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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition >> Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc.

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Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/22/2007 1:51:53 AM

Awac835

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline

Ive been practicing on the scenario in the GIUK pack, 11.0 Cutting the Noose, Nato have to attakc Keflavik with a carrier group.
After getting my ass handed to me by some planes who sneaked pass my air defence in the first go i got set up much better after actualy reading the documentation on the formation editor. I alost a Hawk Eye

But im not sure what i experienced is bugs or just me not getting it. I have understood refueling correct if i say you attach them to a group and then ALT-R and send them RTB and letting the remaing flight go on. Also how many tankers to refuel how many planes. Is it 1:1 for the small planes such as S3?

Another thing is i keep getting reports from my E2 hawk eye about ESM contacts. Nothing new there, but wouldnt it be possible to get a contact line that is tracing the contact when it updates? Also alot of TU badgers and some russian Mainstay airplanes cross my path. But they never show up on the group display. I see them alright on the unit display. I guess it might be becouse they are single units. BUT!!! its really annoying becouse they sneak past me, and when a long range CAP i have some 300nm's out ask me for permission to engange im like huh?? engange what? its also har to give vectors to flights if you want em to cover a area where you think there migt be some enemy activity when you cant look at passt reports.

Last questions is regarding strikes. I launched a flight of 4 F/A-18's and 4 A6 intruders armed with HARM's and laid waste to the airfields defences. But what is the better strategy, simply to have everything in one flight. SEAD, strike, escort or should one split them up. I guess its easy enough to set up good TOT for different flights with the excelent ingame range and bearing tool.

Last i just want to say great game. Im, happy that my experience with ANW didnt scare me away from this one. Maybe ill even return to ANW once they get around to updateing the user interface a little.

< Message edited by Awac835 -- 11/22/2007 2:08:28 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/22/2007 2:29:55 AM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline

Lots of questions there, Awac, but I'll have a crack at it and I'm sure others will chime in.

quote:

But im not sure what i experienced is bugs or just me not getting it. I have understood refueling correct if i say you attach them to a group and then ALT-R and send them RTB and letting the remaing flight go on. Also how many tankers to refuel how many planes. Is it 1:1 for the small planes such as S3?

Yes, you attach a tanker to the group you intend to refuel by using the Join Group command. Once their fuel level reaches a certain level, they will refuel automatically or you can force refuel by using ALT+R as you mentioned. (There is a small issue with the force refuel that sometimes appears, which we have since squashed and will appear in a future patch).

Tanking is a bit abstract in the sense that you can only perform the refueling operation once from a single tanker. That tanker can refuel a single plane or a large group, but it can only do so once. (We're still examining some ways to improve this situation).

quote:

Another thing is i keep getting reports from my E2 hawk eye about ESM contacts. Nothing new there, but wouldnt it be possible to get a contact line that is tracing the contact when it updates?

When you get an ESM contact, you will typically get that zone of uncertainty appear which more or less gives you an idea of where the contact is located. ESM contacts will usually 'firm up' over time. Jamming complicates things, of course.

quote:

Also alot of TU badgers and some russian Mainstay airplanes cross my path. But they never show up on the group display. I see them alright on the unit display. I guess it might be becouse they are single units. BUT!!! its really annoying becouse they sneak past me, and when a long range CAP i have some 300nm's out ask me for permission to engange im like huh?? engange what? its also har to give vectors to flights if you want em to cover a area where you think there migt be some enemy activity when you cant look at passt reports.

As detailed in another thread, these are likely enemy aircraft operating inside their own airfield's formation patrols. It takes some getting used to, I suppose, but if you keep this in mind, you can figure out to engage them by matching their unit identities to the airfields they are operating out of. Keep an eye on that Unit Window.

quote:

Last questions is regarding strikes. I launched a flight of 4 F/A-18's and 4 A6 intruders armed with HARM's and laid waste to the airfields defences. But what is the better strategy, simply to have everything in one flight. SEAD, strike, escort or should one split them up. I guess its easy enough to set up good TOT for different flights with the excelent ingame range and bearing tool.

This is a matter of tactics. Whether you send in one large strike package (with component SEAD/DEAD, electronic warfare, strike, escort elements) or individual groups arranged according to role, will depend on the circumstances and the nature of the target. I usually split them up so that my 'sweep and escort' fighters aren't burdened by strikers that typically want to fly low and stealthy, and likewise, my strikers aren't hampered by fast moving and high flying fighters that are sailing in with radars alive and looking for a fight.

It will get more complicated (and more challenging) as you move on into more recent scenarios that incorporate separate, layered and individually modeled air defences (SAM batteries, AAA positions, MANPADS, etc).

quote:

Last i just want to say great game. Im, happy that my experience with ANW didnt scare me away from this one. Maybe ill even return to ANW once they get around to updateing the user interface a little.

