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Invalid Repatiation route bug

 
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Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/28/2007 11:53:51 PM   
gwheelock

 

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Had a battle in Berlin; France wins; gets unconditional; takes 3 Prov including S Pommeramia;Fr also owns Lausitz; main army is repatriated to S Pommeramia (distance 2) instead of Lausitz (distance 1)

(Or is S-Pom adjacent to Berlin ... doesn't look like it on map)




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< Message edited by gwheelock -- 12/29/2007 12:02:39 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/29/2007 2:10:26 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		That's a good question??? I cannot understand why they would end up there?
I'll take another look at the repatriation code.

< Message edited by Marshall Ellis -- 12/29/2007 2:11:02 PM >

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Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to gwheelock)
Post #: 2
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/29/2007 6:14:15 PM   
nappy

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 7/17/2003
Status: offline 		Yes the repatriation code is wierd. There was thread a while back on this. It seems repats are sometimes made *away* from the victors territory not towards it. IT wasnt funny having three french corps stuck in Wales....

V

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 3
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/29/2007 9:32:45 PM   
gwheelock

 

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nappy

Yes the repatriation code is wierd. There was thread a while back on this. It seems repats are sometimes made *away* from the victors territory not towards it. IT wasnt funny having three french corps stuck in Wales....

V


Actually that is one of the SMARTER things that the AI can due (if it's LEGAL).
Parking Nappy & the Grande Armee out somewhere where he can't intervene
while your allies go stomp the c**p out of Paris is a valid tactic (now if only the
other computer players would actually DO it...).

The solution for this is to take Forced Access as a victory condition.
([WHINE MODE] AWWW...But that cuts down on all the LOOOOT!!! [/WHINE MODE])

(in reply to nappy)
Post #: 4
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/30/2007 1:47:03 AM   
zaquex


Posts: 368
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Vastervik, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

The solution for this is to take Forced Access as a victory condition.


If you must take forced access as a peace condition everytime to ensure your main army isnt stuck somewhere immobile, conditional peace is obsolete.

Forced access is great and usually the first i pick, but there are situations where you want a quick peace, to make EiA a game where you force every war to be to the bitter end will make it a different game.

(in reply to gwheelock)
Post #: 5
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/30/2007 2:05:17 AM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		no, there is an optional rule in the boardgame.

12.4 Peace treaty limited access, simply put, your troops are not moved to your own territory, you instead have the following access! 3 months to remove garrisons (even with peace condition c5, you still required to remove garrisons from capitals) and corps, fleets and depots are allowed for 6 months. failure to do so, means gactors are demonilized and/or scuttled.

I hope this gets added eventually as well :)

(in reply to zaquex)
Post #: 6
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/30/2007 7:42:17 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		A valid alternative would be to stand down all corps and factors that are in enemy territory at the time of a surrender, and make them available for placement in the upcoming reinforcement phase.

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Del

(in reply to DodgyDave)
Post #: 7
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/30/2007 11:20:54 AM   
AndrewV

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/20/2007
Status: offline 		I've also had the French teleport from Berlin to S Pommeramia. And the Russian army teleport out of Turkey to Corfu. And 60+ factors stuck in Wales (which has no port). I've also seen the Turkish AI get their regulars stuck in Cyprus after their navy was sunk.

The current algorithm seems far to simplistic to me. (We always played with the optional limited access rule). The current rule as written, probably works ok if applied with by reasonable human beings, with a bit of flexibility and common sense, looking for a reasonable result.

quote:

A valid alternative would be to stand down all corps and factors that are in enemy territory at the time of a surrender, and make them available for placement in the upcoming reinforcement phase.

Allowing repatriated force to be placed as reinforcements would lead to French armies teleporting from Madrid to the Prussian border. instead bouncing to south France and then spending the next 3 months walking.

The best alternative I can think of is:
i. All countries, except England, teleport to the nearest friendly area from which they can walk to their capital.
ii. England teleports to the nearest friendly area from which they can walk to a port, excluding the Black sea ports.

