Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's Campaign)

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Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's Camp... - 11/28/2007 10:42:57 PM

Lionfish

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/16/2003
Status: offline

I have been looking at Advanced Tactics since it's release, read the reviews, etc.

I don't have tons of money or time to buy all the games I would like, so I need to pick. I had an old version of EastFront2 and WestFront - and really enjoyed them both. I like the scale and the linked campagins (which is not a deal breaker).

I was thinking of purchasing Tiller's Campaign series (RS, EF, WF) since I am familar with it and it has been updated. However, Advanced Tactics has caught my eye.

Questions.

1. What is the scale difference between the two?

2. What is the game play difference between the two?

3. Can they be played on a Tablet PC (in tablet mode)?

4. Are there any modern (or non-WWII) scenarios for Advanced Tactics?

5. If you had to choose one over the other, which would you choose and why?

I would like to make a purchase decision in the next week or two - so any comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Please note that I would be playing this on a R1E ASUS tablet pc - dua core, 2 gig ram, vista.

Post #: 1

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/28/2007 11:42:24 PM

PDiFolco

Posts: 1200
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

Well if you already have EF/WF buying the new versions will not bring you much new things... personnally I didn't buy it for that ! Otoh AT is quite innovative and refreshing, event if it looks somewhat crude (the other too but *they* are 10 yr old games !)

Some replies though as I play AT and played EF/WF:
1- Campaign series is really tactical (200 m hexes, platoon-sized units), where AT, though not having a set scale, is definitely operational with 5 km+ hexes (no LOS, only adjacent combat), with regiment to corps-sized units
2 - Quite different ... AT is closer to say TOAW, or strategic games like SC or CEaW, you don't exchange shots like in CS or other tac games. It's igougo, you have many strategic decisions to make : which units to build, how to organize your chain of command, supply distribution, in addition to battling the foe(s) ! Also, AT is 2 to 10 players (AI or pbem), not only 2 !
3 - Dunno, maybe not because of screen res issues - the games require 800*600 (CS) or 1024*768 (AT)
4 - Not yet, because noone still did a modern unit database ("masterfile") or scenario, but it's definitely possible for a modder/designer
5 - huh, already answered

(in reply to Lionfish)

Post #: 2

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/28/2007 11:54:38 PM

rickier65

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lionfish

I have been looking at Advanced Tactics since it's release, read the reviews, etc.

I don't have tons of money or time to buy all the games I would like, so I need to pick. I had an old version of EastFront2 and WestFront - and really enjoyed them both. I like the scale and the linked campagins (which is not a deal breaker).

I was thinking of purchasing Tiller's Campaign series (RS, EF, WF) since I am familar with it and it has been updated. However, Advanced Tactics has caught my eye.

Questions.

1. What is the scale difference between the two?

2. What is the game play difference between the two?

3. Can they be played on a Tablet PC (in tablet mode)?

4. Are there any modern (or non-WWII) scenarios for Advanced Tactics?

5. If you had to choose one over the other, which would you choose and why?

I would like to make a purchase decision in the next week or two - so any comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Please note that I would be playing this on a R1E ASUS tablet pc - dua core, 2 gig ram, vista.

If you have EFII and West Front already, I'd go with AT. I also owned EFII and West Front, but couldn't get them to run on XP. I bought JT's Campaign Series ealrier this year and it was nice to have them back again.

I was on the fence about AT, reading quite a lot about it here on borads. About a week and half ago, I decided to pick it up. And while I'm sure I'll get back to campaign series at some point, I'm really glad I bought into AT.

It's really quite fun. And the inlcuded editor is perhaps one of the best editors I've seen. It's a totally different feel from the campaign series. There is a nice and simple "beer and pretzels" feel to the play of the game. But as you look deeper into ALL of the features, you quickly seen there is quite a lot of depth.

Admitedly, Im still in the early "enthusiastic" phase, but for myself, I'm pretty happy with the investment.

The scale for Campaign series "feels" smaller, i.e. tactical and grand tactical. Campaign series works at the level of ranged fire with LOS considerations. If thats what you prefer, you might not be satisfied with with AT. AT seems to be more operational - strategic.

Camp. Series, has no production model, and supply is very simplified in camp series. Both of these items are maodeled quite extensively in AT, although options are there are ways to make them both irrelevant if you prefer.

I like them both, but right now, I'm spending the bulk of my time (read that as all of my gaming time) with AT.

