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RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/20/2007 8:41:39 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		TURN 25

D-DAY

The day starts quietly with the fleet just off the enemy coast.

I've been checking the Turn History regularly specifically to see if the subs pickup enemy fleet movement, or if on the off chance they see troop movement on land. There has been no movement reported.




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Post #: 31
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/20/2007 8:50:36 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		The fleet carrying some of the defensive divisions moves into position and the troops hit the beaches without any opposition.

I am going to drop the defensive troops first to make sure everything is safe.

There are enemy troops to the west which I wasn't expecting. I thought that these troops would be further south fighting his southern enemy.

There is also a small garrison in in the city to the east.

So far, only armored cars and infantry.




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Post #: 32
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/20/2007 9:09:23 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Once all the troops have been deployed, it becomes apparent that there are many more enemy troops surrounding our position than was initially anticipated.

This is where better reconnaissance would have been worth the delay.

As such, the plan may need some amendments. I am going to reduce my defensive perimeter until the port has been built. Of course, the enemy may have different ideas and bottle me in on the beaches.

I really don't want to fight my way out because my troops are going to be mauled. It is much more important with naval operations that you setup strong defenses and conserve your forces until you are ready to go on the attack.

Engineers have been dropped in the central and southern beaches to build the port and to build fortifications in the forests.




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Post #: 33
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/20/2007 9:25:18 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		A quick look at the supply situation (click on Supreme HQ then click on Supply icon) shows that only 25% of supplies are landing on the beaches. Just as well the Task Force HQ brought along the reserve supplies!




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Post #: 34
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 12:01:33 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		TURN 26

D+1

A lot has happened between turns which should now ensure the success of the naval operation. This is a little disappointing from the perspective of this 'how-to' because now the foot-hold won't require a landing port. I'll still describe what should be done to establish the beachhead. Actually, I miscalculated with the engineers I brought and would have had to wait an extra turn to build the port. I'll explain in detail...

(A) The southern enemy (Enemy C) has driven a spearhead northward and taken the other enemy's (Enemy B) capital (I'll call these players 'Enemy B' and 'Enemy C' as per the planning screens).

(B) This has split Enemy B's troops forcing supplies to enter the water. My wolf packs are waiting and create havoc.

(C) Enemy B has moved his strongest armored car division into the forest which keeps some of my troops on the beaches.

(D) Enemy B's eastern front is now cut off so these troops appear to have been withdrawn because they aren't receiving supplies. This leaves the small city open and can be taken this turn. The small city will then become the invasion port rather than building a makeshift port.




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Post #: 35
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 12:07:30 AM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Interesting read.. Any chance on another big picture shot? whats going on in the western continent?

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Post #: 36
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 12:23:39 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		SUPPLY

It is vitally important that supply be maintained as much as possible. I have checked the details of most of the divisions and they are all fully stocked, are operating at 100% readiness, and are getting the full headquarters bonus. They are also digging in have the added defensive bonus of the heavy forest

Below is the details for the Task Force HQ. It is worth going through what is happening on this screen because the ultimate success of the operation is reliant on how this HQ performs supporting the troops.

(A) As mentioned earlier, the HQ was setup with extra reserves of supplies before it embarked.

(B) These extra supplies meant that the troops were fully supplied for this important round of the invasion.

(C) But reserve stocks are dwindling.

(D) Supplies are getting across the beach-head, but not enough.

(E) The division is at 100% readiness so can put up a good defense.

(F) It has started to dig-in.

(G) It is giving full headquarter benefit (this was checked on the individual divisions.




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Post #: 37
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 4:10:56 AM   
Warspite3

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Looks like we have another fine gameplay example of all the awesome strategies you can use in this game  This is some excellent planning das123! Proper planning for an invasion operation like this can be very effective instead of just landing troops trying to quickly grab a city. If you really want a successful assault and plan it out as you have done, your chances of succeeding greatly increases especially if you are playing some AI+. Could be part of the reason alot of my overseas invasions have been failing, not planning them properly.

_____________________________

-Warspite3-

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Post #: 38
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 6:15:09 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Interesting read.. Any chance on another big picture shot? whats going on in the western continent?


(Love your work, btw, Vic )

Enemy D is at the gates of the last capital on the Western Island. It won't be long now before a navy hits the water. Might be time for me to start researching dive-bombers to protect the relatively short supply lines. These will also help dealing with the armor from Enemies B and C.

This screen also shows the spear-head from Enemy C. Of interest is that the spear-head should be cut-off by pincer movements from Enemy B. Hopefully this will keep them both occupied while I consolidate my position.

Oh, I should point out that the submarine fleets masking the Western Island have been pulled back for re-supply. They will hit the waves again soon.




