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What should I do if I wanna work in the computer gaming industry?

 
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What should I do if I wanna work in the computer gaming... - 6/28/2001 2:50:00 PM   
Totenkopf

 

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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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This may seem a little off topic, but I plan to make PC games for my future career, specifically in programming and design. What does it take to be successful? I'm already going for a major in computer science but the thing that worries me is that I live in Canada and there's not a lot of game companies here so I might have to move to the US. Any pointers or advice greatly appreciated.

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- 6/28/2001 6:22:00 PM   
Mike Wood


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From: Oakland, California
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Hello... Computer game programming is a rather interesting job. You sit in a small room all day and night, thinking hard thoughts and typing arcane symbols and long, complex equations into a computer for many months before the product is released and others on the development team receive the accolades and magazine interviews. A computer science degree might be useful. My degree is in psychology. I would recommend time on task. Write as many computer programs, of all types, as you can. Learn all you can about low level graphics, sound routines, internet programming and artificial intelligence programming. Learn 3D algorithms and computer gaming physics. Much of this (especially computer war game AI) is not taught in college, because the teachers do not know how to do it. You will need to figure it out yourself, through trial and error.
quote:

Originally posted by Totenkopf: This may seem a little off topic, but I plan to make PC games for my future career, specifically in programming and design. What does it take to be successful? I'm already going for a major in computer science but the thing that worries me is that I live in Canada and there's not a lot of game companies here so I might have to move to the US. Any pointers or advice greatly appreciated.
You must be willing to live "Hand to mouth" for the rest of your life and dedicate yourself to coding. No dating, no picnics in the park in summer, no trips to the beach, nothing but coding. I know a half dozen of the successful war game programmers and they usually work 12 to 16 hours a day, seven days a week. More, as they approach project completion. I have worked many 36 to 48 hour days on Steel Panthers: World at War. You must be a self a starter who can work with no supervision and you must be driven to the point of making Batman look like a slacker. You must program because you cannot live without doing so. You must program for the shear love of it. When I decided I was going to make a living by designing and programming computer games, I taught myself Basic, Prolog, SYS, SPS, Pascal, C/C++, assembler, Fortran, Easycoder, RPG, BAL, Cobol and Snobol. I wrote hundreds of thousands of lines of code. I wrote a point of view step engine and with it, a role-playing game. I then wrote a flight engine and with it, a space flight simulator. I then wrote a grand scale galactic conquest guns and butter game using neural net artificial intelligence. I then wrote two tactical level war games. This took me six years, as I had to figure out how each of these worked and write hundreds of routines for each. I then went looking for work. None to be found. I had never had a game published, so I was an unknown quantity and an internship in clinical psychology does not get you a job as a programmer, at Microsoft. I did make a deal with QQP to publish "Fleets of Honor", but they went out of business before it was finished. I continued to write programs. Two years later, I stumbled across Novastar. This was a small, startup company, with no programmer. I convinced the owner that paying me would pay him in the long run and game him a list of projects which he could sell. I started writing programs for Novastar. We also made arrangements with SSI and Atomic Games for projects that fell through. As frequently happens in the computer gaming niche market, the fans we had were dedicated, but there were not enough of them to keep the company in business. After Novastar went under, I found that the projects I had done with them were known to war gaming companies. I had several offers from established companies, who offered salaries ten to twenty times the penance I had received at Novastar. I talked with many of the heads of these companies and became friends with some of them. I ended up talking with the fellow who ran The Gamers Net, a web site dedicated to war gaming, who had been considering publishing war games in some form. Rather to be a big fish in a small pond, always optimistic and liking the idea of getting in on the ground floor, I negotiated an arrangement with David Heath, absolutely the best business man I have ever met. After TGN was purchased by and run out of business by iENT, we decided to form Matrix Games. My advice is, first of all, be a genius. Every successful computer war game programmer I know, is. If you are not, try eating as lot of fish (brain food). Keep writing computer programs and make friends with as many people in the field, as possible. Be willing to work for free or next to and work harder than anyone else on earth. It is a hard job and there are only a dozen or so people on the planet who have what is required to do the job. You might be one of them. Hope this helps... Michael Wood Lead Programmer, Matrix Games

