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RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 6:10:28 AM   
timtom


Posts: 2358
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:



I have always felt that once Iwo was taken by the allies B-29 op losses from the Mariannas should be less. Is this being looked at or is it even possible?



MichaelM did a feasibility study on a similar issue (in code terms) and found that it couldn't be done with the current code. So in my uneducated opinion, no.

quote:



Will USAAF long range recon assets (B-24 and B-29) be included?



F-7 & F-13 both, along with the appropriate OOB. See also post #256 ;)


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Post #: 301
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 7:19:53 AM   
BB57

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 1/20/2003
From: Beresford, SD
Status: offline 		I'll read that to say if it was used in the Pacific most likely it is in! USAF background is 100 SRW and it bugged me that the long range recon was left out of WitP I.  Thank You.

(in reply to timtom)
Post #: 302
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:22:50 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		SAIEW.... SAIEW... SAIEW...

c'mon, guys, Stop Making Sense!

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Post #: 303
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 12:08:36 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Shameless BUMP...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

I don't think this was asked before regarding upcoming WitP-AE...


Is there any modification to airbase overstacking rule?

Are there any modifications that differ 1-engine planes from 2-engine and 4-engine aircraft (all regarding stacking rules of airbases)?


Thanks in advance!



Leo "Apollo11"

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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 304
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 12:30:40 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hvymtl13

Great plan on this expansion. Sounds great.
I read all the previous posts and good questions and answers. So I have only a couple:
Recon was mentioned fairly often so far, but no mention of intercepting them. I've noticed myself and read a few threads on this subject that imply they are overly difficult to shoot down.


Recon should be very difficult to shoot down. WITP is an operational game - players don't control tactics as such - but clearly recon pilots will attempt to come in at the "wrong" altitude - at a time when escape into darkness or clouds is feasible - etc. Note that the lowly Glen was able to do not only pre Pearl Harbor recon - but post strike recon as well - in spite of being low and slow and the enemy having many fighter planes and being on such a high state of alert no aircraft was safe (including those in US markings). Recon aircraft have a number of tactical advantages and assets, and figuring out in time that they can be intercepted at all is difficult - and rare. In the normal case in WWII no intercept was made. When it was, in the normal case it failed.

Actual intercept - from the ground - is difficult indeed. But it is quite true that CAP has a shot - IF it is high enough and IF it sees the recon plane. The problem is - a single aircraft coming in optimizing the chances not to be seen inherant in the situation often is not seen in time. Another problem is that recon will normally be above the altitude CAP should be at if it is to be effective against bombers.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 12/12/2007 12:33:14 PM >

(in reply to hvymtl13)
Post #: 305
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 2:01:48 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Spence, there's a big difference between shooting down practically no minelayers and having 0% chance of ever shooting down a minelayer.


The total loss of minelaying aircraft during the 6 month campaign against the Home Islands was 15 aircraft to all causes. Since all mining missions occur at night I'll wager that the ops losses provided by the game engine mechanics exceed the actual losses considerably.


Spence, I'm not arguing history. I agree that 15 aircraft lost is inconsequential. My argument for trying to fix this is for alternate history purposes. If the Japanese are able to field a capable air force in 1943, then the Japanese should be the ability to contest the Allied aerial minelaying campaign.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 306
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 2:17:12 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Spence, there's a big difference between shooting down practically no minelayers and having 0% chance of ever shooting down a minelayer.


The total loss of minelaying aircraft during the 6 month campaign against the Home Islands was 15 aircraft to all causes. Since all mining missions occur at night I'll wager that the ops losses provided by the game engine mechanics exceed the actual losses considerably.


Spence, I'm not arguing history. I agree that 15 aircraft lost is inconsequential. My argument for trying to fix this is for alternate history purposes. If the Japanese are able to field a capable air force in 1943, then the Japanese should be the ability to contest the Allied aerial minelaying campaign.

No one should be arguing anything on this thread...

Thanks.

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Post #: 307
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 3:18:24 PM   
Sonny II

 

Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheElf


........................

No one should be arguing anything on this thread...

Thanks.



Bravo! Bravissimo!

Nor should they be arguing on any of the AE specific threads.

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 308
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 3:48:38 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Forgot to ask before: PV-2 Harpoons in AE?

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Post #: 309
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 4:28:28 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Will the following bug be fixed:

Fighters trying to escort Recon missions but getting "UNABLE TO LOCATE TARGET". Thereby exhausting themselves and also rendering themselves unable to participate in the actual air combat phase.

It happens all the time, you must have seen it ...