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< Message edited by Das123 -- 11/21/2007 6:20:22 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 10:10:38 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		With Enemy B in trouble and his troops leaving the small city open, we are going to go back to the original (revised) plan and try and set our defensive perimeter up against the capital.

Stage 1 for this turn will be the capture of the small city.

Stage 2 will be to smooth out the bump caused by his armored car division and get our defensive divisions into position.




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Post #: 40
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 10:27:17 AM   
DasTactic

 

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Status: offline 		PORT - CITY

The small city is manned by two cargo ships. These are sunk by the submarines sitting outside the enemy port, leaving the city unprotected. The northern-most attack group can use all its movement and take the city.

I now have a port to bring in supplies and reinforcements.

BUILDING A PORT

I had planned on building a make-shift port initially. It is critically important to get supplies flowing quickly for your invasion forces. Each turn your forces are under-supplied they loose readiness. Not a good thing to have happen.

I mentioned above that I had made a mistake with my engineer division that was designated to build the interim port. I had transferred 45 engineers into this division. Each engineer unit generates 2 Engineering Point (EP's). A port costs 100 EP's. I needed 50 engineering units in this division to build the port on D+1. With 45 I would have had to wait another turn with stretched supplies.

So the steps required to build a port are:

1. Land an engineering division of at least 50 engineers onto the location you plan on building your port.
2. Next turn have the engineers build the port by selecting the engineer division, clicking the Build/Repair icon, then selecting 'Makeshift Port'. Make sure you have another couple of Political Points spare for this.




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Post #: 41
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 10:55:40 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		With the small city invested and a port for bringing supplies to the troops, it is time to smooth out the bump in my defensive line.

In the screen below I have swung my key defensive division to the outskirts of the capital which gives us a look at the pitiful remains of Enemy C's spear-head inside the city. I have also brought a division of engineers into the same location. Next turn they will construct fortifications.

The HQ has moved onto the small city and will be the conduit for all the supplies and reinforcements.

The artillery hasn't moved because I wanted them to have maximum action points to pound the enemy armored car division. As can be seen in the screen below, they have done an admirable job. Nearly all the supporting enemy infantry has been eliminated and the readiness of the enemy division has dropped from 100% to 15%. Their entrenchment has dropped from 13% to 0% and their morale has dropped from 50% to 41%. This means that they are not going to put up much of a fight if attacked.

The Storm Trooper divisions are brought south. Two will attack the remains of the enemy armored car division. These will then be in position to take the capital when everything is ready.

I should point out that I am not going to use any of my defensive divisions to attack this enemy bulge in the lines unless I absolutely have to. The philosophy is that the defensive divisions are critical to the security of the naval operation and need to slowly dig-in and entrench with as many men and as much equipment as possible. Attacks will lose entrenchment and also risk lives.

The expendable divisions are the storm trooper divisions. These divisions are there to surround the enemy and mop up after the artillery has done its job. I would much rather lose 10 men from an attacking division than 1 from an irreplaceable defensive division. The defensive divisions are just that important.




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< Message edited by Das123 -- 11/21/2007 10:57:33 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 11:10:20 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		The two storm trooper divisions (SMGs, mortars and bazookas) have destroyed the armored car division for the loss of five SMGs. One of the armored cars limped away. So far this is the sum total of our losses for the invasion.

With the bulge in the defensive line removed our defensive divisions can move into position. The two attacking storm trooper divisions still have action points and so are also moved down to help bolster the line until the defenders get a change to dig in.




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Post #: 43
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 11:21:10 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		All the engineering divisions have moved down onto the defensive line. Next turn they will build fortifications to help the entrenchment of the defensive divisions.

"Hang on", I hear you cry, "There are only three engineer divisions! You said you were going to bring four!"

Four engineering divisions WERE built but the last one didn't have enough readiness to reach the home port before the ships sailed. You can spot the loafers sunning themselves outside home port in post 34. The best laid plans of mice and men ... etc etc.




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Post #: 44
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 11:46:47 AM   
DasTactic

 

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Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		A quick check of the supply situation and everything is looking rosy.




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Post #: 45
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 12:00:47 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warspite3
...Proper planning for an invasion operation like this can be very effective instead of just landing troops trying to quickly grab a city. If you really want a successful assault and plan it out as you have done, your chances of succeeding greatly increases especially if you are playing some AI+...


I agree 100%, Warspite3. Unless your grand strategy is planned out beyond the initial target city you are spending a lot of valuable resources for no great gain.

Thanks for your comments, btw.

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Post #: 46
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 12:53:35 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		TURN 27

D+2

My forces were not attacked again this round. Great! "Keep those shovels shoveling, boys."

(A) Looking at the turn history, Enemy B and Enemy C have had largish infantry battles to the south west of the capital. Enemy B had the better of the fight but they are bleeding each other nicely.

