Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Beta Patch v1.020

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> Limited Public Beta Feedback >> Beta Patch v1.020 Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/17/2007 7:56:13 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
Hi guys,

At long last, there is finally a patch on the way! I've tested the installer. I imagine that it will be available by the end of Monday.

Warning1a: This patch is not compatible with older saves. For those wishing to continue playing current games, we suggest you first copy you’re A World Divided game to a new folder before applying this new patch to the originally installed AWD folder. You will be able to continue your old games by running the exe file from this copy of the game.

Warning1b: After installation, delete any old saves. Unfortunately the incompatibility with older saves can cause crashes if you have old save files in your save directory (Gary Grigsby's World at War A World Divided\dat\save) when you try to navigate files in the new AWD patch.

Warning2: This patch is a beta patch. Changes have been rather extensive, and playtesting only with a limited number of players. I hope the community will promptly report any issues, and I hope that I can promptly address them.



v1.020 RELEASE NOTES

0. Known bugs/issues
Unused factory points warning: this warning no longer works. Unfortunately, this issue was not observed until the patch was basically out the door. I hope to address it in a month or two, after the patch has some legs.


1. Scenarios
Global Glory: This is a brand new scenario! The scenario emphasizes the importance of oil with consideration of resources and “oil refineries” (factories in zero-population regions that can only produce supplies) and adds some rules for realism (such as air penalties at maximum range, narrows overflight by air units, and port benefits for transports).
Please check the scenario notes in a separate file.

All preexisting scenarios: Japan’s starting intelligence Security is increased from 8 to 12 for all ’39-’41 scenarios, to 15 for ’42-’43 scenarios.

All preexisting ’39-’42 scenarios: starting artillery evasion for all Players reduced to 5 (from 6).


2. Rule Changes
Note: rule changes apply to all preexisting scenarios. The new scenario Global Glory includes all of the following rule changes, and other additional rules. See the Global Glory description separately.

Japanese a-bomb surrender: this rule has been changed, so that now the a-bomb must actually be successfully dropped on Japan to induce surrender. The Japanese VP threshold for surrender is also reduced from 10 to 7.
 IF
   (     the a-bomb is dropped on a factory in a non-zero population Japanese nationality region
     AND causes a double hit
     AND at the end of that same turn the Japanese VPs is below 7
     AND Japan at war with Russia
   )
   OR 
   (     the US has the bomb 
     AND Japan has no regions with both a working factory and non-zero population
     AND at the end of the turn the Japanese VPs is below 7
     AND Japan at war with Russia
   )
 THEN
   Japan surrenders.
French surrender: surrender can now occur if Southern France is German controlled, but in this case Vichy will not be established: non-European French regions that typically become Vichy would remain WA controlled.

Artillery targeting: changed for the Range 2 portion of combat (the second time that the artillery fires, after the first fire at Range 3). Now, the target selection at Range 2 is unconstrained random, rather than artillery targeting artillery first. Range 3 targeting is unchanged (at Range 3 an artillery unit will still select an available artillery target first).

CAG counter strikes: counter strikes are modified, so that the counterstrike may be aborted if an overwhelming number of air units defend the counterstrike region. This modification prevents a gamey tactic of baiting counterstrikes.

  • when the cstrike is "organized", the quantity of cstrike air units (all types of air) is counted, call it ca (cstriking air)
  • the quantity of defending (active player) fighter and CAG units in the cstrike target region is counted, call it da (defending air)
  • the "observed" quantity of defending air is computed as the sum of da rolls of die(3) plus one, divided by two, rounded down. That is, oda = floor((1 + sum_over_da(die(3)))/2).
  • the counterstrike is aborted if oda>ca.
  • if the counterstrike is aborted, then all of the defending air in the cstrike zone is marked as "cannot undo move", so that a player cannot simply load up the air, prevent the cstrike, then undo the move and use the air some other way.
The die rolls give some uncertainty as to whether the cstrike will occur. The range of the "observed" quantity of defending air will be 1/2*da<= oda <= 3/2*da, but it is not uniformly distributed. The larger da is the "tighter" the distribution is in relative terms.

