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RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 3:53:15 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just read a couple of the reviews. Well done!

Lookslike another to add to the 'to buy' list...




Yeah - very entertaining read, actually... Tiornu ferrets out some very interesting facts (one of my favorites was the British BB where someone had put in some army howitizer(s) to bolster the secondary armament! )

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 12/24/2007 3:54:18 PM >

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Post #: 61
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 6:37:38 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		How could a reviewer actually complain about having to read the ENTIRE book!  Drives one nuts...


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Post #: 62
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 6:42:01 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just read a couple of the reviews. Well done!

Lookslike another to add to the 'to buy' list...




Yeah - very entertaining read, actually... Tiornu ferrets out some very interesting facts (one of my favorites was the British BB where someone had put in some army howitizer(s) to bolster the secondary armament! )


Do we have the full citation on the "Tiornu" book?



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Post #: 63
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 7:36:36 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Do we have the full citation on the "Tiornu" book?




Yes. The man's a looney. I was always correcting him on warships1.com. He secretly worships me. One can easily see why.

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Post #: 64
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 8:23:17 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

How could a reviewer actually complain about having to read the ENTIRE book!  Drives one nuts...




Does "because he's a lazy hack..." sound about right?

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Post #: 65
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/24/2007 9:48:30 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

I have seen that Eric Trammel has been doing a series of books on the Guadalcanal Campaign. Has anyone read them?



I think you mean Eric Hammel. I have read "Decsion at Sea: The Naval Battle of Guadalcanal" and "Starvation Island". The former title is self explanatory as far as what it covers (Nov 12-15, 1942) and is a pretty good look at where the USN (mostly) was as far as surface battle at the time. "Starvation Island" deals with the land campaign mostly though it also describes the naval battles of Savo Island, Cape Esperance and Tassafaronga in some detail. The third volume deals with the carrier battles of Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz but I haven't ever managed to get my hands on it (don't remember the exact title).

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Post #: 66
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/25/2007 2:03:03 AM   
Tiornu

 

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quote:

I was always correcting him on warships1.com. He secretly worships me. One can easily see why.
Didn't I warn you that, if this kept up, we'd have to increase your dosage? That'll be two of the shiny blue capsules for you from now on.

quote:

Do we have the full citation on the "Tiornu" book?
Worth, Richard. Fleets of World War II. Da Capo Press, 2001.
BrucePowers asked me to give a head's-up when my next title was coming out. I was expecting a June release, but to my surprise they've pushed to January 20 or thereabouts. It's Raising the Red Banner by Vladimir Yakubov and me; if you have any interest in early Soviet warships (early = 1920-45), you may want to give it a look. It is well illustrated with 240 photos, and it gives an overview of the main warship classes in that period. The publisher is Spellmount in Britain, and you'll find it listed at various Amazons but not Amazon US, for some reason.

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Post #: 67
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/25/2007 4:44:35 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

quote:

I was always correcting him on warships1.com. He secretly worships me. One can easily see why.
Didn't I warn you that, if this kept up, we'd have to increase your dosage? That'll be two of the shiny blue capsules for you from now on.

quote:

Do we have the full citation on the "Tiornu" book?
Worth, Richard. Fleets of World War II. Da Capo Press, 2001.
BrucePowers asked me to give a head's-up when my next title was coming out. I was expecting a June release, but to my surprise they've pushed to January 20 or thereabouts. It's Raising the Red Banner by Vladimir Yakubov and me; if you have any interest in early Soviet warships (early = 1920-45), you may want to give it a look. It is well illustrated with 240 photos, and it gives an overview of the main warship classes in that period. The publisher is Spellmount in Britain, and you'll find it listed at various Amazons but not Amazon US, for some reason.


Thanks! Will check this out!


