tech in ladder games

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tech in ladder games - 11/18/2007 2:14:19 AM

Xenomath

Posts: 49
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: offline

How about discussing some ladder game strategies? Let's start with tech.

An official ladder game starts with 35PP.
How do you spend those? And how much do you produce later on?
I usually create a 2nd and maybe a 3rd HQ. A 4th is not needed, I guess.

With some pp production early on 20-30 PPs for tech seem reasonable to me.
But how to spend those? Do you wait to see what you enemy builds to counter it? or do you tech right away?

Obviously there is no need for ship upgrades --> we need a naval pbem map :)

Here are some thoughts on the other upgrades:

Infantry
-rifle II (20PP) is a sound choice I guess. You need those riflemen anyway, so no matter what your enemy does, it will not be wasted. There are just 2 things to be aware of: the damage upgrade only helps vs tanks, vs infantry it's only the extra hp. Upgrading all your initial rifles costs several 100 supply points.
-mortar II (10PP) is another good choice, I think, as mortars are a versatile unit and the upgrade is cheap.
-bazooka II (20PP) I have not used or seen yet. It only helps if the enemy has many tanks, and having better tanks yourself or dive bombers are a better choice, unless your opponent has air superiority. So they are kind of situationally and I would not tech them right from the start, and 20PP is rather costly later on.
-Machine gun II(10PP) machine guns are great at defense, but not so great in offense. You won't win a game with machine guns alone, but as the upgrade is rather cheap, it's a nice add on if your enemy has many infantry (and who doesn't)
-scout II (20PP) this upgrade doubles the scouts stock so it can last for 4 turns behind enemy lines without losing readiness and the improved movement makes it the fastest land unit in every off road terrain. A must have upgrade if you want to use scouts behind enemy lines, as they need the extra supply for that. If you use them only for their recon value, don't bother with this upgrade. And I would only recommend it on the mountains and forest map.
staff II (60PP): assumed your staff is mostly at 30-40 XP and you have a most of your units in staff range, staff II means an extra ~15% attack value for every land unit. Not bad but you would have to pump about a full turn of production into PP to be able to buy it. With this cost, I doubt we will ever see it on one of the current ladder maps.

Vehicles
-Light tank II (20PP) another very solid upgrade as the Light tank is very versatile and it's reasonable to build them in great quantities. But make sure to cover them with flak or fighters. As ladder games are quite short, they will probably not get obsolete in race for bigger tanks.
-Medium tank (10PP) I have seen but not used them myself in a ladder game. Only really useful if your enemy builds light tanks, but on the river or plains map they probably will.
-The medium tank II (20PP) upgrade I haven't seen yet, but 30PP of tech is still reasonable, I guess.
-Heavy Tank (20PP medium tank 10PP) haven't seem them yet. 9 rounds are probably too short to decide that medium tanks don't do it any more. HT II (40PP) is too expensive for a ladder game I guess.
-Tank destroyer (20PP + medium tank 10PP)
Haven't seen those either. Very specialized and expansive, so I guess I won't see them that often.
-Half tracks (25PP). Haven't seen them yet. Nice unit, and I like it when I have them in a scenario, but with 25PP it will most probably stay your only tech in a ladder game. And are they that much better than trucks? Remember, in heavy forest no vehicle is even better than tracks...

Artillery
-Artillery II(20PP) I haven't encountered yet, but that will probably change. Maybe I will try it myself as extra firepower always helps.
-AT gun II (20PP): the AT is nice... against tanks... on defense... Ok, nice but specialized, so It will probably not be build in great quantities, so I hesitate to spend 20PP on a tech.
-Infantry gun(10PP) is a cheap upgrade, thats good: I have used it myself, but I still need to make up my mind about IGs.
Flak II(20PP) another specialized piece of equipment. Would only tech it if I know the enemy has many bombers. That would probably be after I spent the initial PPs, so I would have to produce new ones. Instead Of building 20PPs I could just build 10 extra flaks, so I will probably build those if I need extra AA...

