the new opfire rules

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

the new opfire rules

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> the new opfire rules

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

the new opfire rules - 9/13/2000 4:27:00 PM

headhunter

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/8/2000
Status: offline

I gave v4 a go yesterday and so far, I like the new opfire "confirmation". But it can get a bit tedious at times. In most (generated) battles, there is typically a delay of 3-5 rounds before the enemy is close enough for accurate fire. The computer is moving its units alternatly by small steps. And you will most probably have multiple units with LOS. That can add up to some hundred keypresses and takes also a considerable amount of time. Simple solution (read: hopefully quite easy to implement): The possibility (button/shortcut ?) to turn off opfire (for the first few rounds) and to turn it back on later. More complex solutions could include setting rules like "don't fire on infantry", as was proposed multiple times on this board in the past. [This message has been edited by headhunter (edited September 14, 2000).]

_____________________________

Post #: 1

- 9/13/2000 8:44:00 PM

Charles22

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline

headhunter: Have an idea here. Though I've never timed my various rounds of battle, with the new op fire option (or on the earlier versions), there is a possibility for even faster play! I know sometimes I got sick and tired of goinhg through all that op fire continuously going off, be that my side or the opponent's, but with this, you can just hit the no key imeediately, thereby skipping the old version mandatory firing. From what I've seen, it would appear as though the op firing possibilities are only coming to those units with sufficient range, and not every blasted unit. In the old version, if you had one of your units with little or no range, and it was fired upon by an opponent beyond that range, it would automatically fire back if conditions were right, but whether it then responding then added to it's range I never figured out. Remember, the way we limited some of our own op fire before, was that we cut down on ranges, and maybe, at least in my case, resorted more to splitting up those units which would op fire, and those which would fire pretty much just on the player controlled phase. With the breakdown option on, also, we will find that we will necessarily cut down on firing, so that the game will possibly be quicker still. While we're on the subject of op fire, I wish someone could tell us whether the AI will fire op fire as before, or does it occasionally decide to not fire?

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 2

- 9/13/2000 8:45:00 PM

Bonzo

Posts: 676
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Peace River, AB, Canada
Status: offline

A (possibly) better solution is to set your firing range at the distance you want to start shooting. Opfire won't set in until they are within that range. Also, the short steps that you are seeing will (IIRC) go away until they are within range. This does leave the chance that you will be spotted and fired upon from outside the range you set, with no return Opfire. Bonzo

_____________________________

Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Webmaster 28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters Main http://www.nwbattalion.com E-mail

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 3

- 9/13/2000 9:23:00 PM

Charles22

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Not totally correct Bonzo. I haven't played it enough to know, but on the old version if a unit if fired upon beyond it's range, it would respond as many chances as it had op fire for, but only to units that fired on it directly. Again the same question comes to me. Suppose your tank has the range cut down to ten. The enemy spots it and fires at range twenty. Your tank meets all the conditions and then counterfires. Since your tank has just counterfired, does it the have it's range increased to accomplish this, so that any fire going on somewhere else, later, it is then able to counterfire there as well, which if the enemy hadn't targeted your unit, you wouldn't have wanted to counterfire in the first place? I imagine that in the above scenario that there is no longer any such thing as counterfire completely out of your control, but if your minimally ranged unit, when fired upon draws up the op fire prompt, it has just tricked you into possibly thinking that the op firing unit in question must not be one with reduced range, otherwise why would it be prompting me to counterfire? Perhaps the assumption that only units with that range will prompt for counterfire is a bit erroneous, though it can still be useful at times. Anyone know for sure?

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 4

- 9/13/2000 10:00:00 PM

Fuerte

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/14/2000
From: Helsinki Finland
Status: offline

I have noticed that often when I press space to do opportunity fire, my tank fires the other tank with just the machine gun, not the main gun, which usually has no effect. The font which tells what unit is firing and with what gun is quite small, and often I do not bother to read it. The system should just skip these cases when a machine gun can only be used.

_____________________________

PBEM Helper

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 5

- 9/13/2000 10:25:00 PM

Fuerte

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/14/2000
From: Helsinki Finland
Status: offline

I have a better idea. The system should not ask the op fire question, unless there is a fair chance, that it will do some damage. Perhaps it could even show the probability.

_____________________________

PBEM Helper

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 6

- 9/13/2000 10:46:00 PM

Charles22

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline

Fuerte: Possibly a good idea there, whcih I've heard mentioned before, but it wouldn't operate very well acroos the board, necessarily. Try fighting with some of the Russian stuff, and you'll prize the extra shots op fire gives them. their shots are often so low in accuracy, that if you made an minimum accuracy stipulation for the op fire message to come up in the first place, that they would almost have no op fire at all. Thus, when going against Gerry for example, the Ruskie might have like two to three shots during player fire, to five or six for the German. Add to that what you just said about minimum op fire percent, and the German has an additional two or three more shots, to none for the Russian because the percents would be far too low. German: possibly 8 or 9 shots per turn. Russian: possibly 3 shots max. The Russian may be a pathetic shooter for accuracy, but a Russian player learns to live with it, and make up for it in other ways. Eliminating low percentage op fire possibilities only makes the game more lopsided against those who manage inaccurate units.