Damaged units to damaged factories: damaged units will now be able to queue for repair in damaged factories, rather than being destroyed if they can’t trace to an operational factory.

Bombardment attacks and cumulative suppression: bombardment attacks will no longer benefit from prior suppression (i.e. a bombardment will not receive the bonus for already suppressed units). Allowing bombardment to benefit from suppression had the effect of allowing suppression to “compound” (like compound interest) and grow exponentially, so twice the number of bomdardments was more than twice as good.

Bombardment attacks and evasion modifiers: when there is an evasion adjustment (e.g. evasion is reduced by 1 if the targeted unit is unsupplied), then bombardment attacks (suppression fire) have an additional modifier added to the die roll. This roll modifier is -3 times the evasion adjustment.
For example, if a unit is unsupplied then evasion is reduced by 1. In addition, if the fire is bombardment then the modifier of ( 3)×( 1)=+3 would be applied. This is doubled (as normal for bombardment), so that +6 is added to the roll result.
This change allows all of the typical evasion based modifiers to have a more reasonable impact in the case of bombardment attack.

Naval bombardment penalty with no land units: when there are no land units in support of naval bombardment, the bombard roll penalty is now 4 (was 5).

Unsupplied op-fire: op-fire now suffers a target evasion penalty (evasion increase) if the op-firing unit is unsupplied and there is no supply available for the op-firing unit. Note that this checks for supply availability, but does not consume supply.

Combined arms: militia no longer counts as an infantry class unit for combined arms, and airborne now will count as an infantry class unit for combined arms.


3. Features
Note: Mod-ability features are listed separately.

View Mode: Added a read-only mode for loading files, so that a player may load a file of any player’s turn, even the opponent’s. When loaded in View Mode, the game cannot be played and the file cannot be resaved. When view mode is enabled, the loader will prompt for a player password and load the game as the player with the matching password, with appropriate FOW visibility. If multiple Players have the same password (e.g. Germany and Japan), one can click “No” to loading Germany and will then be prompted for Japan. If the player uses an empty password (“”) then the game will load as Player “Neutral”, which allows view of only those regions visible to both sides.

Unit Stacking: differentiation of displayed units in non-movement phases has been improved, so that for example one may distinguish repaired versus damaged infrastructure when viewed in the production phase.

Resource movement: resource movement in production phase improved, so that it is less likely that unused resources will sit in a major factory region until they are eliminated when production is complete. It is now more likely that unused resources will end up in a factory+resource region where they can be stored until next turn.

Retreats: retreat decisions have been improved by taking into consideration the presence of friendly factories and population in nearby regions. This should only be noticeable when retreating from a region with no functional rail.

Region Info Screen: this screen now includes a "TOTAL" row at the bottom of each column, which is the sum of everything displayed.


4. Bug fixes
Airfield attack: the “airfield attack” defense value of 15 will no longer be asserted for land-to-air fire.

Air unit retreat to factory: fixed air unit flight based retreat to factory, so that air units must fly to a land zone before tracing to factory. Flying to a sea zone and then tracing is now precluded.

Damaged CAG trace to factory: Damaged CAGs attached to a carrier will no longer be able to trace an infinite distance, they will be limited to factories within 20 MPs, similar to naval units.

Damaged units teleporting to factories: Units could previously trace to any friendly factory (i.e. of a non-hostile nation) then teleport to the factory of the unit’s nationality with the most available production, even if the traced factory was surrounded. Now, a unit can trace to any friendly factory. If that factory is a port, the unit may “teleport” to any port-factory of the unit’s nation within 18MPs. If the unit cannot trace to the unit’s nation, or to a port for shipment to the unit’s nation, then the unit will be stuck in the friendly nation for repair at that location. E.g. Soviet units damaged in an isolated East Poland will be stuck in East Poland for repair, instead of teleporting to Moscow.

Op-fire from Saudi-Arabia: the Mandab Straight will now behave as a straight from Saudi Arabia, so that artillery in Saudi Arabia will now op-fire on naval traffic through the straight.

Naval port-to-port: A naval unit doing a port-to-port move, which is stopped in transit by FOW revelation, may continue its move to a port that is in port-to-port range. Previously the unit would be stuck where it stopped.