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- 6/28/2001 6:59:00 PM   
varis

 

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Indeed, from what I hear computer games development is not an easy job. It's a business that is fiercely competitive and attracting masses of gamers to your product does not happen just like that. Maybe 10% of all projects (or was it published games... which is considerably less) breaks even or makes a profit. You could consider a job in some other field of programming, so you'd have some free time to actually play the games and the money to buy them... That's what I do ;) In any case, you should try out open source game projects. That way you can get at least some references on the field and experience on team work. It's also a nice playground to apply the stuff you learn from computer science studies, and you get to participate in a real game project... Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/ and join your favourite project... but keep your eyes open, and select one that is actually getting somewhere :)

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Post #: 3
- 6/28/2001 8:17:00 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
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From: Oakland, California
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Hello... I agree. Before I decided to write games, I worked as a mainframe programmer. Went to work, drank coffee and socialized for eight hours, picked up a big check and went home. If any one asked how the progamming was going, just told them I was going to have to start over, because our IBM 360/40 didn't have enough "giga-quads" to do the job. Note, that only a programmer would know that "gigi-quad" means nothing, so I got away with it. Although our data-processing manager ended up trying very hard to get IBM to lease us more of them, to no avail.
quote:

Originally posted by Varis: Indeed, from what I hear computer games development is not an easy job. It's a business that is fiercely competitive and attracting masses of gamers to your product does not happen just like that. Maybe 10% of all projects (or was it published games... which is considerably less) breaks even or makes a profit. You could consider a job in some other field of programming, so you'd have some free time to actually play the games and the money to buy them... That's what I do ;) In any case, you should try out open source game projects. That way you can get at least some references on the field and experience on team work. It's also a nice playground to apply the stuff you learn from computer science studies, and you get to participate in a real game project... Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/ and join your favourite project... but keep your eyes open, and select one that is actually getting somewhere :)
I also did data-base programming for the PC at Intelligent Software Solutions. Made rather good money there, while working out of my home. The coding scedule was not so grueling. But, it was very not very challenging. Very boreing. Neither of these two jobs qualified me as a game programmer, in the eyes of the industry. I have never been involved in any open-source programming, at all. Too jealous of my code. Bye... Michael Wood [ June 28, 2001: Message edited by: Mike Wood ]

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- 6/29/2001 11:39:00 AM   
Totenkopf

 

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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Hi Mike, your response kind of scared me. While I enjoy programming, I may not like doing it 24/7 without doing something else, like walking my dog. Is the workload really that bad or is it dependent on how many people are working on a project? One last thing, since computer technology evolves very fast, how hard is it to keep up with the updates?

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Post #: 5
- 6/29/2001 7:41:00 PM   
varis

 

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From: Helsinki, Finland
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I guess there are differences between game projects and companies. I don't know if project size makes a difference in workload. In a small project you will be responsible for more stuff relatively, but the big ones are usually somewhat more ambitious. It is also very difficult to organize a (large) group of people, so big projects can be a bit hairy. (Just read Brooks' book The Mythical Man-Month or participate in some open source project with several people...) I don't think staying current is a problem for any serious geek with some talent. Partly this is because rapid change in computing is an illusion. Stuff you learned in CS (software design, good coding habits, algorithms) might apply for decades. Also programming languages like C, interfaces like OpenGL, protocols like TCP/IP and system architectures like UNIX usually change very slowly. Besides, new stuff is based on old stuff... C++ is an extension of C, and is also based on previous object-oriented languages, and Java is made to be very similar to C++... You face a steeper learning curve when you go from one programming environment to another. This will happen because new stuff rises to popularity every now and then. Say, if you have been programming DirectX or OpenGL for Windows, and then you go to strat game AI programming on Linux, or Java games on mobile phones, you have a few new things to pick up... But I think you still will benefit from your old experiences and knowledge, partly because concepts in computing tend to be recycled.

