Slitherine

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Arlington National Cemetery and Yasukuni Jinja (The Shrine of the Peaceful Land) are symbols of the histories of the United States of America and Japan. Arlington National Cemetery and Yasukuni Jinja have a common purpose--to honor the war dead--but the two are very different. Arlington National Cemetery, which was created in controversy, is today is a place of peaceful repose. Yasukuni Jinja had very dignified origins, yet now is embroiled in disputes.

The “Yasukuni Problem” (Japanese remorse for its actions in World War II and the survival of militarism), continuing war-related litigation, and territorial conflicts with China and Korea whose roots also lie in earlier wars all remain issues in 2005. In the U.S., World War II, but not Arlington National Cemetery, was the subject of intense debate in 1995 and 2003 over the “Enola Gay” exhibit at the Smithsonian on the 50th anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the end of World War II. However, American debates hardly compare to the ferocity and protracted character of the war-related issues that continue to stalk Japan.

Arlington National Cemetery, in Washington, D.C., grew from the bitter circumstances of the American Civil War, 1861-1865. Some of the early fighting of the war was very close to Washington, D.C., and Arlington, an estate owned by Mary Anna Custis Lee, the wife of Confederate General Robert E. Lee, was near the battle sites. Union Army officials confiscated the estate and used the land as a hastily improvised military graveyard, in effect punishing Lee for his role in the Civil War. After the war, Custis Lee, Robert E. Lee’s son, successfully sued the federal government for the loss of the family estate. The federal government established Arlington National Cemetery in 1883.

Yasukuni Jinja, located on Kudan Hill in Tokyo, was created as a Shinto religious shrine in 1869 to honor soldiers who fought in a civil war to bring the Emperor Meiji to power in 1868. The formal title of “Yasukuni Jinja (The Shrine of the Peaceful Land) was bestowed in 1879 to proclaim that Japan was at peace because of the sacrifice of its war dead. Those enshrined are revered as deities, i.e. kami, “noble gods.” Honors were extended beyond military personnel to include civilians who worked for the military and women and children who died in certain war-related circumstances.

Established with elaborate imperial and Shinto ceremonies, Yasukuni Jinja became a major national institution as Japan fought in the first Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895), the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905), World War I , the Manchurian Incident (1931) and then the second Sino-Japanese War and World War II, known in Japan as the Greater East Asian War (1937-45). Yasukuni Jinja was revered as the site honoring Japan’s military who gave their lives in the service of the emperor. The names, rank and places of death of fallen veterans and others to be honored were preserved for veneration. Yasukuni Jinja today is controversial because of its close association with the monarchy, and particularly with the wars fought in the name of the emperor. Above all, the fact that fourteen Class A war criminals, and numerous Class B and C war criminals, have been enshrined as gods at Yasukuni Jinja is a source of anger to Chinese and Koreans. Chinese casualties in the Fifteen Year War (1931-45), are estimated to be ten to twenty million or more, while Korea experienced half a century of harsh Japanese colonial rule.

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ORIGINAL: morvwilson

Ike,

Cruelty on the battle field I think should be expected. After all, the idea is to kill the enemy.

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Contest to kill 100 people using a sword

The contest to kill 100 people using a sword was a series of newspaper stories about a "contest" between two Japanese Army officers during the Japanese invasion of China. The contest was supposedly over which of them would first kill 100 people with his sword.

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The major difference you seem to be avoiding here Ike, is how were prisoners treated after they were out of the combat area?

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Yep, the poor Japanese were such swell guys

Too bad any movie that portrayed them as they really were would be worse than the most graphic slasher film imaginable.

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ORIGINAL: TheBloodyBucket

This sort of moral relativism works best when the despotic force is safely vanquished by the repulsive acts of soldiers who are thrust in the worst kind of nightmare imaginable and are expected to behave like saintly robots in the comfortable hindsight of we who know better. 

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

So, I take it that NOBODY plays as the Japanese in any wargames? And, if you did, would you admit to it in this thread?

And, for those of you who actually watched "Letters", you couldn't find a single sympathetic Japanese character in the entire film? Not even Saigo?

What about Kuribayashi? Did he not adhere to the concepts of Bushido or "The Code of the Samurai", as they were originally intended?

It is easy to see how a code of behavior can be corrupted by evil regimes, as it has happened frequently in the past and still happens today. The corruption isn't limited by race or creed or nationality.

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ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

Aaaah, after another long night at work, I see this thread is still going, spinning endlessly in circles. Now, I'm going to be a bit presumptuous, and speak for everyone else for a moment...

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHHH! WHY WON'T IT DIE!?!?!?!

Ahem...there. All done. Continue with your pointless spinning, all.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

To Ike99: yeah, this stuff happened, and I'm not a denier. When I play SPWaW (and I usually play as the USMC), I get a peculiar pleasure out of destroying what was THEN considered to be the evil Japanese. I keep in mind what happened to the Goettge patrol on Guadalcanal, the Bataan Death March, Wake Island, Guam and Pearl Harbor. To a Marine of that time, it WAS personal.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
This thread is on the downward slope to the inevitable locking up.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
I'll leave you to your delusions. I'm outta here.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
See ya later.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin
Enjoy enshrouding yourself with hatred. I'm moving on.

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KG Erwin -Aaaah, after another long night at work, I see this thread is still going, spinning

endlessly in circles. Now, I'm going to be a bit presumptuous, and speak for everyone else for a

moment...

AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHHH! WHY WON'T IT DIE!?!?!?!

Ahem...there. All done. Continue with your pointless spinning, all.

