WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Larry Bond's Harpoon - Commander's Edition >> Tech Support >> WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues

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WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues - 11/23/2007 1:53:10 PM

mack2

Posts: 243
Joined: 6/29/2007
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I was playing the westpac training scenario, and found a few things I thought were a bit odd.

The TRAN Truck units had a top speed of 100 knots, which is equal to 185.2 kph. It's top speed should probably be around 20/25 knots.

Also, the 2 AA batteries, with 6 AA Guns for the ZU and 7 for the Vulcan, is rated at 100 damage points. Now, a single M1 Abrams MBT has 5 damage points.

This means that each of the 6 AA Guns (the Zu-23) have about 15 damage points each.

A more realistic figure would be about 35 or 40, maybe 45 or 50 allowing for extra points for being a "Battery" rather than a single unit.

The APC BMP-2 30mm burst is rated at 5 damage. That's a one shot kill on an Abrams. Should be 1 or 2 at most.

Ironically, the Abrams is rated at 4.

It should be 10. An APFSD shot will easily kill any current armoured target in existence.

The FF Warramunga's Mk 45 127mm gun, the 127mm/54 shells (35/35) did no damage at the airbase. The 127mm ICM (99/99) did do damage though. The /54 has a "Air" rating as well, is that the reason, that the ICM is a regular explosive round whilst the /54 is a "flak" shell?

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RE: WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues - 11/23/2007 2:32:05 PM

CV32

Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2
I was playing the westpac training scenario, and found a few things I thought were a bit odd. The TRAN Truck units had a top speed of 100 knots, which is equal to 185.2 kph. It's top speed should probably be around 20/25 knots.

I'll check on that one. Sounds like a simple typo.

quote:

Also, the 2 AA batteries, with 6 AA Guns for the ZU and 7 for the Vulcan, is rated at 100 damage points. Now, a single M1 Abrams MBT has 5 damage points. This means that each of the 6 AA Guns (the Zu-23) have about 15 damage points each. A more realistic figure would be about 35 or 40, maybe 45 or 50 allowing for extra points for being a "Battery" rather than a single unit.

These are pure database issues. Modeling damage points (DP) in a precise and realistic fashion is a challenge, believe me. There's a bit of abstraction involved, as you have touched on with your pointing out the difference between a 'battery' and a single unit.

In the end, the great thing about an editable database is that if you think the DP numbers should be different than what they are, you can change them.

quote:

The APC BMP-2 30mm burst is rated at 5 damage. That's a one shot kill on an Abrams. Should be 1 or 2 at most. Ironically, the Abrams is rated at 4. It should be 10.

I'll look at this one too, bearing in mind my above comments about modeling DP, and databases in general.

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Post #: 2

RE: WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues - 11/26/2007 4:48:45 PM

BurntFingers

Posts: 155
Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mack2

Also, the 2 AA batteries, with 6 AA Guns for the ZU and 7 for the Vulcan, is rated at 100 damage points. Now, a single M1 Abrams MBT has 5 damage points.

This means that each of the 6 AA Guns (the Zu-23) have about 15 damage points each.

A more realistic figure would be about 35 or 40, maybe 45 or 50 allowing for extra points for being a "Battery" rather than a single unit.

The APC BMP-2 30mm burst is rated at 5 damage. That's a one shot kill on an Abrams. Should be 1 or 2 at most.

Ironically, the Abrams is rated at 4.

It should be 10. An APFSD shot will easily kill any current armoured target in existence.

To give you a bit more idea why it's complex - you have to remember that damage points have to applied to ground units, aircraft and ships.

That 30mm cannon has to bring down helicopters (in theory) and also engage ground units. In practise of course, the BMP would be engaging an Abrams with it's AT missiles at range, not the 30mm cannon.

There are also issues where there's a group of units - if a bomb with a large damage factor is used, then it could in theory wipe out the whole group. Totally unrealistic.

I'm not saying anybody is wrong or right - but I suggest you play test and give examples rather than just go from the raw figures in the database.

< Message edited by BurntFingers -- 11/26/2007 4:52:04 PM >

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RE: WestPac - Tutorial - Unit Issues - 11/26/2007 9:42:15 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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Actually, surface damage points have no effect on Air targets, IIRC. The damage number assigned in the PE is strictly how the weapon behaves against surface targets.

Some of the confusion here could be attributed to the fact that some weapons are treated as a single shot, like the 127mm gun, while others are considered to be a burst of fire, like the AAA calibre weapons. The 127mm punches a nice 5" hole in the hull of a ship, while the 30mm might punch 2 dozen holes in the hull of the ship in 1 'burst'.

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