Whilst this isn't perfect, I think it would be less problematic than the current rule.

It will result in a few cases of corps teleporting further than they necessarily should, (eg. Russian corps teleporting from London to Denmark, even though they have access to France).

England is assumed to be able to sail her corps back home from any port not in the Black Sea. This is not always true if she has lost Gibraltar or Malta and doesn't have access to suitable alternative ports. (Note that England also has the same problem with the existing rule. I'd suggest that if England isn't confident she can get her troops home, she should think carefully before committing them).

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 8
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/30/2007 3:35:59 PM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		delatbabel, problem with your suggestion is, if at war with prussia and spain, if your majority is at prussia, he surrenders, then next reinforcement, spain would suddenly face a big block of troops and after they surrender, he can setup those troops anywhere for next war. will not work, the 12.4 rule of limited access would be much better, as he at least have to move his troops around :)

(in reply to AndrewV)
Post #: 9
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/31/2007 7:17:45 AM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

A valid alternative would be to stand down all corps and factors that are in enemy territory at the time of a surrender, and make them available for placement in the upcoming reinforcement phase.

Yes. This was a flaw in the original game: One could get a pile of cavalry captured by the enemy. Then, peace occurs, and you get them all back. Never mind that you don't have any available corps with cav slots, because they all surrendered the turn before.

I had GB get an unconditional out of France right after losing his cav corps to a city siege (the cav were trying to hide). France was losing. He surrendered, and (accidentally, most likely -- it was the AI) turned all 8 British cav into infantry.

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 10
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 12/31/2007 9:48:34 AM   
zaquex


Posts: 368
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Vastervik, Sweden
Status: offline 		Its a bit of a tricky question, have to be looked at from a game balance perspective and a implementation perspective.

Basicly any solution is better than the current random teleport im still undecided though.

3 months limited access is the best and most natural option.

The second best option would in my oppinion be to make them available at next months land phase to be placed with 0 movement much like the turkish feudal corps. This will make the teleport less overpowering as some caution needs to be taken with placement and the corps cant immidiatly be used for offensive operations, its basicly two months where the corps cant be used and that seems reasonable as an abstraction in most cases.

Garrisons should be immidiatly available in the next reinforcement phase mostly for simplicity

However its impossible for me to say how valid these options are from an implementation point of view, guess only Marshal can answer that.


(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 11
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 1/1/2008 5:07:42 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		What about adding the factors to the reinforcement pool to be available in 3 months? It allows you to build corps for the units coming in if you wish to and prevents the immediate repatriation problem. The cost of the corp markers you lose would be less than supllying a walk home.

(in reply to zaquex)
Post #: 12
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 1/1/2008 5:33:12 AM   
Grollub


Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat

What about adding the factors to the reinforcement pool to be available in 3 months? It allows you to build corps for the units coming in if you wish to and prevents the immediate repatriation problem. The cost of the corp markers you lose would be less than supllying a walk home.


Seems fair. I the rules are to be changed I would vote for this option.


_____________________________

“Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 13
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 1/1/2008 8:17:30 AM   
zaquex


Posts: 368
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Vastervik, Sweden
Status: offline 		Definatly better than the current system, you pay for the counters each economic phase if they are on the board so this is in most cases cheaper. From an implementation point of view its probably a rather simple solution wich is good. The only thing im not 100% sure about is the time, 3 months can be a long time to be without your main army, on the other hand its probably a shorter time than to walk them home from quite a few of the wars you are going to be involved in during an average game and u get to deploy them where you want...

yeah its probably in all a good compromise

(in reply to Grollub)
Post #: 14
RE: Invalid Repatiation route bug - 1/1/2008 8:15:38 PM   
gwheelock

 

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline 		Another invalid retreat location : My Bavarian core fought & lost to an Austrian Core in Swabia & ended up back in BAVARIA instead of MANY valid adjacent locations.

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(in reply to zaquex)
Post #: 15
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