Air
-Fighter II(20PP): Fighters support bombers, so I would tech those first. Extra range doesn't help much as the map is so small, the bombers they escort would need extra range to, and fighters II does not increase intercept range.
-Divebombers II(20PP) haven't seen, but might be worthwhile
-Levelbombers II (20PP) might be funny to use. In fact, I would probably not use them without this upgrade.
As structural damage is automatically repaired you want to do massive structural damage or none. Maybe I'll try it in one of my games.

Level III or IV upgrades
Would you use any of those upgrades in a ladder map?
Machine gun III, mortar III or IG III are the only affordable ones, I guess (10PP +20PP) and of those only the mortar is versatile enough to specialize in it, I guess.

Seems like many of the techs won't be used in a ladder map.
This is especially sad as some units not only get more attack or HP but gain nice features on stage III upgrades. Like the scouts anti supply, the light tanks extra movement, the increased flak range or the increased interception range for fighters.

Post #: 1

RE: tech in ladder games - 11/18/2007 2:28:29 AM

tweber

Posts: 1411
Joined: 6/27/2007
Status: offline

I think you absolutely should build an HQ in the north and the south to make sure your entire front is well covered with staff.

That leaves 25 pp. Given upgrades cost 20 or 10 pp, you really only get to choose 1 x 20 pp upgrade or 2 x 10 pp upgrades. The game is short and well balanced. Producing 10 or 20 additional pp is the same as purchasing 50 or 100 rifle. I do not think you can afford to do that. So, I think the real choice is between:

- Rifle 2
- Lt tank 2
- 2 out of MG 2, Mortar 2, Med tank

I rule out planes since you do not start with any. I also rule out artillery since it is too 1 dimensional (offensive only).

My personal preference is rifle 2 since you already start with 50 or 100 of them. The extra HP helps in both the offensive and the defensive.

I would only do a tank upgrade if playing the plains variant. I would be interested in hearing what the person on top of the ladder would pick. ;)

I do not think a moderately larger or longer ladder would lead to more upgrades. In general, I think upgrades really make the most sense when your force is supply constrained.

(in reply to Xenomath)

Post #: 2

RE: tech in ladder games - 11/18/2007 2:36:47 AM

Ande

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: G�teborg/Sweden
Status: offline

I buy two hqs inf2 and additional units an a bit later medtanks, it went well until I faced Vic who got inf2 and mortar2 the first turn( or second) and I got beaten badly. inf2 is especially good for the second player since he starts with 100 infantry

(in reply to tweber)

Post #: 3

RE: tech in ladder games - 11/18/2007 3:52:10 AM

Willburn

Posts: 74
Joined: 10/29/2006
Status: offline

I dont think the cost of teching generally is worth it for such a short game. If I where to buy a tech it would be either: A)Light tank II (20PP) or B) -Fighter II(20PP) depending on how the game was going along. Id rather have 3-4-5 hq's and more small unit numbers. I sometimes consider using it for IG II (10pp) also.

A upgrade makes the light tank very deadly and is enough to make it count for the few 9 turns you have. B upgrade is good if your opponent is doing dive bombers to mess with your tanks and you are expecting an air war. Notice both these upgrade would turn one theater of war compleatly if used. Tank would make land battles much more efficient, and fighter would make you dominate air battles.

(in reply to Ande)

Post #: 4

RE: tech in ladder games - 11/18/2007 11:19:40 AM

seille

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

Nice thread. You guy�s are not really carful with your initial PP�s

Like most players i buy 2 additional HQ�s first. THIS is the most important investment since you get
a asskick when you fight with only one HQ. Learned that lesson the hard way !
Then you have 25 PP left. If you really go for a 20PP upgrade you have only 5 PP�s left for new units.
And this will never be enough since you need at least 5 units in the north, south and center if you want to be successful
+ the initial guards for the victory locations. A small reserve is also not bad in case you lose a HQ or some units.
That�s why i would never invest more�than 10 PP in upgrades. If you play offensive mortar II seems to be a good pick here.
The right unit composition and strategy is much more important than any upgrades.
In my games vs. Xenomath i learned some new combinations which are extremely powerful and how important it is to hit the other
player hard enough in the first attack to avoid hard counterattacks.

(in reply to Willburn)

Post #: 5