diamond pattern and the blue-white-red pattern according to the correct years.

(in reply to Bookman)

Post #: 2

RE: French Tricolor - 11/11/2007 10:24:52 AM

HussarGames

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

The actual flag used by the army during the campaign was red, white and blue. Unfortunately, there are no sources on this on the Internet. We are going to post references.
This is not a mistake, this is the historical flag.

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(in reply to Leopejo)

Post #: 3

RE: French Tricolor - 11/11/2007 5:55:57 PM

Bookman

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: Richmond, KY
Status: offline

Thank you HussarGames. I just learned something.

(in reply to HussarGames)

Post #: 4

RE: French Tricolor - 11/12/2007 10:19:53 AM

vanmi

Posts: 87
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline

No, in 1796, the french flag was Blue, white and red, since the 27 pluvi�se an II law (february 15th 1794).

source : http://www.assemblee-nat.com/histoire/SYMBOLES/sommaire.asp

It's just a detail, but for this campaign, the french flag was officially Blue White Red

(in reply to Bookman)

Post #: 5

RE: French Tricolor - 11/12/2007 6:40:43 PM

HussarGames

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

That is just the navy flag. Our historian should provide references soon - but it is only in French offline books.

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Post #: 6

RE: French Tricolor - 11/12/2007 11:58:24 PM

vanmi

Posts: 87
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline

Majority Navy, since 1790 adopt Red, White, Blue flag, but someelse continue to use White flag. So some navy do a revolt to change their white flag by a tricolor flag.
After this complaint, citizen Jean bon Saint-Andr� purpose the french blue white red flag. Few moment later, the february 15 1794, the law say : "le pavillon national sera form� des trois couleurs nationales, dispos�es en bandes verticalement, de mani�re que le bleu soit attach� � la gaule du pavillon, le blanc au milieu et le rouge flottant dans les airs". In english : the national flag will be with the 3 national color, with 3 vertical band, whith blue attach the mast, white on the middle, and red fly on the air.

Not only for the navy, but for all the republic.

In fact, the french flag were disparate and confused. For example, in Arcole Napoleon take a flag with white in middle and blue and red on the corner !

Sorry to insist, but i'm really sure of my source. The only time when the french flag were Red, white, blue, it's from 1790 to 1794, and only for navy. The other Red,W,Blue flag were not officialy, like Arcole flag.

(in reply to HussarGames)

Post #: 7

RE: French Tricolor - 11/13/2007 10:30:08 AM

Jabba

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

The facts are easy enough to check. The blue-white-red tricolour was adopted as the national flag in 1794, but other variations no doubt continued.

Out of interest, check out this picture of Augereau with a red-blue-white tricolour at Arcole:

http://www.napoleonicminiatureswargame.com/arcole1115.html

(in reply to vanmi)

Post #: 8

RE: French Tricolor - 11/16/2007 1:00:13 PM

HussarGames

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/18/2006
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According to our sources the army flag in this period was red white blue.

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Post #: 9

RE: French Tricolor - 11/16/2007 2:38:51 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

I suppose it speaks volumes for the game that the flag is being cited in error!

Good show. I haven't picked it up yet, but looking with growing interest.

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Alba gu' brath

(in reply to HussarGames)

Post #: 10

RE: French Tricolor - 11/16/2007 10:53:07 PM

hunyadi2

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/11/2007
Status: offline

The blue-white-red were combined for the first time when the king visited Paris on July 17, 1789, a few days after the taking of the Bastille. The colors symbolized the reconciliation (white � the royal color, red and blue � the colors of Paris).
The three colors in vertical stripes were first used in 1790 (as a canton on navy flags), but with the reverse of what they are today. The French National Convention adopted the present day form of the flag on February 4, 1794, as a naval flag. Meanwhile in the army various arrangements of the tricolor came into use. Napoleon standardized it first in 1804 (white diamond with alternate corner triangles of red and blue), and introduced the modern French flag only in 1812.
Since we plan to make a series of games on the Napoleonic wars, our concept was to indicate the various periods with the diverse look of the flag, too.
1. Revolutionary period � first official form of the tricolor (red-white-blue) 2. Napoleonic period (1804-1811) � the 1804 pattern (white diamond, red and blue corner triangles) 3. Late Napoleonic period � the 1812 pattern, the �modern French� flag (blue-white-red)

pete limpar
hussar games

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 11

RE: French Tricolor - 11/17/2007 12:07:28 AM

Jabba

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

For those interested, the issue is discussed in French Wikipedia:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapeau_de_la_France

This makes clear that the modern tricolour was only officially adopted as the national flag in 1812, having been adopted as the ensign (the naval flag) in 1794 (so Hussar Games are correct). Vanmi, "le pavillon national" is the ensign. The national flag would be "le drapeau national".

In fact the naval ensign also became the de facto national flag, and was flown from public buildings (it was flown above the Tuileries, Napeoleon's residence, from 1801). This explaims why so many sources refer to it as the national flag from 1794.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/sfvexillo/page6.html

However, as this source mentions, "every possible form" was used in the army. (The flag Napoleon carried at Arcole even had a fascist-style fasces on it).

The long and the short of it is that there is nothing wrong with using the backwards tricolour in this game, though in fact many variations were in use at this time (as hunyadi and others have pointed out).

(in reply to hunyadi2)

Post #: 12

RE: French Tricolor - 11/17/2007 9:49:28 AM

vanmi

Posts: 87
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline

I don't make a fixation. I really like Napoleon in Italy, it's the most important

I will make my bwr flag mod

I know more information now, in 1794, bwr, it's for "pavillon" not "drapeau", and for the other flag, There were no rules !

thanks Hunyadi and Jabba.

But for me the french flag war Blue, White and Red (Cocoricooooo !!)

(in reply to Jabba)

Post #: 13