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Post #: 68
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/25/2007 7:13:03 PM   
hvymtl13


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Status: offline 		Sun Tzu of course. The Art of War. Although this book is not specifically about Naval Combat which is predominantly the WITP action, the basic concepts and tactics are easily converted to use in Naval warfare. Especially for planning stages if one uses the concepts and tactics described.
As for books that portray the "feel" of the war in the Pacific I am a big fan of WEB Griffin's series- The Corps.
Historical accounts are good but many are debatle as far as accuracy and conclusions.

< Message edited by hvymtl13 -- 12/25/2007 7:14:45 PM >

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Post #: 69
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/28/2007 6:35:20 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Just got my copies of The First Team Vol 1 and 2 today!  Reading has commenced...


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Post #: 70
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/28/2007 3:31:37 PM   
BeastieDog


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Status: offline 		Has anyone read Japanese Military Strategy in the Pacific War:Was Defeat Inevitable? by James B. Wood?

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Post #: 71
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/28/2007 5:12:17 PM   
msieving1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

How could a reviewer actually complain about having to read the ENTIRE book!  Drives one nuts...




Does "because he's a lazy hack..." sound about right?



To be fair to the reviewer, he doesn't complain about having to read the entire book. The offending sentence is: "It has interesting tidbits, but you have to look through out the whole book to find them." That, to me, is saying that the interesting parts of the book are few and scattered. The impression I get from the review is that the book covers a lot of material, but with limited depth. Whether that's an accurate assessment, I can't say. I haven't read the book. That would be pretty typical of most non-specialist books on warships that I've seen, though.


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Post #: 72
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/29/2007 2:13:43 AM   
miral

 

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Status: offline 		H.P. Willmott writes the most extraordinarily brilliant books on the strategic aspects of WWII, especially in the Pacific, I have ever seen. If you can't afford the bigger ones see The War with Japan, the Period of Balance. He savages those historians who produce yet another chronological rehash of what happened when. It is time, he says, for historians to tackle why things happened as they did. He criticised severely Spector's Eagle Against the Sun, a highly praised history, as yet another 'this happened, then this happened.' His one vol history of WWII, The Great Crusade, is wonderful, especially as he was one of the early historians to attack the myth of German military greatness; the Russia only won because of massive superiority of numbers.

His books on the Pacific War are particularly interesting when he comments that a war in which one side HAD to lose after the opening shot cannot be said to have any Turning Point Battle. Running out of time but read this man's work; it is unique and utterly thought provoking.

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Post #: 73
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/29/2007 7:42:48 AM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

"My favorite was from the guy who complained that you had to read the entire book to get all the information from it. "

Yet another reason to dismiss critics as the leaches and remora who prey on those who actually contribute.......


Now would you be criticizing the critics?...not that they count.

< Message edited by treespider -- 12/29/2007 7:44:18 AM >

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Post #: 74
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/29/2007 3:13:13 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Status: offline 		A personal favourite of mine

Pheonix from the Ashes : The Indian Army in the Burma Campaign by Danial P Marston he follows several bns throughput the war analysing the changes that occurred in training an doctrine.



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Post #: 75
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 9:06:51 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I REALLY want to read Willmott's stuff!

Have gotten about 1/3 of the way through The First Team and LOVE the detail!  Have laready learned all sorts of interesting tidbits regarding the CV Operations and issues that the Americans were dealing with in the first few months of the war.  It led me to post in the AE Naval Thread!  Good stuff to say the least...

What are people's opinion of the Japanese Merchant Marine history by Dr....I CANNOT think of his name?!!    He is at Kansas State.  He was to be my advisor for my Ph. D. Program there and I am drawing a complete blank...

<<<EDIT>>>

Mark Parillo! Cannot believe that I forgot his name. Had to hop on the K-State website. How good is his book?


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 12/30/2007 9:10:47 AM >

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Post #: 76
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 7:23:24 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I REALLY want to read Willmott's stuff!

Have gotten about 1/3 of the way through The First Team and LOVE the detail!  Have laready learned all sorts of interesting tidbits regarding the CV Operations and issues that the Americans were dealing with in the first few months of the war.  It led me to post in the AE Naval Thread!  Good stuff to say the least...