(B) The history also shows reasonable sizes of Enemy B's divisions to the east. They are streaming south away from my beach-head. I guess Enemy B is consolidating to retake his capital.

(C) The way was clear for us to move another defensive unit next to the capital. I decided to take the opportunity now rather than fight for it later. The repercussions are that my whole eastern defensive flank will be required to shift downwards with the end division in the plains rather than in the forests. I'll need to build a fortress here as soon as possible. I am not overly concerned with this exposed flank because of the retreating enemy and ...

(D) ... the forest without roads will give me breathing time to react to any encirclement.

(E) Medium tanks put in an appearance. Time to start building dive bombers.

Other developments: The lost engineers have been goose-marched up the gang planks and have been strategically transferred to the front lines (one of the other benefits of getting the port early is the ability to strategically transfer existing units); Enemy D is meeting resistance on the island to the west but should prevail soon.

At this stage, I would call the landings a success. The toe-hold quickly became a foot-hold. Supplies are healthy and the troops are fresh, entrenched and ready for action (except the lost engineers of course - their readiness is still at 34%)




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Post #: 47
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 1:02:27 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		And here is the start of the defensive line with the new fortifications built by the engineers. This will make the job of the enemy much tougher to break through. The X's indicate where the next fortifications are planned to go.




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Post #: 48
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/21/2007 7:20:17 PM   
Viriathus


Posts: 17
Joined: 7/24/2005
From: Westhill, Scotland
Status: offline 		Das123,

Just wanted to say that thanks to this thread and Dave74's AAR 'A beginner's guide . . .' I have ordered a physical shipment. When I saw the game I was going to leave it as Napoleon in Italy and Empire in Arms interest me.

However this looks great fun, so I have taken the plunge.

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Post #: 49
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/22/2007 10:04:09 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viriathus

...I have ordered a physical shipment. When I saw the game I was going to leave it as Napoleon in Italy and Empire in Arms interest me.


I was thinking about Empire in Arms as well. I don't think you'll be disappointed with this game. I've had Peoples Tactics on my computer for a couple of years now. I didn't play it all the time, but it was a game I kept coming back to. Advanced Tactics is a whole other level again.

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Post #: 50
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/22/2007 10:21:32 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		TURN 28

D+3

(A) The last of the defensive divisions are now in place. They moved this turn and have an entrenchment level of 12%. The other divisions on the fortifications range from 168% down to 137%. They will continue digging in but already it would take a very formidable attack to dislodge them.

(B) The engineers moving from the fortifications build a web of roads behind them.

(C) Enemy B is attacking with a classic pincer movement to cut off the capital. It is already very difficult for Enemy C to hold on.

(D) Major battle field between Enemies B and C.

(E) Our artillery decides to give Enemy C a hand to see if Enemy C can hold on to the capital. The thinking behind this is that the capital is our next target and it should be easier to take from Enemy C than Enemy B.




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Post #: 51
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/22/2007 12:08:04 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		MATHS of PRODUCTION and DEFENSE

I thought I'd finish off the 'guide' (I'd call the operation of developing this beach-head a success) with a few thoughts on the maths of production and why I think defense is so important (especially with a naval operation).

Below is a map that shows how many thousand production points each city makes each turn. At this stage, the production score is as follows:
Me 21,000
Enemy B 17,500
Enemy C 30,500
Enemy D 29,500
Enemy E 10,000
Enemy F 5,000

So, right now, Enemy C and Enemy D are making 1.5 points to my 1. I am going to lose a war of attrition with those odds. If I can establish strong defenses then the chances of inflicting proportionally more casualties when attacked gives me the advantage, even though I am behind in production.

This is also why I like seeing the enemies wasting their production in their battles while I continue building up.

But I couldn't wait for-ever. Remember that I wanted to be in the game before Enemy D took the western island. At that point he would have controlled 44,500 production points. More than double mine. With those points he will gain tech advances and troops much faster than I could. Similarly, if either Enemy B or Enemy C had taken their southern island then they would control 48,000 production points and I would have been in big trouble.

It would be great to be able to see the relative production in the statistics screen but this only shows for all players once the game is over. It would also be helpful for planning to be able to toggle the city values on the Strategic Information Map. Maybe in future patches?

I'll continue posting what happens every few turns or so just to complete the AAR. For the next while I will be conducting ground attacks until I have full control of the southern island.

I hope this 'guide' helps others who are new to the game get a grip on naval operations.




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Post #: 52
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/22/2007 1:37:45 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		TURN 31

THE CAPITAL FALLS

The devastating combination of artillery and storm troopers allows our forces to surround the capital on three sides. Dive bombers are arriving from the home island and join in the attack on the capital.