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Post #: 6
- 6/29/2001 10:41:00 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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I have NO experience in programing but....... I do have experience in running a business. You want to make software there is two ways to go. You can be the slave or the slave driver. Identify what it is that you want to produce. Learn all about it from every angle. Go to trade shows, and learn the insider secrets. Then decide and decide well. If you go the slave route, it will be low paying hard work for almost no real reward. But then you can always quit and do something else. If you want to be the slave driver, start by getting a slave position for at least a year and see what it looks from the bottom at least. Then lay out your business plan. Design your business and determine what it is you want to do. Now here's the hard part. You is going to need money. Yeah wonderful thing money. Bankers only give out money to people that can demonstrate they know how to make money. Bankers wont know diddly about software, so dont waste time explaining it to them. Show them your financial forecasts and you might have a chance though. This all of course assumes you have gone through at least a basic business course (nope you aint done just learning how to write code dude, unless you are going for option one "being a slave") The problem with all software is it takes time. You have to think ahead. Do something that hasnt been done. The wargame market is a small field. There is NO big money in wargames period. Makes me wonder how we get guys to make them in the first place. Its obviously like what has been mentioned in a few earlier comments, something that you have to WANT to do. Otherwise you aint gonna like it much. As for it being 24/7. Well it depends. You can take a year not seeing a single human soul and accomplish a lot, or take 10 years and enjoy the process. Of course the problem is that the computer industry is really only about 10 years old to some extent. The world sure has changed since I bought my IMB PS1 (which today is only good for use as a typewriter). But these are all just my thoughts connected with, are you prepared to make software.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 7
- 6/29/2001 11:27:00 PM   
VictorH

 

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From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
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I am also interested in programming wargames. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any examples on how a wargame program is written. Is there any source anywhere that one can see and learn from. I would love to see source code for a game like War in Russia. Does anyone know where one can find such information? None of the books I have looked at even hint at how to code a simple hex map and terrain objects like those used in War In Russia. I have worked with C, C++ and VB so have a good bit of knowledg on how to program. I just need a bit of help. :cool:

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Post #: 8
- 7/2/2001 11:58:00 AM   
varis

 

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From: Helsinki, Finland
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VictorH, there is plenty of code available. Look at those open source projects. I wonder if any game companies have released code to wargames. I know sources for Descent and Quake have been released.

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Post #: 9
- 7/4/2001 1:18:00 AM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
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From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
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Hi Varis, I checked out the open source site you mentioned. Unfortunately it is devoted to Linux based development efforts. Do you know of a similar site for Windows based development. In any case I will explore whats out there because "code is code is code" and what is written for Linux can be used on Windows if C or C++ are used. Thanks Much :)

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Post #: 10
- 7/4/2001 7:03:00 PM   
varis

 

Posts: 5
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From: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, there is a reason why Linux gets many more open source projects than Windows. A number of reasons, actually :) Still, SourceForge has quite a few game projects that support Windows too. I think you can browse by platform...

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Post #: 11
- 7/5/2001 3:01:00 AM   
RickyB

 

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From: Denver, CO USA
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quote:

Originally posted by VictorH: I am also interested in programming wargames. Unfortunately I have not been able to find any examples on how a wargame program is written. Is there any source anywhere that one can see and learn from. I would love to see source code for a game like War in Russia. Does anyone know where one can find such information? None of the books I have looked at even hint at how to code a simple hex map and terrain objects like those used in War In Russia. I have worked with C, C++ and VB so have a good bit of knowledg on how to program. I just need a bit of help. :cool:
Try www.gamedev.net for some good information. They have an isometric section and forum, which includes information on hex based maps.

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Rick Bancroft
Semper Fi





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Post #: 12
- 7/5/2001 8:29:00 PM   
pxreiman

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 6/15/2001
From: Illinois
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quote:

I wonder if any game companies have released code to wargames. I know sources for Descent and Quake have been released.
Along that line, I was sincerely hoping that Battleline might be open sourced - it's got potential to cover a lot of ground in both time and space.

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Post #: 13
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