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Casualties - 11/14/2007 3:47:19 AM   
kingwanabee

 

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A question before I decide whether or not to buy this.....

Does the game still dish out casualties in increments of 25? If so, is there a mod to change this? To me, it always ruined the feeling of the game to have tidy blocks of casualties. It feels more like a math problem than a battle re-creation.
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 4:32:02 AM   
BumInABox

 

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they still do the old 25 deal, but I think its cool this way. It also helps in the chance of a unit being dirupted or routed

(in reply to kingwanabee)
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 5:12:22 AM   
Ashantai

 

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It never mattered before whether a unit lost 25 or 125...they always had to take a test regardless.

(in reply to BumInABox)
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 10:03:29 AM   
acwbuff63

 

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HA,  How many of you remember the original BGG?  Each loss was taken in increments of 1.  1 equalled 100.

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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 10:30:04 AM   
Leopejo

 

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The designer notes or the FAQ in the manual put it well (someone could paste them here if they are in the Matrix manual as well).

Anyway: not only the overall commander, but even a battalion commander would not care/know the exact amount of casualties. The 25 casualties is not exactly 25, instead it's a number that could cause disruption/fatigue, which is all that matters.

Besides, taking into account the many units which fire/are fired upon in each fire phase and the many turns, the step between 0 and 25 averages out in the course of the game.

The HPS games have "exact" casualties. The only big difference is in skirmisher firing, and I get bored with the many 1-2 casualties of extended skirmisher combat.

I like the BG system because it can be seen both as boardgame (2D view) or as a tabletop miniature game (3D). A 25 casualties result is like removing one casting from the tabletop. The HPS system is more mathematical, but it was easier in the BG games to calculate combat odds and probabilities like in a boardgame.


(in reply to acwbuff63)
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 12:53:20 PM   
Ashantai

 

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It does make small units useless. EG the Rebs at Antietam have tiny units with almost no chance of doing damage, whereas they might do...something...in the HPS ones.

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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 4:23:27 PM   
kingwanabee

 

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Thanks for your responses.

What about my second question? Is there a mod that fixes the 25 man steps? Is it even possible within the game engine to change this?

(in reply to Ashantai)
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 5:32:19 PM   
XstnX

 

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yes i think is seen a mod for this its called the norris/frost mod, if i recall its in 10 increments,but i think there oobs changes that comes with it .its also at the acwgc site

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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 5:50:09 PM   
acwbuff63

 

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I believe the answer is NO.  Loses are calculated by the exe file.

(in reply to XstnX)
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RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 6:15:05 PM   
XstnX

 

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UNITS

Maximum size of units is 400 (infantry) and 200 (cavalry). Artillery is in full batteries.
Strength points are in 10-man increments.
STACKING

600 men with 5 unit maximum
SCORING

Infantry hits are worth 4 and Cavalry 8 points. Other scoring is as per Talonsoft.
COMMAND RADIUS

Same for both armies - 3 (brigade) and 6 (division)
FATIGUE RECOVERY

20% (Day) and 60% (Night)
MOVEMENT FACTORS

Infantry (14), Artillery (14), Cavalry (28), Wagons (12)
Movement factors allow for the potential that troops could move at a slightly increased pace in the proximity of the battle, as well as the fact that double-timing and rapid artillery maneuvers are not possible within the game system.
Line movement is as follows: Clear (3), Woods(5), Orchard(4), Marsh(5), Town(5)
There is no cost for rearward movement. The Talonsoft parameter is +1 for this maneuver.
The cost for a battery to limber/unlimber is 4.
AMMO STATUS

The potential for a change in status is 1/12 (Talonsoft is 1/24).
Supply is commensurately increased in terms of wagons. Commanders will need to pay greater attention to the supply status of units. Re-supplying small units is less a factor than in the Talonsoft version. Because of the increased number of supply wagons, clogged roads will play a factor in movement.
WEAPONS EFFECTIVENESS

Refer to .PDT file for actual values.
The most notable changes are to artillery and rifle fire. In the latter case the range has been reduced to 4 hexes.
HEXSIDE MODIFIERS

