ColinWright
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ike99
quote:
'The point is if we start banning symbols we´ll have to ban all of them and end up with all white flags in war games.'
Well put Ike, polite avoidance of Nazi imagery is nowadays known as political correctness, which is the politically correct way of saying 'propaganda' and 'revisionist'. All governments were and are guilty of the tactic of manipulating history to their own purpose, the main objective being to keep their public ignorant of history and preventing the people from making collectively intelligent decisions based on fact. Hiding the SS runes and their meaning does far more damage than having people know what they stood for from 1933 to 1945, and in the periods before and after. If it hurts, it teaches.
Sorry Hopcroft, I'm not attacking you, I just hought you're comments required something.
Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.
The victors write the history books and make the rules up. 
Imagine if Japan had won world war what would have been said and the trials convened about the fire bombings and atomic bombings of Japan. 
Not all that different from what goes on now. There's a fair-sized school that adheres to such notions as (a) the Rape of Nanking didn't happen, (b) Japan was opposing White colonial aggression in Asia, and (c) the dropping of the atomic bombs was an indefensible war crime.
In a sense, they might as well have won. They come close to writing the history books that way. It'd be interesting to see the reaction if significant elements in Germany started started openly advocating similar ideas.quote:
Lemay said himself if we lose the war i´ll be convicted of war crimes.
The 509th bomber wings symbol would definately be ¨banned.¨
Well, on the other hand, there's the matter of intent and of degree. LeMay et al weren't just killing Japanese because this was seen as a good in itself -- as the Germans were when they were killing the Jews. They were killing Japanese because they thought this was the fastest -- and ultimately, the least bloody -- way to victory. Also, they didn't come even close to killing half of the world's supply of Japanese. More like 1%.quote:
But seriously though...I think historical wargames are recreations of historic events (the battles) so the correct symbols are prudent. In much the same way as reenactors of the Civil War or WW2 use the Confederate flag and Swastica. Or even with war movies, Saving Private Ryan for example, the use of these symbols is warranted simply because it´s part of the historical aspects of what´s being presented.
I think the reason for ¨banning¨ symbols, for example Nazi symbols, is because we don´t want people glorifying the Nazis or their ideology.
I think that´s the general idea with banning symbols.
However I think using these symbols in a historical context, historical wargames, historical movies , historical live reenactments, history books, museums, etc., do not do this.
So I don´t have a problem with any symbols in a historical context. As a matter of fact I want the correct symbols, no matter what they might or from what time period for the historical accuracy.
Yeah -- but here in America, there's no real danger that we're going to become a genocidal fascist dictatorship. In a lot of Europe, such a turn is perceived as a very real possibility -- if only because in one case it actually did happen -- and so the ideology has to be clearly labeled as wrong. You can't allow Nazi parades if there's a real chance a million people will turn up.
I suppose child porn would be a good analogy. Well, if everyone was just like me, and presumably, just like you, there'd be no need to legislate against it. No one would be interested in the first place. On the other hand, since some people do have leanings that way, the general consensus is that such impulses must be clearly labelled as wrong. Hence child porn laws. We don't want people in any way, shape, manner, or form thinking it's okay to have a go at the six year old next door. Want to be clear on that point.
The logic would seem to be similar for those nations that feel impelled to ban SS runes, etc. You can have the Hammer and Sickle -- no one is interested in a return to the good old days of mass famine and nation-wide slave labor camps. You can have satanic imagery -- we're not about to have a major outbreak of devil-worship. But in some countries, no you can't have Nazi symbols. The dogma of intolerance, aggressive nationalism, and homicidal xenophobia taps into urges that are very much alive.
So I'd certainly feel annoyed if they tried banning the Swastika here -- probably start scrawling it on walls all over the place in response. However, if other societies feel it to be necessary, I'd say that's their perogative.
< Message edited by ColinWright -- 11/22/2007 8:28:54 AM >
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I am not Charlie Hebdo
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