Infantry damaged as dropped airborne: Infantry that move via heavy bomber transport and are subsequently forced to retreat in the enemy player’s turn will no longer be damaged as though they were dropped airborne units forced to retreat.

Fuel cost: Fixed a bug that sometimes allowed an armor unit to move 2 regions and expend only 1 supply.

SPs for air in range of New Zealand: there was a bug which prevented the removal of this bonus when Victoria was captured, which has been fixed.

Memory bugs: a couple of memory corruption bugs were fixed, which should hopefully eliminate some sources of instability.

File interface: files will now reliably sort in order.


5. Modability
Note: for more details and how to use mod-ability features, peruse the data files. An attempt was made to thoroughly comment each feature. Many of these modability features have been used in making rule changes or the Global Glory scenario.

Partition agreement: all units from Belorussia move to East Poland, all units in Velikye move to Baltic States (previously a fixed number would move, inadequate if more units were placed in these regions than were in the baseline scenarios).

Political events:

  • Additional modifiers for political event probabilities.
  • Configurable whether an event is blocked by a previous event.
  • Events can be allowed to occur more than once.
  • Fixed some surrender bugs for mod-able political events.
  • Event can change amount of resource gift.
  • Events can be dependent on state of a gift, or the date, or a Player’s VPs.

Air penalty at max range: the ability to add a firing and fired-at penalty at max range is added.

Evasion modifier adjustments for suppression: the ability to add an attack roll modifier based on the evasion adjustments of the target is added.

Air move over narrows: mod-ability option allowing air movement over narrows (e.g. 1MP from West France to England).

Research limits after WS+2: the limit is now modable (was hardcoded at limit=tech_level).

Zero-pop factory regions: ability to configure that zero-population regions cannot do research.


6. AI
Minor AI improvements:

  • WA AI will not attack neutral units at sea until the USA is at war.
  • AI will no longer move into sea zones with allied units (bug fix).
  • The Russian AI may move units into East Poland under some circumstances.



*** edit *** corrected description of the French surrender rule change. The rule change impacts Southern France, not Eastern France. This is incorrectly described in the patch description file.

< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 1/27/2008 6:00:20 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/17/2007 1:47:39 PM   
kondor


Posts: 714
Joined: 5/27/2004
From: Croatia
Status: offline
I see that A-bomb rule is fused in.
And view mode sounds great...
Great work guys!

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 2
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/17/2007 4:48:00 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
Great GG scenario included.
Looking forward to its realese.
Good job BRian.

(in reply to kondor)
Post #: 3
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/18/2007 12:32:40 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
Any bug/issue reports on the game engine itself would best be reported on this thread.

FYI, I put a description of Global Glory on the following thread, discussion of the scenario can go there:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1617909

For the record, Forwarn45 reported a long standing problem with air targeting of naval units. This exists prior to 1.020 (probably all the way back to 1.000). Apparently air doesn't pick unique naval targets, frequently causing air to not find any target if its selected target has already been destroyed by a previous firing air unit.


< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 11/19/2007 1:52:30 AM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 4
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/18/2007 12:45:14 AM   
MrQuiet

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

FYI, I put a description of Global Glory on the following thread:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1617909

Any bug/issue reports on the game engine itself would best be reported on this thread.

For the record, Forwarn45 reported a long standing problem with air targeting of naval units. This exists prior to 1.020 (probably all the way back to 1.000). Apparently air doesn't pick unique naval targets, frequently causing air to not find any target if its selected target has already been destroyed by a previous firing air unit.



That definately goes back to 1.000. I noticed it right away (very noticeable when cags do not fire because there target was destroyed by another cag). So I thought maybe it was intended to keep air from being to powerful?
(by the way I have never noticed it happening in a pearl harbor surprise attack, i.e. they always choose a seperate target in that attack)

THanks for all your time and effort on the new patch.
Maybe we should get a mini tourny going on Global Glory to get you some feedback

-MrQ

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 5
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/19/2007 2:01:08 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet
quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
For the record, Forwarn45 reported a long standing problem with air targeting of naval units. This exists prior to 1.020 (probably all the way back to 1.000). Apparently air doesn't pick unique naval targets, frequently causing air to not find any target if its selected target has already been destroyed by a previous firing air unit.


