jwilkerson
Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: paul
No, they don't work. Only if you set Zekes on max altitude, above Hellcats ceiling...
I guess you tried to say that kamis not been touched, but with new A2A combat routine some of them will FINALLY get trough?
So back to the issue.
Do Kamis (or Okhas) "work" in stock ?? Well, I think this depends on your definition of "work".
After being told for months (or was it years) that Ohkas never worked, that exhaustive testing had been done which proved that Okha never, ever made an attack/hit, and went and tried it myself. And holy cow, the very first time I tried it, they attacked and hit. And I posted this. I tried it several more times and sometimes they attacked/hit and sometimes not. But after far less than "exhastive" testing, they attacked/hit greater than zero times. Does this mean Okha are perfect? No.
In fact we went and looked at the code and found an issue, which has been fixed in 1.8.0.7 and in AE. This did not prevent them from attacking, actually it allowed small attacks to happen when they should not have, but it decreased the number of Okha that got thrown away in small useless attacks. The details are the if the "fly/no-fly" decision resulted in 0 planes selected to fly, and if you had an Okha flight - then a bug allowed one Okha flight to fly anyway, even though it should not have. This resulted in like 4 Okha flying, which would pretty much always fail against any kind of CAP or flak. We have fixed this bug. In my case, when I first saw it work, in my first test, I had 11 flying, so I passed the "fly" check and got more than one flight. But subsequent testing revealed strange behavior and eventually MichaelM and I nailed this one. One may not agree with HOW the Okha work, the reliance on the EXP of the Bomber crew, but, given the evidence we have at this point, I don't think it makes much sense to say that Okha do not "work".
So, what about Kamis? Both NikMod and WITP-AE have attempted to address the "Uber CAP" issue, though in different ways. Nik changed the data, because he couldn't change the code. We have taken the code change approach because we could. But both solutions reduce the bloodiness of a2a combat and allow more "leakers" to get through the CAP. This may result in Kamis getting through without having to use the altitude trick.
I think Termi's point though was that the code allows Kamis to fly and to strike and damage ships. Pauk was saying, that "effectively" Kamis don't work because they can't get through the CAP. But actually both seem to be correct - I say seem - because I haven't done any testing in this area myself. But given the evidence I've seen, Kamis "work" they just can't get through the Uber CAP. So, from my perspective, this is really just another symptom of the "Uber CAP" problem, which we are definitely trying to solve. It was in our top 4 issues (and all of the top four issues were air combat related IIRC).
But we need to test to determine if WITP-AE has sufficiently fixed Uber CAP to allow the right amount of Kamis to leak through to provide a historical feel. We don't know that yet. We're still finishing up the Air OOB and can't start full integration testing until we do. But stay tuned, and stay cool!
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