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 310
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 4:34:10 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
quote:

SAIEW.... SAIEW... SAIEW...

c'mon, guys, Stop Making Sense!


Hehe, I also wondered whether SAIEW was a Talking Heads reference.

Back on-topic: I can't remember whether this has been asked/answered -- will there be any change to the procedure for transferring aircraft? I think Elf or someone acknowledged working on the fog-of-war aspect of air transfers (the player moving second gets more info about transfers than the player moving first). Will AE address the question of whether transferred aircraft should immediately be able fly missions?

Forgive me if this has been asked; I've read all these threads but it's easy to lose track.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 311
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 5:44:27 PM   
Rainerle

 

Posts: 463
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Burghausen/Bavaria
Status: offline 		Hi,
can we have night transport flights only (to contested bases)? Can the Japanese use the transport float planes for attacking enemy bases (i.e. non paratroop units but they are not paradropped of course).

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Post #: 312
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 6:23:34 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		I like the idea of Lizzies being used as light bombers I don't know if this has been covered yet, but here's some stuff I would like to see that either isn't really in the current game or isn't there at all:

Blenheim MkV
A few of the unarmed Beauforts that were in Singers at the start of the Pacific war and were used for recce missions
Some of the modified Buffaloes that were used for similar missions IIRC
Thunderbolt MkI & MkII
Liberator GRV etc for proper anti-sub missions
Ansons
Hurricane IIb
Hurricane IIc
Hurricane TRII
Hurricane IV
Spitfire PRIV
PR Mitchells
Beaufighter MkIc
Beaufighter MkX (I don't think the RAF used them for lugging torps around in SE Asia)
Beaufort transports as used by the RAAF

One for the JFBs out there: How about the ability to employ a limited number of prototype a/c before their general introduction (a la the Tojo in China), may be beyond the limits of what is poissible though...
A proper RAF Tiger Force
Maybe sticking 8 Sqn under a restricted command to stop the Allied player moving them from Aden where they spent most of the war carrying out ASW.
Royal Navy MONABs and shore based squadrons

I know some of this is probably in already and some of this is obviously far more likely than other stuff, but as the actress said to the bishop 'If you don't ask you don't get'.

You will learn to dread my posts

EDIT: What Brady said in the post under mine

< Message edited by Dixie -- 12/12/2007 6:32:05 PM >

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Post #: 313
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 6:28:59 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Forgive me if this was covvered, but I cant see that it has been thus far:

Has the tell tail red line present for recon flights been done away with, and given that most recon flights went compleatly unnoticed, is their a rutine that would alow for this in game, that the enemy might not even see the flight.

Also can we do recon flights at night?

  

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Post #: 314
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 6:51:36 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Is there a cap on total number of pilots as in WITP?  I think it was 20,000 initially and one upgrade improved that to 30,000.  Just wondering because if so many new air units are being added, won't that affect the cap on pilots?

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 315
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:16:44 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Has the tell tail red line present for recon flights been done away with, and given that most recon flights went compleatly unnoticed, is their a rutine that would alow for this in game, that the enemy might not even see the flight.



I would like to second this and take it one step further:

The red lines lines showing the origin of air attacks should only be shown when the origin of the attack is detected. And, if the attack is detected (say) halfway, then the red line should only be drawn halfway. The red line should also be subject to Fog Of War - it could be displayed incorrectly!

I don't know if the current engine can accommodate these suggestions, but it would be great if they could.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 316
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:46:58 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Forgot to ask before: PV-2 Harpoons in AE?

Yup.

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Post #: 317
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:50:34 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Grotius

quote:

SAIEW.... SAIEW... SAIEW...

c'mon, guys, Stop Making Sense!


quote:

Hehe, I also wondered whether SAIEW was a Talking Heads reference.


Not a reference, but an influence.


quote:

Back on-topic: I can't remember whether this has been asked/answered -- will there be any change to the procedure for transferring aircraft? I think Elf or someone acknowledged working on the fog-of-war aspect of air transfers (the player moving second gets more info about transfers than the player moving first). Will AE address the question of whether transferred aircraft should immediately be able fly missions?


Wasn't me. They are available to fly, but still subject to ops loss and damage.





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Post #: 318
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:51:40 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Hi,
can we have night transport flights only (to contested bases)? Can the Japanese use the transport float planes for attacking enemy bases (i.e. non paratroop units but they are not paradropped of course).

OTS

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Post #: 319
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:53:07 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Has the tell tail red line present for recon flights been done away with, and given that most recon flights went compleatly unnoticed, is their a rutine that would alow for this in game, that the enemy might not even see the flight.