Rick

(in reply to Lionfish)

Post #: 3

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 4:06:22 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

ok, unless u play a game on pbem for me there needs to be some solo challenge, I shelved the jtcs after a week, too dated and , well non interesting. I did like it years ago, but not now, seems a poor cousing to Toaw3.. If u want super detail grog heavy.

BUT

I find no equal out of the odd 150 computer wargames I have owned in the last five years... AT simply does a lot of simple things very well. HQ supply moral differing types of unit componnets in one shell each with various strengths and weaknesses against other sub units air war sea war etc.. and strategic and the ability to add strategic through hand cards.. see aar Europe in War...

All together a very solid bit of designing excellence. If you need to play solo, it can be done , but the real fun is in the ever expanding user scenario pool... free scenarios for all!

(in reply to rickier65)

Post #: 4

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 3:28:05 PM

Smirfy

Posts: 1057
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline

I bought both and aint touched JTC since I got AT. I was a fan of the original JTC but to tell the truth it deserved a complete re-working rather than just a re-release. JTC really shows it's age.

AT on the other hand despite being turn based,hex based,2d is the freshest thing released onto the wargaming market in ages.

As a strategy and wargamer I want a good solid game and AT delivers

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 11/29/2007 3:32:38 PM >

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 5

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 3:36:41 PM

Steely Glint

Posts: 580
Joined: 9/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smirfy

AT on the other hand despite being turn based,hex based,2d is the freshest thing released onto the wargaming market in ages.

As a strategy and wargamer I want a good solid game and AT delivers

I have to second that. This game delivers on so many different levels it's amazing. It's my own personal Game of the Year.

_____________________________

�It was a war of snap judgments and binary results�shoot or don�t, live or die.�

Wargamer since 1967. Matrix customer since 2003.

(in reply to Smirfy)

Post #: 6

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 4:46:44 PM

serg3d1

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline

5.
I have both too, but if I absolutely had to choose between them I'd take AT. You can also replace JTCS with free version of SPWAW or SPWW2/SPMBT for battalion level fix.

(in reply to Lionfish)

Post #: 7

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 5:41:57 PM

Lionfish

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/16/2003
Status: offline

Thanks for all the responses.

I have never played an operational type game, use to Steel Panthers / Campaign series. However, I have not played them in years and now run a tablet using Vista - tried installing my old Steel Panthers and Campaign series and they failed.

I am use to dealing with LOS and similar issues, which I am reading that AT is not at that level. More operational.
I will read more about AT and it looks great. I am just wondering if it is for me.

Campaign Series and Steel Panthers were great games, but I have not found anything recently that plays at that level (Squad).

I don't know if I want to rebuy Campaign series, while great - since I have done that.

Are there any new games that you would recommend that are in that scale / level?

I will continue to read more about AT - I may take the plunge.

(in reply to serg3d1)

Post #: 8

RE: Questions - choices of purchase (vs. John Tiller's ... - 11/29/2007 6:42:34 PM

rickier65

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lionfish

Thanks for all the responses.

I have never played an operational type game, use to Steel Panthers / Campaign series. However, I have not played them in years and now run a tablet using Vista - tried installing my old Steel Panthers and Campaign series and they failed.

I am use to dealing with LOS and similar issues, which I am reading that AT is not at that level. More operational.
I will read more about AT and it looks great. I am just wondering if it is for me.

Campaign Series and Steel Panthers were great games, but I have not found anything recently that plays at that level (Squad).

I don't know if I want to rebuy Campaign series, while great - since I have done that.

Are there any new games that you would recommend that are in that scale / level?

I will continue to read more about AT - I may take the plunge.

If you're looking for tactical squad level game, I'd recommend passing on AT. (I know I'll get jumped on in here). But AT is not at that level. I think its a great game, I haven't been this enthusiastic about a game in years, but it isn't (and shouldn't try) to be everything.

AT is a great operational and above game. But it simply isn't made for tactical squad level LOS type games.

I don't run Vista, so I'm not sure of compatibitilty, but you might give Operation Winter Storm a try, or, if you can wait a bit, I believe Panzer Command Karkov may be getting close to release. (I don't have either of these - played demo of WinterStorm). Another option would be John Tillers Squad Battles series (HPS).

But if you are at all interested in giving operational level and above a try, AT would be an excellent choice. And if you like the ability to create some random games, AT is great. Andf if you enjoy creating designing your own battles, again, AT really shines.

If you're at all tempted by the Operational/strategic level games, I'd go so far as to say AT is best value/price ratio out there.

Rick

(in reply to Lionfish)

Post #: 9