What are people's opinion of the Japanese Merchant Marine history by Dr....I CANNOT think of his name?!!    He is at Kansas State.  He was to be my advisor for my Ph. D. Program there and I am drawing a complete blank...

<<<EDIT>>>

Mark Parillo! Cannot believe that I forgot his name. Had to hop on the K-State website. How good is his book?



Willmott (the 2 volume series) is good, definitely worth having, but don't set your expectations too high, the second volume, which mostly covers Coral Sea and Midway, is good, but not at the level of detail you will see in newer works like Lundstrom.

Parillo's work was a bit of a disappointment for me. I guess I had my expectations set too high. Not much detail. I was hoping for lists of ships and details about classes, etc. Instead we mostly have a narrative about the business, economic and political decisions that led to the Japanese having the merchant marine that it had.

But, I guess it is all about expections. Set your expectations nice and low and maybe you won't be disappointed!



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Post #: 77
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 7:49:43 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Well...that is disappointing...I had hoped it was a technical as well as political/economic work.  I'll drop it about 10 spaces on my 'to buy' list.

The Willmott that I have heard so much about is Barrier Against the Javelin.  I have heard it to be fantastic.  Agree/Disagree?


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Post #: 78
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 8:04:00 PM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Well...that is disappointing...I had hoped it was a technical as well as political/economic work.  I'll drop it about 10 spaces on my 'to buy' list.

The Willmott that I have heard so much about is Barrier Against the Javelin.  I have heard it to be fantastic.  Agree/Disagree?



I get the Willmotts mixed up ... looking ... ok ... B&J is the second one, which mostly covers Coral Sea and Midway. I'd say for 30 or so years ago when it was written, it was fantastic. But now a days, with works like Lundstrom running around, I'd say B&J is pretty much just another classical, fairly high level description of the battle.

But the other one of the pair Empires in the Balance, spends a whole lot more time off the shelf and on my desk. This is because is contains a good description of the land combat in Malaya. At least better than anything else I have.

Perhaps the most lasting aspect of Willmott's work however, is his strategic assessment of the Japanese options in earl 1942. Either go East against the Americans, South against the Aussies or West against the Brito-Indians. He thinks the Japanese should have gone against the Brito-Indians. And this is because, as a Brit he sees that Indian was so very weak that if pushed it should have been easy to take. And I heard this same view from my father when I was a child. My father was in the RN stationed in Ceylon and never understood why the Japanese didn't just take India. So Willmott echos that idea for sure.

I actually don't happen to agree, I think the Japanese clearly had one enemy, America and nothing else mattered if you didn't have a strategy to stop the Americans. But I don't have a good option for the Japanese either!
:)

I certainly don't regret having Willmott's works on my shelf, they have been there since the early 80s. But knowing what I know a this stage, I would not rush out and buy them now. I would hunt for some of the newer works (or even the older ones) with more detail. At this stage, I'm not much looking for prose. Give me charts and tables - the REALLY DRY stuff!
:D




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RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 8:04:40 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Willmott (the 2 volume series) is good, definitely worth having, but don't set your expectations too high, the second volume, which mostly covers Coral Sea and Midway, is good, but not at the level of detail you will see in newer works like Lundstrom.


When Barrier first came out it was an eye opener for me because of its treatment of Coral Sea as a week-long operation rather than just as a carrier battle. Also it was the first analysis of Midway I had read that showed the IJ defeat as not miraculous at all but pretty much inevitable given their plan and their doctrine. Both battles are handled in much greater detail in First Team and Shattered Sword.

Barrier's highlight is its discussion of strategic decision-making by both sides during the first half of 1942. But as with its treatment of the carrier battles, much of this discussion seems rather obvious now; I'm not sure whether this is because I have read Barrier so many times, or because of other later readings, or because of thinking and playing WitP so much in the past few years....

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Post #: 80
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 8:06:10 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
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From: Kansas
Status: offline 		my goodness Irr ... I think one of us is TRULY irrelevant!!!