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 7

- 9/14/2000 5:19:00 PM

headhunter

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/8/2000
Status: offline

Charles22, Bonzo: I'll try limiting the ranges. I had thought about it before, but somehow it slipped to the back of my mind. Unfortunately, at the moment I've not nearly the time avaiable for playing SPWAW as I would like to. Well, the weekend will take care of this, I hope

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 8

- 9/14/2000 6:01:00 PM

Grisha

Posts: 355
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Seattle
Status: offline

As a hardcore Soviet player I really value the new opfire routine. It allows for my units to hold fire until the Germans are within optimum range. Also, units can stay hidden longer, giving me more time to uncover enemy positions.

_____________________________

Best regards,
Greg Guerrero

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 9

- 9/14/2000 6:22:00 PM

Grisha

Posts: 355
Joined: 5/11/2000
From: Seattle
Status: offline

headhunter, If you must make absolutely sure that a unit will not fire you can make a unit's weapons inactive. Go into the Unit Status Screen, then click on the weapon/s you want to deactivate. If it's green then it's on, if it's red, it's off. Just click until you get the color you want.

_____________________________

Best regards,
Greg Guerrero

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 10

- 9/14/2000 10:51:00 PM

Rover

Posts: 79
Joined: 5/29/2000
Status: offline

Thinking about OP fire I think something like a popup with the ammo info (like the "C" button screen) so you'd know your situation ammo-wise and then have the targeting info including % chance of success available as well would be a great way to go... I really like this new feature, makes the game a lot more real time in a fun way!

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 11

- 9/14/2000 11:58:00 PM

Graf Speer

Posts: 99
Joined: 7/23/2000
Status: offline

Gosh guys, it seems to speer that having the means now to toggle 1) Ops Fire 2) Weapons Range limits 3) Enable / Disable individual weapons, we basically have what we need - especially given the limitations of Matrix time, money [!], original system, and our likely collective gratitude to the Matrix Troops for providing us with yet a better game . . . . I do appreciate grognard attempts to try and further 'economize' program design efficiency, but I am simply pleased to see this cool, completely optional, opp fire addition to the game. (My only 'other' wish is for a team like Matrix, with Matrix know-how and grognard commitment would one day take over the old TS Battleground� system and apply the same devoted, rabid attention, adding the so essential "opportunity fire" routine along with elimination of fixed ZOC's and the rest, so hard to fathom in a tactical sim.

But then that's precisely why I am here and NOT there . . . Opp Fire rocks! Thanks

Albert ------------------ The Good Nazi

_____________________________

The Good Nazi

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 12

- 9/20/2000 7:11:00 PM

headhunter

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/8/2000
Status: offline

I played a bit more and used the range to limit OP fire and yes, it works. It could be more comfortable, but for now it's an acceptable solution. Still I would like the possibility to turn OP fire on/off with a single keypress or a third option, when prompted to fire: "Don't fire and don't ask me for this unit again this round." Btw, is there a shortcut to turn on/off the hexgrid without going into preferences ? [This message has been edited by headhunter (edited September 20, 2000).]

_____________________________

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 13

- 9/25/2000 9:47:00 AM

Greg McCarty

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/15/2000
From: woodbury,mn,usa
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Graf Speer: [B]Gosh guys, it seems to speer that having the means now to toggle 1) Ops Fire 2) Weapons Range limits 3) Enable / Disable individual weapons, we basically have what we need - especially given the limitations of Matrix time, money [!], original system, and our likely collective gratitude to the Matrix Troops for providing us with yet a better game . . . . Albert I'm in agreement. There's too much stewing going on over petty detail. The new op-fire system has really introduced a nice dynamic from my point of view. I play a lot of campaigns. In defensive scenarios, I've come to the conclusion that I now can economize and maximize the benefits of op-fire with this system. Now, there is no more wasted far range shots out of my control. Fire can be focused where it is needed, or restrained as neccessary. Overall, I can already see improvement in my defense game. Sure the messages fly by. Slow them down. That's what the preference tools are for. If a myopic, doddering old poop like myself can read, comprehend, and decide within 5 seconds what to fire at --or not, then anyone can. Greg.

_____________________________

Greg.

It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees.

--Zapata

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 14

- 9/26/2000 11:02:00 AM

Graf Speer

Posts: 99
Joined: 7/23/2000
Status: offline

quote:

If a myopic, doddering old poop like myself can read, comprehend, and decide within 5 seconds what to fire at --or not, then anyone can.

lol . . . ditto here. Good post, Greg. I agree that the opfire routine adds another element of game interaction - I like it. Incidentally, I set my opfire to "3 seconds" with my itchy 'trigger finger' on the "N" key

Albert

_____________________________

The Good Nazi

(in reply to headhunter)

Post #: 15