Stone walls
are -1, not -2, in this system.
OPTIONAL FIRE AND MELEE TABLES

These MUST be selected. This system does not utilize the Basic Tables and no modifications have been made. Refer to .PDT file for actual values. Please note that the Quality modifiers will have more impact than in the Talonsoft system because mass in terms of stacking has been reduced.
Melee Success Rate (base of 36)
-5, -4: 0
-3: 4
-2: 8
-1: 12
0: 18
+1: 22
+2: 26
+3: 30
+4: 36
BREASTWORKS

Breastworks will exert a greater influence in this system and are assumed to be more substantial in nature. The build percentage has been reduced from 18 to 12. In addition it is suggested that only infantry be allowed to build breastworks. This must be enforced by the players, however, as the game engine will not do so.

GAME SETTINGS

Mandatory:
Optional Fire Results - ON (No Basic Table)
Optional Melee Results – ON (No Basic Table)
Strongly Suggested:
Rout Limiting - OFF
NOTE:
Because of fixed ZOC and the fact that the Talonsoft model imposes
no penalty in melee for DEFENSIVE units in "D" or fatigued status, this rule falls
in the Strongly Suggested. Toggling it ON will have a definite effect upon play,
because melee will become the only method to break a line. This will result in
armies "pushing" each other back and forth without the sudden change in
fortune that characterized many Civil War battles. Multi-regiment routing was a
common occurrence.


Flank Morale Modifier - ON
Higher Fatigue Recovery - ON
Suggested:
Quality Fire Modifiers - ON
Victory Points for Leaders - ON
Quality Melee Modifiers - ON
Isolation - OFF
Extreme Fog-of-War - ON
Partial Retreats - ON
The use of ADF is player option.
As previously stated it is suggested that breastwork construction be limited to only infantry.
GENERAL TACTICS

This is not meant as a primer in tactics, rather as a brief discussion on how one’s may need to change from those employed in the Talonsoft model. In short, one may need to become more of a Civil War general, than a WWII counterpart. Each will develop his own methods.

Melee
in the Norris_Frost system is a tactical maneuver, not a weapon in and of itself. If one insists on meleeing every unit in sight simply because of odds, one’s offensive punch will quickly dissipate. Although the odds are actually greater than in the Talonsoft model, achieving said odds is more problematic. Additionally, using melee to score mass casualties is not an option.
Even an automatic victory (+4 or above) will net only 90, unless, of course, ZOC prevent retreat.
Save your units for melees of tactical importance. Meleeing with fatigued units is certainly to be
avoided.
Keep your brigades compact for purposes of Command and Control, but maintain spacing for purposes of maneuver. Avoid the temptation to spread your regiments(infantry, that is) all over the place. Movement in line is costlier in this system and, therefore once engaged, it is more difficult to complete other than a local maneuver. Conversely, it is a slower process for your opponent to come crashing in on your flank.
This system employs a stacking density less than that of the Talonsoft model. We feel this is more accurate for the scale involved. Stacking would be more appropriately based upon terrain, but the game engine does not make this discrimination. The standard frontage for 125 yards would be 400 men. An additional 50% concentration is allowed. Cavalry is 200 because of the fact they were generally more dispersed, if for no other reason than their horses. The number of cavalry units are much greater and allows one to use them in their historical roles: scouting and covering flanks.
We do not view the fact that two 300-man regiments can stack, whereas a 400-man and 300-man cannot, as a problem. This suggests a level of micromanagement which Civil War brigadiers did not possess. Both sides can chalk this up to "fog-of-war".
Your army, wing and corps commanders may assume additional importance within this system.
Routed
units will be more numerous and will require these commanders to rally them. Positioning them will be important.





(in reply to acwbuff63)
Post #: 10
RE: Casualties - 11/14/2007 8:40:24 PM   
Ashantai

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline
It can be done. You change the PDT file down to one man incriments, but then you have to rewrite and massively expand the fire and melee tables.

It can be done, it would just take lots and lots of work.

I've done it myself for 5 man units.

Of course, you have to rewrite the whole OOB file....

(in reply to XstnX)
Post #: 11
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