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Post #: 81
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 8:07:52 PM   
tsimmonds


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Status: offline 		Well, I knew I was, but to find that you are as well is truly a surprise

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Post #: 82
RE: Books to Recommend - 12/30/2007 11:06:28 PM   
Local Yokel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I REALLY want to read Willmott's stuff!

Have gotten about 1/3 of the way through The First Team and LOVE the detail!  Have laready learned all sorts of interesting tidbits regarding the CV Operations and issues that the Americans were dealing with in the first few months of the war.  It led me to post in the AE Naval Thread!  Good stuff to say the least...

What are people's opinion of the Japanese Merchant Marine history by Dr....I CANNOT think of his name?!!    He is at Kansas State.  He was to be my advisor for my Ph. D. Program there and I am drawing a complete blank...

<<<EDIT>>>

Mark Parillo! Cannot believe that I forgot his name. Had to hop on the K-State website. How good is his book?



Willmott (the 2 volume series) is good, definitely worth having, but don't set your expectations too high, the second volume, which mostly covers Coral Sea and Midway, is good, but not at the level of detail you will see in newer works like Lundstrom.

Parillo's work was a bit of a disappointment for me. I guess I had my expectations set too high. Not much detail. I was hoping for lists of ships and details about classes, etc. Instead we mostly have a narrative about the business, economic and political decisions that led to the Japanese having the merchant marine that it had.

But, I guess it is all about expections. Set your expectations nice and low and maybe you won't be disappointed!




If you want ship class details and the like then Parillo's book is not for you - instead you might try the CD-ROM version of ONI-208J: the USN recognition manual on Japanese merchantmen.

I thought jwilkerson's assessment of Parillo's book was a bit harsh. Actually there's quite a lot of hard stats, graphs etc in it, and if you have any interest in Japanese logistics then it will repay study, if only because (to my knowledge) there are no other works that tackle the subject.

Even so, I too was disappointed. Parillo breaks down his subject matter into chapters that deal with facets of the problems the Japanese faced, and the chapter headings give a clue to his approach: "Managing the Resource", "The Other 'Silent Service'" (escorts), "Rumbling Down the Ways" (shipbuilding), "The Floating Peril" (mines) - and so forth. But I would have preferred a chronological treatment of the subject; it would have better put into context the shortcomings in what the Japanese did and did not do.

I began reading Parillo with the expectation of finding that the Japanese, as a maritime nation, had moved heaven and earth to mitigate the attack upon their seaborne lines of communication. At the end of the book I was left feeling "Was that the best they could do? They could have done so much more!" So in reality my sense of dissatisfaction was prompted not so much by the author's approach as by the failures he describes.

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RE: Books to Recommend - 1/7/2008 11:09:33 PM   
Koniev

 

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Status: offline 		Reading through the posts on this thread, I noticed the concern about prices. I have a large(?) library of books about WW 2 (all aspects) and have spent a great deal of money over the years.

To help remedy the situation I would suggest that when searching for a particular book you visit www.abebooks.com. It's a world-wide bookstore.

I have found books about obscure parts of the war I'd never considered (or forgotten about). The prices are more than reasonable (surprisingly low in many cases) but shipping, although in line and not exorbitant, is getting to be a large consideration. For this reason I have foregone books I'd like to have but don't want to deal with shipping them across the Atlantic (or the Pacific from Australia). That can get heavy.

There are two books that readily come to mind concerning the Pacific war that I would heartily recommend.

"How They Won The War In The Pacific and The Thousand Mile War

I can't give the authors because my books are all packed up preparing to move to my new office upstairs(mancave). But, I'm sure if you go to abebooks, you can find them by title.

The first is a voluminous study of the thousands of details and personnel that Admiral Nimitz had to deal with. It's almost a management study but it is highly readable.

The second is a history of the Aleutian Campaign and (if memory serves) describes the building of the AlCan Highway.

