Position Player and Pitcher longivity

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Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/14/2007 11:33:13 PM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

Shaun,
In next years version could we have an endurence button and rating on the position players? I'm doing a what if league starting in 1920. 1942, Lou Gehrig is alive and well but, can't play because he is always worn out. His ratings are great and is forcasted to hit 26 hr, 90 rbi and .336. It will not happen, because I can't get him enough playing time. From what I see alot of players in the 30's and 40's came up late in life and played into their late 30's/ early 40's and played very well. Others just played well for a very long time. PureSim will not let these players and pitchers play into their late 30's or early 40's. They end up in the minors or in a utility role where one at bat or pitch and they are worn out. Any help here? Thanks,
Don

< Message edited by DonBraswell -- 11/14/2007 11:35:56 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/15/2007 12:19:41 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

You raise some interesting concerns, Don. If I were to import some of those infamous "fill-in" players of the WWII years (esp from 1943-45), I'd have a slew of middle-aged pitchers who could never finish a game.

In Gehrig's case, what is his potential rating in '42? Just having him still alive is a good thing, but he's past his prime, isn't he?

Another thing -- what does mean about the initial ratings of a guy like Satchel Page? Allegedly, he didn't even know exactly how old he was when he finally made it to the majors.

And finally, how do famous knuckleball pitchers like, say, Phil Niekro, fare in their later years?

PS We baby-boomer types are touchy about that "age thing", aren't we?

(in reply to DonBraswell)

Post #: 2

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/15/2007 4:01:47 AM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

KG, This started last season, 1941. At age 37 Lou was rated 95 con, 89 pwr, pot of 12 down arrow. But he was perdicted to 33 hr, 102 rbi and .324. 1942, Lou is 97 con, 86 pwr & 1 pot. Preseason prediction is 28 hr 90 rbi & .336. I have the same problem with others, Lefty Grove, Spud Chandler, Paul Warner, Lefty O'Doul, etc. I can't think of all of them, hitters and pitchers. Selkirk has been giving out since he was age 33.
Don

< Message edited by DonBraswell -- 11/15/2007 4:06:34 AM >

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 3

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/15/2007 6:02:06 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Don, remember when I brought up generational talent spurts? Something's gonna happen in a few years. (Around 1946-47.) With or without WWII, birth rates and other social factors will come into play.

I started in 1941, and I have just one player in the player pool with a POT of 100 --Dave Philley. For pitchers, the highest POT is 89 -- Early Wynn.

All I can suggest to you is this, Don -- we have no control over nature. We can only let it take its course.

It might sound trite, but it is true --- as we now know, the next generation of great players is just a few years away from becoming available.

IMHO, we shouldn't mess with the player database too much. We can arbitrarily edit their cards to suit our whims, and that should be enough.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 11/15/2007 6:05:50 AM >

(in reply to DonBraswell)

Post #: 4

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/15/2007 4:15:08 PM

Wrathchild

Posts: 817
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: Reading, PA
Status: offline

Where do you see these predictions?

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 5

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/15/2007 6:59:54 PM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

On PSPN's first report of the season. It also ranks the teams to finnish the year.
Don

(in reply to Wrathchild)

Post #: 6

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/17/2007 3:15:13 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DonBraswell

Shaun,
In next years version could we have an endurence button and rating on the position players? I'm doing a what if league starting in 1920. 1942, Lou Gehrig is alive and well but, can't play because he is always worn out. His ratings are great and is forcasted to hit 26 hr, 90 rbi and .336. It will not happen, because I can't get him enough playing time. From what I see alot of players in the 30's and 40's came up late in life and played into their late 30's/ early 40's and played very well. Others just played well for a very long time. PureSim will not let these players and pitchers play into their late 30's or early 40's. They end up in the minors or in a utility role where one at bat or pitch and they are worn out. Any help here? Thanks,
Don

Any other examples? Gehrig is a bad one because the PureSim aging engine considers the player's real life career when calculating endurance (without exactly mirroring it). In real life, Gehrig played 8 games in 1939, then retired and then, unfortunately, he passed away in 1941. By basing endurance on real life games played I get the most realistic playing time / career curve possible.

I'm open to suggestions, but I really like the way it is working right now.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to DonBraswell)

Post #: 7

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/17/2007 7:18:30 PM

StefanG

Posts: 22
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline

Barry Bonds is a great example of this problem. He wasn't able to play at all in my simulated season during for the year in which he hit 70+ home runs (in real-life). His ratings were awesome, but he stayed in a "worn-out" state the entire year. I think the engine itself is probably fairly accurate, because he's an anomoly (see today's headlines for reasons he was this good at such an old age); however, being able to override this rating (endurance?) would allow players that fall into this situation to be corrected by the commissioner.

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 8

RE: Position Player and Pitcher longivity - 11/18/2007 8:38:11 AM

DonBraswell

Posts: 384
Joined: 8/24/2005
From: Millbrook, Alabama
Status: offline

Shaun, I picked a few recent examples from my league. It's harder to go back through the retired players.

Ted Lyons
Was a ML starter from 1924-1942. in PS he was a starter from 1920-1930. 1930-1944 he is always worn out, low endurence. In the minors and Releiver in 35 to 9 ML games since 1930.

Lefty Grove
ML starter 1925-1941. In PS starter 1923-1934. Low endurence, Releiver or in minors since 1934.

Red Lucas
ML starter from 1924-1938. PS no starts, imported as a releiver, 41 endurence. Low potential never became a starter.

Schoolboy Rowe
ML starter 1933-1949. Imported as a releiver. never started until I saw ratings and edited him. Others include: (Warren Spahn, Johnny Sain, Preacher Roe, Charley Root, Denny Galehouse, Claude Passeau)

Gil Hodges
Imported as 5 con, 5 pwr and 29 pot. Never improves unless I edit him. Any ML player who imports with 5 ratings (100 scale) never improves (low rated pitchers also). Others include: ( Joe Collins, Al Rosen, Hank Thompson, Johnny Groth, Joe Nuxhall (9 stuf, 6 vel, 37 con, 51 pot), Ben Wade (6 stuf, 15 vel, 20 con, 32 pot), Harry Brecheen (9 stuf, 26 vel, 7 con, 9 pot)

Cookie Lavagetto
ML player 1934-1947. has been in the minors since 1941. Found him and signed him to the Dodgers in 1943. Plays very few games always worn out.

Johnny Niggeling
ML starter 1938-1946. Imported as 38 stuf, 15 vel, 26 con, 48 end, 1 pot. Found him in 1944 with the same ratings + or - 4 points. Minor leaguer only.

Lon Warneke
Ml starter 1932-1943 Only started in 1933. Imported as releiver end 53. Always worn out.

Dutch Leonard
ML starter 1933-1949. releiver in 1953. imported with pot of 15. Has stent half of his PS career in the minors until I edited him.

Carl Hubbel
Ml starter 1928-1943. In PS has been a releiver then in the minors since 1937, endurence 15.

Shaun, I hope these examples help. If these players are not valued by the AI then the AI is easily beaten by the human player. I'm sure I could go back and find more.

Don

PS: I forgot, I'm using the early entry option.

< Message edited by DonBraswell -- 11/18/2007 11:39:06 PM >

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 9