timothy_stone
Posts: 49
Joined: 5/22/2003
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Just spotted something (I'm just getting caught up on the matrix game after snoozing for 4 years while the game languished) that makes me wonder if that in CEiA lending units works *very* differently from EiA
I really hope Ralegh (or any other beta tester/matrix person) can tell us I'm misreading what ralegh says or it opens up so many difficulties.
quote:
P3. Why try to ally with other (computer controlled) countries? So you can ask them for money of course! You can also ask for access through their country, and lend units. (You can't request supply from the AI, which is a shame.)
[snip]
P4. Why lend a unit to an ally? So the unit can move in their turn: this is the only way to achieve that in EIANW. *********Note also that such a unit could be used against an enemy you are not at war with (example: while remaining neutral, Spain lends all her fleets to France, who uses them against the British*******[my emphasis])
(from ralegh's guide/tips http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1609122 )
Do you mean that your ships can be used to carry FR troops (and possibly be attacked by GB) as in the original EiA rules?
Or do you mean that corps/fleets on loan no longer act like their original nationality, but 'change nationality' and thus can **ATTACK UNITS YOU ARE NOT AT WAR WITH**??
If the second, this is a *huge* change for experienced players and would have *massive* affects.
For Example:
Often, a nation fighting against an alliance (e.g. France against Russia/GB/Austria/Prussia)will surrender to some, but remain at war against others - in the hopes of defeating the remaining powers to recoup the -8pps lost for surrendering (unconditionally).
For example, in the case above, France's army of 150 could be facing 400 allied (150 rus 150 au 50pr 50gb) factors. (just making up numbers for the example)
In normal EiA, france could surrender to all but Prussia,
and even at worst (taking heavy army losses in the peace picks) hope with his remnant of 80-100 factors
to then be able to smash the 50 prussians, and make them surrender unconditionally
This both helps FR recover from the pp loss of surrender *AND* (with the extended peace pick) lets FR avoid PR joining the alliance in 18 months if a fr/alliance war breaks out again.
BUT - this is how it would play out with the corps-loan
1) France surrenders to all but Prussia
2) every one loans their corps to Prussia.
3) now france's 100 men face prussia's 400 men... and FR's prospects are as bleak
this blows a hole in one of the primary tactics used by FR to have a chance against overwhelming alliances, and very seriously changes the game balance
More gimmicks that could be pulled with this if the rule works the 2nd way:
(1) as GB's ally, the russians land 100 factors in London.
next turn, Rus loans those 100 factors to France.
France now owns London...
(for those of you who don't know the game and would say 'well, Rus could just do the same by landing in London *then* declaring war the next turn -- the EiA rules specifically forbid declaring war on another power if you have forces in his nation)
(2) in a reverse tactic, say russia has been caught napping and Napoleon with all his corps is descending
on the undefended cream of the Russian army (just the Artillery, Guard and Cavalry, no infantry or militia to absorb losses) (or, if you dislike the hypothetical, the situation is often like this right after a battle with heavy losses - say rather that Russia has lost all his inf/mil and all that remains is the 'quality')
In a normal game, Russia will be faced with hundreds of dollars of losses, and the *only* way to save them is to either surrender, or to pin your hopes on rolling low enough to withdraw (again, for newbies losses of cavalry guard and artillery can take russia game-years to replace).
If the 'lending corps' in CEiA actually changes the national 'identity', all Russia has to do is 'lend' his quality corps to a nation at peace with FR and 'poof' - they disappear from danger. They can be safely marched to an area with sufficient militia/infantry, returned, and Russia is back in business.
3) Sp gets lazy, puts the entire fleet to sea. GB Declares war on SP. Rather than watching his fleet sink, SP loans his ships to Turkey (who is at peace with GB). Turkey moves them safely to port since he is at 'peace' with GB.
So.... !Please! tell me I'm wrong, and you just mean that the SP ships can be used to carry the FR corps (like in normal EiA) not that they 'become FR'
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