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Sarge -PS: I thought you left

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ORIGINAL: Ike99

Did I say Japanese soldiers didn´t commit atrocities in the Pacific War against the Allies? No. Of course they did. Commonly no doubt. But I also see the Allies commited many, many atrocities in the Pacific War against the Japanese and it was also very common.

It was the nature of the Pacific War. The two sides really despised each other right down to the racial level.

So to all those who say ¨our boys¨ didn´t do that, ¨isolated case here and there¨ and other such revisionist dribble do not have the true historical picture of the Pacific War and the way it was fought.

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Ok, I will be the one to sound off that American GI’s did nothing even remotely in the same context as these animals.

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Your transparent deliberately attempts to take out of context who Japans victims where a insert the American GI’s is hardlly going to “get some ” to forget the reality of Japans barbaric military acts during WWII.

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ORIGINAL: Ike99

I´ve yet to see one picture or one story of Japanese troops sending heads of Marines home to their family members or decorating their military equiptment with such. Would you like to produce one?

Yes I saw both ¨Flags¨ and ¨Letters¨ Someone asked me that, can´t remember who but yeah I saw them.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

So, I take it that NOBODY plays as the Japanese in any wargames? And, if you did, would you admit to it in this thread?

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And, for those of you who actually watched "Letters", you couldn't find a single sympathetic Japanese character in the entire film? Not even Saigo?

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To Ike99: yeah, this stuff happened, and I'm not a denier. When I play SPWaW (and I usually play as the USMC), I get a peculiar pleasure out of destroying what was THEN considered to be the evil Japanese. I keep in mind what happened to the Goettge patrol on Guadalcanal, the Bataan Death March, Wake Island, Guam and Pearl Harbor. To a Marine of that time, it WAS personal.

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ORIGINAL: morvwilson

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ORIGINAL: Ike99

I´ve yet to see one picture or one story of Japanese troops sending heads of Marines home to their family members or decorating their military equiptment with such. Would you like to produce one?

Yes I saw both ¨Flags¨ and ¨Letters¨ Someone asked me that, can´t remember who but yeah I saw them.

In the first part of this quote you show why I think you need to read more. First off, Imperial Japan had a hard enough time keeping their troops supplied. Running personal packages for private soldiers was not possible for them.

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ORIGINAL: Ike99

But I also see the Allies commited many, many atrocities in the Pacific War against the Japanese and it was also very common.

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It was the nature of the Pacific War. The two sides really despised each other right down to the racial level.

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AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHHH! WHY WON'T IT DIE!?!?!?!

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ORIGINAL: TheBloodyBucket

Wow, I'm enlightened now.  Because individuals in mortal combat commit acts of cruelty and the images are ugly, the actions, goals and conduct of all governments are all equal.  GIs and Tommies in Europe shot surrending Germans and laughed, so we are all as bad as the Nazis.  Marines used body parts as trophies, so democracy is the same as any old military dictatorship. 

This sort of moral relativism works best when the despotic force is safely vanquished by the repulsive acts of soldiers who are thrust in the worst kind of nightmare imaginable and are expected to behave like saintly robots in the comfortable hindsight of we who know better. 

Yeah, every form of government is the same.  Thanks a lot for clearing that up.   

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ORANGE-I would like to see the proof of these alleged widespread atrocities of Allied Troops in the Pacific theatre.

Where were these widespread killings of POWS? And what do you mean by widespread? Do you mean that one POW was killed in the Aleutians and one killed in Borneo so that they were widespread spatially? Or did one occur in 1941 and another in 1945 so they were widespread chronologically?

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ORIGINAL: Ike99


I´m thinking this story didn´t make it into LIFE magazine along with those demonizing the Japanese and skull pictures....

On the 22nd of August the camp commander held a speech in the Indonesian language which I could understand. He told us that the Emperor of Japan had the pleasure in telling us that he had decided to end the war.

However after a couple of weeks the Muslim Militia was infiltrating the area. They were forcing the Indonesian population to stop helping us. In those days these Militia were called extremists or permoeda’s, nationalists, T.K.R. Indo’s etc.

The Japanese under the command of Major KIDO fought shoulder to shoulder with the British against the Indonesian uprising. The seven camps in and around Ambarawa were attacked by thousands of Idonesian rebels which prevented any food transport. This is all described in Wing Commander T.S. TULL’S report.

After sixty years I still remember all the good people who were so friendly to us. The local Indonesian population, the british soldiers and ghurka's, the british sailers and last last but not least the german POW's. Even the Japenese commander had a weak moment when he gave me a biscuit.

These were my experiences of the Pacific War.


J.E.H. Rijkee prisoner of the Japanese 4 years.

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The lightest but most frightening job was sweeping the Japanese quarters near the gate. Not only were the Dutch inmates punished there but also Indonesians from outside the camp.

One day while I was sweeping, two Japanese were beating an Indonesian gentleman with bamboo sticks. When the blood was pouring out of his mouth one Japanese got an old food tin to collect the blood. They then forced the man to drink his own blood.

Another time when I was sweeping the Japanese Commander’s bedroom, he came rushing in and ushered me outside pointing to a high flying British or U.S. war plane. He then forced me to hide under his bed. I suppose he wanted to convince me that the plane was the real enemy.
When I finished cleaning his bedroom he gave me a biscuit.

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Nice cherry picking there Ike.

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ORIGINAL: Ike99

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Ok, I will be the one to sound off that American GI’s did nothing even remotely in the same context as these animals.

These animals? Pretty much sums up your attitude yes Sarge?