Glad you're enjoying it.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Awac835)

Post #: 2

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/22/2007 4:07:49 AM

TonyE

Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awac835

But im not sure what i experienced is bugs or just me not getting it. I have understood refueling correct if i say you attach them to a group and then ALT-R and send them RTB and letting the remaing flight go on. Also how many tankers to refuel how many planes. Is it 1:1 for the small planes such as S3?

Planes with a Tanker loadout can offload a quantity of fuel equal to the range of the tanker's loadout.

example:
KC-10 Extender Tanker loadout has a range of 7,500nm
Now you join that KC-10 to a group of B-1 bombers (we'll say 4 of them)
The KC-10 can give each B-1 1,875nm of fuel (7500/4).

As Brad mentioned, it is somewhat abstract but that's how it works. We're considering some changes to the refueling mechanics to allow a tanker to offload fuel multiple times and decouple tanker capacity from the tanker loadout range.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Awac835)

Post #: 3

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/22/2007 10:13:38 AM

Awac835

Posts: 279
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline

Ahh ok, very nice to know about the tankers. Thx

(in reply to TonyE)

Post #: 4

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/23/2007 6:35:26 PM

SteveF2006

Posts: 111
Joined: 11/5/2006
Status: offline

In regards to strikes, I think it best to separate the groups for two reasons. First, you will always travel at the slowest planes speed. The issue with this is that planes of a different type are not use to flying at the slower speeds and I have had difficulty knowing exactly how far they will travel before the run out of fuel and crash!

The next reason is tactical. I have found that it is best to have your fighters out front clearing the way for your attack group. You also do not want to limit your fast aircraft to subsonic speeds should you need to take evasive action in a dog fight or escape!

Steve

(in reply to Awac835)

Post #: 5

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 1:37:58 AM

SireChaos

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006

In regards to strikes, I think it best to separate the groups for two reasons. First, you will always travel at the slowest planes speed. The issue with this is that planes of a different type are not use to flying at the slower speeds and I have had difficulty knowing exactly how far they will travel before the run out of fuel and crash!

The next reason is tactical. I have found that it�is best to have your fighters out front clearing the way for your attack group. You also do not want to limit your fast aircraft to subsonic speeds should you need to take evasive action in a dog fight or escape!

Steve

That�s the good thing about multi-role aircraft such as the F/A-18. You can group a couple of Hornets with air-to-ground weapons and a couple more with air-to-air weapons together without any fuel and speed complications.

(in reply to SteveF2006)

Post #: 6

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 2:19:09 AM

SmittyG

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

Hi Tony,

In the re-fuel example with the KC-10 and B-1's... If there are 2 KC-10's attached to the group, does each B-1 get 3750 nm worth of fuel instead of the 1875 nm worth if there is only one ?

R/ Smitty

(in reply to SireChaos)

Post #: 7

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 2:55:48 AM

TonyE

Posts: 1551
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

Hmm, what you suggest makes sense and I hope it works that way but honestly I haven't tested lately to make sure it works as you say. Sounds like good scenario designing practice to me

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to SmittyG)

Post #: 8

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 5:01:31 AM

hmssirius

Posts: 31
Joined: 10/15/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for you inputs cv32.
They are helping me relearn the game and i am slowly seeing the subtle differences between ANW and HCE.surprisingly I am getting better game play out of both versions.
Cheers

(in reply to CV32)

Post #: 9

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 5:35:42 AM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fishhead

Thanks for you inputs cv32.
They are helping me relearn the game and i am slowly seeing the subtle differences between ANW and HCE.surprisingly I am getting better game play out of both versions.
Cheers

Good to hear. Happy hunting to you.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to hmssirius)

Post #: 10

RE: Few questions from a newbie? contacts, refuel etc. - 11/24/2007 6:42:47 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteveF2006

In regards to strikes, I think it best to separate the groups for two reasons. First, you will always travel at the slowest planes speed. The issue with this is that planes of a different type are not use to flying at the slower speeds and I have had difficulty knowing exactly how far they will travel before the run out of fuel and crash!

The next reason is tactical. I have found that it�is best to have your fighters out front clearing the way for your attack group. You also do not want to limit your fast aircraft to subsonic speeds should you need to take evasive action in a dog fight or escape!

Steve

That�s the good thing about multi-role aircraft such as the F/A-18. You can group a couple of Hornets with air-to-ground weapons and a couple more with air-to-air weapons together without any fuel and speed complications.

While that is true of multi-role A/C, there is another reason for using multiple small groups as opposed to a single large group. It is much easier to intercept that single large group, so multiple small groups actually stand a better chance of getting to the target with at least part of the strike package intact.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 11/24/2007 8:23:14 PM >

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to SireChaos)

Post #: 11

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