There are some books the WW2 history buff should not be without;
History of the United States Navy in World War 2 by Morrison
The 5 or 6 Volume history by Winston Churchill
The US Army's official history. It's my understanding that this is not yet complete and willl eventuall comprise some 150
vols. They are relatively hard to get and are somewhat expensive but they contain the best maps available, usually
large fold outs.
Delivered From Evil - another huge book, even in paperback. Should be available from abebooks.

Hope this helps.




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Post #: 84
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/8/2008 1:01:26 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I love the Thousand Mile War!  Have Churchill's set of six and I must say that it is just as good now as then!

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Post #: 85
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/8/2008 1:08:40 AM   
Koniev

 

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Status: offline 		John - Have you checked out abebooks, yet?

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Post #: 86
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/8/2008 2:37:10 AM   
madgamer2

 

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Status: offline 		I will check and see if I still have it but I read a great book on the life of Adm. Yamamoto

Lawrence

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Post #: 87
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/8/2008 3:29:06 AM   
RevRick


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Status: offline 		I used to do that when I was teaching English Lit. Dress up as a Shakespearean era person, and talk about the Bard in Elizabethan English. That was a lot of fun, and kept the kids attention a lot better than doing a Ben Stein on them.

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Post #: 88
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/11/2008 9:24:34 PM   
miral

 

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Status: offline 		Must come to H.P. Willmott's defense. No one is attacking him but some seem to be saying that he is dated. I disagree. Many of the people who play WITP and use this forum are real WWII addicts of technology and minute detail. This is not what Willmott writes about (although his knowledge of the technology is quite good - for anyone save a fanatic). He is primarily interested in the Strategic aspects of the War. Nor is all his work from 20 years ago. He has just published the best book I've ever seen on the Battle of Leyte Gulf (which is probably a battle that is impossible to write about comprehensively, given its huge size and sprawl). Also, see his two relatively short, fairly recent books, World War II, the War in the Far East and The Pacific War, the Period of Balance.

If you want a blow by blow of which fighter pilot turned his plane 30 degrees this way at eight minutes past 10am during the second day of the Coral Sea then Lundstrom will give it to you. This is necessary and good history but not for me; I find the detail crushing and repetitive after a while. Willmott deals with the Pacific War in its largest aspect and is particularly savage in his criticism of the absolute incompetence of the Japanese High Command.

His earlier books, including the Barrier and the Javelin, are very long and detailed strategic considerations of Japans early decisions in the first half of 1942. The later, shorter works cover longer periods of the war in fewer pages but are very incisive and insightful. I've read most of the other books mentioned in this thread and, again, I find no one as refreshingly different as Willmott. And he does have lots of charts for those who like such. In the Period of Balance see especially his charts breaking down and explaining the destruction of Japanese merchant and transport shipping. He also has a book with the last five or six years on Pearl Harbor, so he is by no means an historian of the preceeding generation.

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Post #: 89
RE: Books to Recommend - 1/11/2008 11:03:08 PM   
ctangus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: miral

Must come to H.P. Willmott's defense. No one is attacking him...


Let me be the first.

quote:

He has just published the best book I've ever seen on the Battle of Leyte Gulf (which is probably a battle that is impossible to write about comprehensively, given its huge size and sprawl).


I recently read that book & respectfully disagree. There's a few points that turned me off from it:

1. The writing was disjointed & it was just plain hard to read.

2. The Monday-morning Quarterbacking was far too much for me. With the amount of criticism Wilmott leveled at Kurita, Halsey and others one would think that neither side won the battle. Certainly mistakes were made by both sides, but the criticism was harsh & took little account of what it was like for the man on the hot seat.

3. While probably not applicable to most on this forum, the book presupposes knowledge of the Battle of Leyte Gulf. I would have been lost & put the book down after 10-20 pages if I didn't already know about it.

Joking aside I don't mean to attack Wilmott - he's a professional historian & I'm not and I did learn from the book. In particular I liked his analysis of the aftermath of the battle and its effect on subsequent shipping losses. But I'd personally recommend any number of books above it & in hindsight would rather have spent that $30 on several other books on my to-read list.

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Post #: 90
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