I would like to second this and take it one step further:

The red lines lines showing the origin of air attacks should only be shown when the origin of the attack is detected. And, if the attack is detected (say) halfway, then the red line should only be drawn halfway. The red line should also be subject to Fog Of War - it could be displayed incorrectly!

I don't know if the current engine can accommodate these suggestions, but it would be great if they could.

Last time I played WitP the red line was gone. Maybe I am thinking of AE. Can't remember now... I haven't played stock since we started this little project.

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Post #: 320
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 8:53:51 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Is there a cap on total number of pilots as in WITP? I think it was 20,000 initially and one upgrade improved that to 30,000. Just wondering because if so many new air units are being added, won't that affect the cap on pilots?

The database is much bigger. Not sure what the new limitations are.

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Post #: 321
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 9:40:28 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Will there be a chance for naval search to misidentify and thus mislead air strikes onto coral reefs and whales?  Or simply to say there is a task force in one hex when in fact it is several away.  I guess kinda like a random (low) chance for spotting mishaps to better, simulate war time nerves and inexperiance?

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 322
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 10:36:28 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Pax River, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Will there be a chance for naval search to misidentify and thus mislead air strikes onto coral reefs and whales? Or simply to say there is a task force in one hex when in fact it is several away. I guess kinda like a random (low) chance for spotting mishaps to better, simulate war time nerves and inexperiance?

The question is will you realize it when it happens or come to me and say this is broken?

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Post #: 323
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 10:44:10 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

Will there be a chance for naval search to misidentify and thus mislead air strikes onto coral reefs and whales?


Reefs are ok

But PLEASE no whales or dolphins.

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Post #: 324
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 10:48:13 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I wouldn't, but I see your point, maybe a button you can turn on and off (insert smiley)
Sorry sometimes my creativity runs away with my mind.  How do you insert the smileys?

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Post #: 325
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 10:49:43 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		My bad flipper. It was careless of me to not worry about the feelings of the smartest of all mammals

(in reply to wworld7)
Post #: 326
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 10:57:18 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline 		You are forgiven.

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Post #: 327
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/12/2007 11:08:10 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		One more question and I'll leave you to important stuff. Will there be a Dumbo mission type or a better chance to retrieve/rescue pilots, perhaps as the war goes on?

I lied 2nd question popped into my head. When pilots are MIA or WIA is there a set time for them to come back (WIA) or when they are declared KIA or return from being missed?

Really sorry now I have a 3rd question. So we can individually select a pilot and send them back to train others or is it just leaders of the unit?

Thanks

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 328
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/13/2007 12:34:49 AM   
langley


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Newbury, Berkshire, England.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

I like the idea of Lizzies being used as light bombers I don't know if this has been covered yet, but here's some stuff I would like to see that either isn't really in the current game or isn't there at all:

Blenheim MkV
A few of the unarmed Beauforts that were in Singers at the start of the Pacific war and were used for recce missions
Some of the modified Buffaloes that were used for similar missions IIRC
Thunderbolt MkI & MkII
Liberator GRV etc for proper anti-sub missions
Ansons
Hurricane IIb
Hurricane IIc
Hurricane TRII
Hurricane IV
Spitfire PRIV
PR Mitchells
Beaufighter MkIc
Beaufighter MkX (I don't think the RAF used them for lugging torps around in SE Asia)
Beaufort transports as used by the RAAF

One for the JFBs out there: How about the ability to employ a limited number of prototype a/c before their general introduction (a la the Tojo in China), may be beyond the limits of what is poissible though...
A proper RAF Tiger Force
Maybe sticking 8 Sqn under a restricted command to stop the Allied player moving them from Aden where they spent most of the war carrying out ASW.
Royal Navy MONABs and shore based squadrons

I know some of this is probably in already and some of this is obviously far more likely than other stuff, but as the actress said to the bishop 'If you don't ask you don't get'.

You will learn to dread my posts

EDIT: What Brady said in the post under mine

I think you have hit the nail on the head, I like this a lot. May I also suggest 21 RAAf starts with Buffalo Mk Is Also why not give Boston Mk III artwork to the RAAF for 22 squadron RAAF.
For the USAAF are the P40F and P40K both in?

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Post #: 329
RE: Admiral's Edition Air War Thread - 12/13/2007 12:39:03 AM   
langley


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Newbury, Berkshire, England.
Status: offline 		Another Thing while I think of it will aircraft have a start Production date and an end production date in the database!

Cheers

MJT

_____________________________

"My God, I hope you don't blame me for this. I had no idea where you were."
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Post #: 330
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