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Round Two - 11/2/2007 5:09:21 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Ike and I have started a new game, with me being Japan this time, and IKE trying his hand as the Allies. It should be interesting!

The game has just started, not much to report except bad weather, missed air attacks on allies subs, and a small unit landing at Gili-Gili.
Post #: 1
RE: Round Two - 11/5/2007 5:01:02 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		  Sorry for such a slow start to this ARR ya'll, but IKE will not give me any targets. I have not had so much as a sighting report in his CV's, and only one ship sighted at PM, an AP that was sunk by a small bombardment force I sent in. I am anxious to see if he pushes troops into PM for a big battle to try to hold it, or pulls everything out.

< Message edited by borner -- 11/5/2007 5:16:16 AM >

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 2
RE: Round Two - 11/14/2007 5:59:18 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		It's 5-22-42. Ike is apparently happy staying out of my way for the most part. He has been running his subs close to my bases to lay minefields. I have a couple of ships that will get to make an early trip home, but that is about it. My ASW partols have been great at spotting his subs, poor at actually hitting much of anythig.

It's now time to wait for the KB to show up, and see what Ike decides to do at PM

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Post #: 3
RE: Round Two - 11/19/2007 4:16:39 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		So far me and borner have not come into conflict. I have not interfered with his first months objectives and he has not interfered in mine.

Some pin **** bombing runs by bombers, a sub shot here and there but no serious commitment of forces. The Allies start with a serious naval disparity compared to the Japanese. This will change by the end of June.

The Man and His Mission

edit-Wow, the censor edited out pr!ck.





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< Message edited by Ike99 -- 11/19/2007 4:19:11 PM >

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Post #: 4
RE: Round Two - 11/19/2007 6:22:18 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Dugout Doug without his famed corncob pipe.  Notice how his vanity shows through as he's posed just so....

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

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Post #: 5
RE: Round Two - 11/20/2007 5:15:18 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		To me, he was America's Montgomery -  Very over-rated. He won his battles due to having so much more firepower available than Japan in that area. He was very popular with the public though, and in 1942 keeping people inspired and confident may have been more important than actual battlefield skills. As things began to turn in late 42 and 43, it would have been a PR disaster to remove him.  

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Post #: 6
RE: Round Two - 11/22/2007 1:34:31 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		I also am not a big fan of MacArthur, though he was tenacious and charismatic.  Two key leadership traits. Competence would have helped, but as Meatloaf says, "Two out of three ain't bad."

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Post #: 7
RE: Round Two - 11/24/2007 2:27:39 AM   
Ike99


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quote:

I also am not a big fan of MacArthur, though he was tenacious and charismatic. Two key leadership traits. Competence would have helped, but as Meatloaf says, "Two out of three ain't bad."


Patton is probably much more over rated than MacArthur.

June 6th, 42. Brians ships get bombed north of PM. First successful airstrike by the Allies against the Japanese.








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Post #: 8
RE: Round Two - 11/24/2007 3:33:16 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
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From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Patton had the problem of a huge ego (Doug too), both feet in his mouth, but he carried out his missions regardless of the problems he faced.  The 2 examples that come to mind: 
Africa he inherited a beaten army with a lack of dicipline and morale and he whipped them into shape and they accomplished their mission.
The Battle of the Bulge his 3rd Army was ready with a plan when called on to help out and it swung around and attacked in a new direction and advanced despite the bad weather.  Again he accomplished the mission.
Patton was a fighter while Dougout Doug was a showman and administrator.  In a fight I´d want Patton every time.


_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 9
RE: Round Two - 11/24/2007 7:28:39 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		As an Army commander Patton was good, though I do not think the best, not even in France at the time. I do think Bradly made a much better army group commander than Patton would have as well.

back to the game..... IKE's fighter cover around PM has been more more effcetive than expected. I am waiting for more CV's to show up, and then we will see he considers the base worth fighting over. No major convoys have been spotted moving in and/or unloading, so it will be interesting to see what kind of garrison is waiting for me there

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Post #: 10
RE: Round Two - 11/24/2007 11:26:34 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

Patton had the problem of a huge ego (Doug too), both feet in his mouth, but he carried out his missions regardless of the problems he faced. The 2 examples that come to mind:
Africa he inherited a beaten army with a lack of dicipline and morale and he whipped them into shape and they accomplished their mission.
The Battle of the Bulge his 3rd Army was ready with a plan when called on to help out and it swung around and attacked in a new direction and advanced despite the bad weather. Again he accomplished the mission.
Patton was a fighter while Dougout Doug was a showman and administrator. In a fight I´d want Patton every time.


Pearl Handled pistoled, blood and guts Patton wasn´t a showman? Patton always had naval superiority, excellent supplies and supply lines, superior forces and at least air parity and more often than not total air superiority.

McArthur started with none of these things. In fact just the opposite. His march across the southern Pacific, with all the supply complexities and everything else it included rival anything Patton did in Europe and North Africa.

< Message edited by Ike99 -- 11/24/2007 11:27:53 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Round Two - 11/25/2007 2:43:42 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
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From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Ah, but Doug had numerical superiority and vast supplies to draw on whcih the Japanese didn´t.  We won´t even get into the inferior equiptment of the IJA or the mistakes Mac made in the Phillipines.  All of this is subjective as Patton was fighting a beaten enemy in Europ.  Each of them had his own merits and drawbacks and the only thing the 2 of them shared was their huge egos.  