After the city has been all but destroyed by the artillery and dive bombers, the storm troopers force the gates, easily pushing out the demoralized defenders.

One of the defensive divisions moves in followed by hordes of engineers. The city factories are quickly back into full production rapidly building troops for the next phase of the operation.

The next step will be to create an armored spearhead for fighting in the plains. Their target will be the large cities to the west. It's now time to research Medium Tanks. This armored force will be under the command of a new army headquarters. These will be constructed while the original task-force secures the capital and pushes the enemy back from the gates.




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Post #: 53
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 6:02:55 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I create 3 forces. One is the naval covering force, a series of fleets with destroyer flotillas, Submarine Flotillas and Cruiser TFs with destroyers attached. This recons the ocean and shore line and establishes naval interdction forces.

The second force is the initial beach invasion force. Designed to land 3 or 4 combat units and an engineer unit. With attached Battleship TFs to bombard and more Cruiser TF's in case of naval forces arriving. This will have each individual combat unit and the engineer unit in their own fleet.

The third force is the follow on and explotation force. It will be much larger with the Army forces to expand the beach head. It lands after the first port is up and running.It hits beaches and some land at the port.

I also have a further follow on force that will in some cases move by transport fleet and in some cases be strategically redeployed to the Port.

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Post #: 54
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 6:53:41 AM   
Warspite3

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Looks like enemy C is fighting a 3 front war. You at the north and purple hitting from the east and west. Good job and I still love this attack plan.

_____________________________

-Warspite3-

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Post #: 55
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 8:47:31 AM   
Hentzau


Posts: 161
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks very much for the AAR, it's not often that I can view one of these AARs on my dial up connection. Nice cropping of images keeping the file sizes loadable for me.

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Post #: 56
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 10:36:09 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

...The second force is the initial beach invasion force. Designed to land 3 or 4 combat units and an engineer unit. With attached Battleship TFs to bombard and more Cruiser TF's in case of naval forces arriving. This will have each individual combat unit and the engineer unit in their own fleet...



Is the purpose of the small amount of troops to establish a defensive perimeter? I'm interested why so few are dropped initially.

Also, I've never had much success with battleships as artillery. They don't seem to do much damage from the few times I've used them, and can't they only bombard the coastal strip, or do they have a greater range?
In this instance at 500% research, I would have had to wait too long for them anyway I think.

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Post #: 57
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 10:44:32 AM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warspite3

Looks like enemy C is fighting a 3 front war. You at the north and purple hitting from the east and west. Good job and I still love this attack plan.


From the last screen above, it looks as though Enemy C will take the last of the eastern cities soon. That should make the rest of Enemy B's troops to the east practically useless - except as a buffer zone which will allow me to attack Enemy B in the west before Enemy C reaches the capital in force (hopefully).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hentzau

Thanks very much for the AAR, it's not often that I can view one of these AARs on my dial up connection. Nice cropping of images keeping the file sizes loadable for me.


Thanks Hentzau. I'm trying to optimize the images without too much degradation. A few of them are over 100kb (which is fairly large) but most are around the 50 to 60kb.

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Post #: 58
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 1:53:10 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		A small initial force , in my case, because I play on LARGE maps, the enemy can and does have large production capabilities. I don't want to drop a LARGE force into a potential buzz saw and lose LOTS of Units. You can not easily supply nor reinforce the beach head without that port and I have learned it is nearly always a mistake ( I think you realize this too) to attempt a direct attack on landing against a city.

Also I have designed Marines, costly powerful seaborne subformations that lose readiness quickly if they try to move inland very much. Supported by LVT's if cut off and unable to hold they have a very limited ability to escape back to sea.

Even without them I would still follow this practice. Ever read about the Turkish straights Invasions in WW1? I would rather lose 5 units then 20 or more.

It takes time to build your fleets ( especially) and amass your troops. Time the AI will use to upgrade units and build or stockpile forces. Never assume the enemy will be unprepared or off fighting elsewhere. Lastly lately I have been doing allied AI, so there is no other enemy for them.

Your method works fine too. And in certain circumstances I would land HUGE forces all at once. Also you not I have taken the time to explain how this all works, so thanks, by the way.

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Post #: 59
RE: Newbie Guide to Naval Operations - 11/23/2007 2:23:49 PM   
DasTactic

 

Posts: 1083
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		@Twotribes,

From what you describe I can see how you can maximize the use of your transport resources and give yourself extra time while the invasion is underway. Also, it makes sense to limit your potential loses they way you described. It sounds like your games are set to a harder level than I have been playing so thanks for sharing your insights.

Would you mind describing the typical make-up of the Marine units you mentioned? Excuse my ignorance but what are LVT's?

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Post #: 60
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