Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Doggie was correct when he labeled the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages that needed to be pacified.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

An Internment Camp is a Concentration Camp. The term Concentration Camp was first used during the Boer Wars and was regularly used in place of the term Internment Camps. The term Concentration Camp started to have bad connotations when they were link to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.

What do you call a camp where you put civilians of your own nation, who have not committed a crime (then they would be sent to a prison), but are placed there because of their ethnicity, sexuality, religion or political affiliation? I call that a concentration camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put interned enemy soldiers? I call that an internment camp, what term do you think we should use?

What do you call a camp where you put refugees from other countries? I call that a refugee camp, what term do you think we should use?

In addition to the camp-types above, we also have extermination camps and force-labour camps, but they are irrelevant to our current discussion so Ive left those out.




So...knuckels...whats your answer?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dino

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Doggie was correct when he labeled the Japanese as bloodthirsty savages that needed to be pacified.

Are you daring me to call you a racist?
Do as you will but he's right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Will you accept Webster Merriam?

concentration camp
n.
A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

internment camp
–noun a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dino


Yeah, I know...Holocaust is "hindsight", too.

I guess we learned nothing from WW2.

-Jeff
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Will you accept Webster Merriam?

concentration camp
n.
A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions.
A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

internment camp
–noun a prison camp for the confinement of enemy aliens, prisoners of war, political prisoners, etc.

Since there apparently is no difference between the two according to Webster Merriam, no I wont.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

From Encyclopedia Britannica

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.
The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.

The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

LOL, you are just making this up as you go, arent you?

From Encyclopedia Britannica

Storsien is a small village in Kalix Municipality in northern Sweden. It is best known for the concentration camp located there where about 300-370 communists and pacifists were held during the winter of 1939-1940.
The village was founded in 1798 and grew to its maximum size at the end of the 1940s with about 80 inhabitants. Today it consists of thirteen farms with a total of about twenty-five people. Mail service, with one delivery per week, was started in early 1900. Telephones were installed in 1927, and electricity in 1941.

quote:

300-370 kommunister och pacifister internerades vintern 1939-1940

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08-Sep-2002 -- Set out from Boliden at 08:05 to visit 66Nx23E and 66Nx27E. Rain in Boliden, but clearing at Kalix, about 200 km northeast from Boliden. Drove to Korpikå, then to Lilla Lappträsk, then a small gravel road towards Stora Lappträsk.

After 2.5 km, I took off north on a small dirt track, drove 1.5 km and stopped in an old gravel pit. From there it was about 650 m to walk along a property boundary clearing to a bog. The confluence is located at the northernmost part of the bog, where it is covered with bush vegetation and small trees. Moose had been resting a few meters from the confluence. The vegetation type is taiga forest and bog, elevation is 59 m.

After the visit, I continued north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.

After Storsien I continued to 66Nx27E (in Finland). Moose hunting was going on along the road from Storsien to Korpikå.

Now 66 degrees north is complete within Sweden!

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ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Ok, what source besides your opinion will you accept?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
Ok, what source besides your opinion will you accept?

Well, I have told you what my understandings of the various types of camps are, can we use those definitions perhaps?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton

Its very weird that my college will accept Wiki as a source, but, alas, the esteemed PzJgr Hortland won't...

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ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton

Its very weird that my college will accept Wiki as a source, but, alas, the esteemed PzJgr Hortland won't...

Yes, considering that anyone can write pretty much whatever they want in a wikipedia entry, it is quite weird that your college accepts wiki as a source. What college is that? Clown college?

-Jeff
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed

... north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed

... north to Storsien, where a work camp was established in the beginning of World War II. The Soviet Union had attacked Finland in November, 1939. Sweden mobilised her army and the Swedish government was scared that pro-Soviet communists would distribute propaganda in the armed forces. At first the suspect propagandists were housed in bakery cottages and the like, later a barracks camp was built in the forest. The forced workers built a road (very slowly) in the area.

Ah, maybe we are getting to the heart of the confusion now. In Sweden there was a legal punishment called forced labour, meaning that a person could be sentenced to forced labour instead of prison. This is probably what happened, and that could be the source of the missunderstanding in the wiki-entry. These force labour-punishments usually went to areas far up north where the convicts were set to build roads or raillines etc.

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Art. 15. Any Party to the conflict may, either direct or through a neutral State or some humanitarian organization, propose to the adverse Party to establish, in the regions where fighting is taking place, neutralized zones intended to shelter from the effects of war the following persons, without
distinction:

(a) wounded and sick combatants or non-combatants;
(b) civilian persons who take no part in hostilities, and who, while they reside in the zones, perform no work of a military character

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.

Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?

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ORIGINAL: Skip_Reed
Now maybe these protections don't apply to civilian citizens convicted of real crimes (rather than just talking about how stupid the government is) in a court of law.

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ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.

Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?

What's the difference other than the connotation of the words?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dino

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

When you're in a total war, you don't worry about referring to the enemy in a polically correct way for fear of offending the fragile sensibilities of Europeans decades later. Even if it might result in a strongly worded letter from the UN for the use of racially charged words like "they" and "them".

Whether you want to admit it or not, those words ARE racially charged when used in a certain context...Like in describing the "stinking savages" that are now "downright reasonable" after being "gentled" by firebombing.

Used by itself, word "savages" is just another word...so is the word "stinking".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
No we can't because if we didn't use universally agreed upon definitions then words lose meanings. I can say killing 1000 people is a Holocaust using your line of reasoning and it would be considered true.

Well, there is a difference between an internment camp and a concentration camp, do you agree with that?

What's the difference other than the connotation of the words?

What do you call the place where you put interned enemy combatants that have entered your territory? In Sweden we had lots of allied airmen for example, who decided it was better to crash-land in Sweden, rather than to be captured in Germany. We put these airmen in camps, we called these camps "internment camps". What do you call them?

What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
So no "enemy combatant" (If they were airmen they were POWs not enemy combatants seeing they were in uniform) has ever been put in a Concentration Camp?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knuckles_85
So no "enemy combatant" (If they were airmen they were POWs not enemy combatants seeing they were in uniform) has ever been put in a Concentration Camp?

How the heck should I know? Just answer the question instead of shifting the goalposts.

Edit: And no, since Sweden was not at war, we did not take prisoners of war, we got enemy combatants that we had to intern. Or perhaps "foreign combatants" is a more valid term.

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ORIGINAL: Dino

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

Who are you to say what's fine re: someone's own conscience? Try to understand that in the latter case they may have been looked on as animals because of their behavior - not because of propaganda or racial prejudice.

A certain amount of hatred in wartime is inevitable...But, one CAN and SHOULD watch himself.

I think your father understood...

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...I find myself hating these damn Jerries more and more. If I don't watch myself, I'll be asking to go back up there again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?

quote:

Executive Order No. 9066

The President

Executive Order

Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas

Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);

Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.

I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.

I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.

This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The White House,

February 19, 1942.

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What do you call the place where you put interned enemy combatants that have entered your territory? In Sweden we had lots of allied airmen for example, who decided it was better to crash-land in Sweden,

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We put these airmen in camps, we called these camps "internment camps". What do you call them?

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What do you call the place where you put your own citizens because they are of a certain ethnicity and because you dont want them in society?