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 12
RE: Round Two - 11/25/2007 6:06:10 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Bottom line to me is they are the two most famous US commanders of the war, but far form the best the US had.

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Post #: 13
RE: Round Two - 11/25/2007 1:02:46 PM   
tocaff


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Status: offline 		So I´ll pose the question as to who was the best general and best admiral, in your opinion, the US has had and why.  This one is not intended to start a war, I just am curious as to what people think.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 14
RE: Round Two - 11/25/2007 7:44:33 PM   
Ike99


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quote:

So I´ll pose the question as to who was the best general and best admiral, in your opinion, the US has had and why. This one is not intended to start a war, I just am curious as to what people think.


Ike Eisenhower & Chester Nimitz. Eisenhower had the brillance to put it all together in Europe on the western side of things. Field commanders many times get the glory but the theatre commander is the real genius behind everything and driving it. Nimitz for the same reasons.

As far as field commanders, any side, Heinz Guederian by far.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 15
RE: Round Two - 11/25/2007 10:08:15 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Now that is a good question.

Germany had a bunch. Manstein my vote for first from any nation, Guederian, and Kesselring close behind. Then Rommel. 
Russia - Zhukov.
Britian Cunningham and Alexander.
US. Hodges, Spruance

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Post #: 16
RE: Round Two - 11/26/2007 12:35:23 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		This question was not intended to hijack your AAR, sorry.  The question was about US commanders, not limited to WW2.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 17
RE: Round Two - 11/27/2007 8:37:59 PM   
Sequoia

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline 		I've always considered Winfield Scott's campaign to capture Mexico City the most brilliant ever conducted by an American commander.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 18
RE: Round Two - 11/28/2007 2:48:25 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		I wondered if anyone would mention the Mexican-American War of 1848.  Well led, under supplied and outnumbered troops versus poorly led troops.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Sequoia)
Post #: 19
RE: Round Two - 11/29/2007 5:03:58 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Ike's pesky and annoying sub-minelaying campaign continues. Hopefully my ASW patrols will start to get some hits before too long. A PC off shortland is the latest ship to find one. It's now helping to grow a nice coral reef in the area.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 20
RE: Round Two - 11/30/2007 5:53:59 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		Borners invasion fleet of Port Moresby approaches...but not without incident.
6-19-42




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< Message edited by Ike99 -- 11/30/2007 5:56:03 AM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Round Two - 11/30/2007 5:57:21 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		all the way to the doorstep of PM, and no AP's sunk from the invasion force. Sounds like a minor incident at best!

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 22
RE: Round Two - 12/1/2007 6:34:02 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		As Borner conducts his invasion of Port Moresby I am conducting my owm....Irau.





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Post #: 23
RE: Round Two - 12/1/2007 10:47:34 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		Yes, Ike took back Irau. That's good. He should throw himslef a party!

It's just more POW's for me in a few weeks. Also, he had about a dozen ships hit mines, and my planes put 10 torps into assorted targets. The next turn, my Nells flew unescorted not once, but twice, and got slaughtered! 18 shot down. Still, IKE took a lot of damage to take a base he cannot hold.

PM fell this turn, so the KB will now be available to move over, cut off this little force, and kill it. Thanks for the extra points IKE!


< Message edited by borner -- 12/1/2007 10:53:33 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Round Two - 12/1/2007 11:59:55 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		Fight for Irau...





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Post #: 25
RE: Round Two - 12/2/2007 12:00:43 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		Fight for Irau





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Post #: 26
RE: Round Two - 12/2/2007 12:01:42 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		Fight for Irau.....





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Post #: 27
RE: Round Two - 12/2/2007 12:03:30 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
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quote:

Still, IKE took a lot of damage to take a base he cannot hold.


My men have a message for Borner....





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Post #: 28
RE: Round Two - 12/2/2007 12:08:55 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		oh! you want the POW camp built on site? Sure, we can do that for you! Apparently IKE brought the bulk of the Americal Div forward in this operation. I will have to make a more serious effort to re-take the island, but it will be well worth it.


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Post #: 29
McArthur Returns - 12/2/2007 8:29:40 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline 		My plan at game start was for when Borner went for Port Moresby I would go for Irau and get a toe hold in the Solomons.

He went for PM a little sooner than I expected so my standing by invasion force wasn´t totally standing by.

My plan was when I saw him commit to PM, launch a massive carrier air strike to close Lunga airfield, then send in the transports covered by my carrier air to deal with his bombers coming down from Rabaul.

But as I wasn´t totally prepared yet before he attacked PM, the transports went in first. Then came the carrier strike on Lunga and LRCAP protecting the invasion fleet that shot up his bombers.

So the wagon got in front of the horse, but it had to be done as time was limited knowing PM was going to fall and his superior carrier force, then uncommited to protecting his own invasion fleet would rush over.

This caused extra transport shipping losses but nothing massive. Men and supplies got offloaded and the Allies are in the Solomons in force.

The rapid working Allied engineers have brought up the airfield to 1 and a fighter squadron now operates on Irau. However it must end there at ¨1¨ as the soldiers need to keep bringing up the fortification level as fast as possible.

The shovel can be as potent as the rifle now.

All this is well and good and McArthur makes the cover of ¨TIME¨ magazine once again.









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< Message edited by Ike99 -- 12/2/2007 8:30:59 AM >

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