That definately goes back to 1.000.


I remember back in beta that Jan changed air so that it would not pick unique land targets. The motivation was based on the suppression mechanic, you were most likely to damage a unit if you had multiple shots on a single unit rather than distributed. My guess is that this accidentally translated to the naval attack case.

I'd pose the question to everybody, should it be changed? IMO it should be, unless we like weakened air against fleets for some reason. But then personally I'd rather accomplish that with increased AA if it were desirable.

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 6
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/19/2007 2:07:59 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
I've added a couple things to the above list since I first posted, which I forgot to put in the readme that will come with the patch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
3. Features
Region Info Screen: this screen now includes a "TOTAL" row at the bottom of each column, which is the sum of everything displayed.

4. Bug fixes
File interface: files will now reliably sort in order.


(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 7
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/19/2007 4:09:33 AM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
I'd prefer port attacks to work like at-sea attacks do (I think). Air units consider the "weight" of the naval target and attack accordingly - doubling up on high profile units (not transports) as appropriate.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 8
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/20/2007 11:01:58 AM   
cgarmfeldt

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
Nice to see the game getting improved! :) 

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 9
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/20/2007 10:46:50 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45
I'd prefer port attacks to work like at-sea attacks do (I think). Air units consider the "weight" of the naval target and attack accordingly - doubling up on high profile units (not transports) as appropriate.


That only applies to CAGs, if I'm not mistaken.

I think that port and at-sea attacks are treated the same as each other. However, CAGs clearly target differently from other air units and may not have the same problems. Definitely, non-CAG units can have the problem of "over targeting" some naval units instead of finding unique targets, whether the attack is at-sea or in-port.

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 10
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/20/2007 11:31:27 PM   
cgarmfeldt

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
Ignore report - appearently the patch installed into both directories, and it works fine if run from the original directory.

< Message edited by cgarmfeldt -- 11/20/2007 11:35:21 PM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 11
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 11/21/2007 4:25:05 AM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45
I'd prefer port attacks to work like at-sea attacks do (I think). Air units consider the "weight" of the naval target and attack accordingly - doubling up on high profile units (not transports) as appropriate.


That only applies to CAGs, if I'm not mistaken.

I think that port and at-sea attacks are treated the same as each other. However, CAGs clearly target differently from other air units and may not have the same problems. Definitely, non-CAG units can have the problem of "over targeting" some naval units instead of finding unique targets, whether the attack is at-sea or in-port.


You're right! I took a look at the rules and it confirms the "weight" rule applies to CAG's. Here is the rule:
8.7.3 CARIER Air Naval attack Targeting and CounterStrikes
Carrier aircraft were trained to attack enemy aircraft carriers as the first priority. When Carrier Air
units attack Naval units, target selection will be weighted as follows (they will also double up on
Carrier Fleets just as Air units double up on Artillery):
Carrier Fleet 40
Heavy Fleet 4
Light Fleet 2
Transport Fleet 1
Submarine Fleet 1

But the last situation where I noticed air units not all attacking was an all-CAG against a port. It looked like the air decided to double (or was it triple?) up against a transport - and I think it has occurred in other cases. It doesn't ever seem to occur in the Pearl Harbor attack, though, as MrQ notes. When you get the chance, maybe you could take a look at whether the port attack mechanism is different. Maybe I'll take another look at the rules as well. (It couldn't hurt).

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 12
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/15/2007 7:16:55 AM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
I don't know if this has been an issue with previous versions, but lately I've been noticing that subs somtimes don't use up a torpedo after an attack. 

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 13
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/15/2007 3:42:19 PM   
MrQuiet

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 4/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron

I don't know if this has been an issue with previous versions, but lately I've been noticing that subs somtimes don't use up a torpedo after an attack. 



I have definately seen that in 1.011 but I have only ever noticed it when the German sub attacks on the first move.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 14
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/21/2007 5:10:59 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline
I've been seeing infantry that have been damaged in TLC appearing in the US for repair. It's probably due to the new factory tracing, but I don't like it when this happens, it just feels entirely wrong. 

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 15
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/22/2007 6:14:19 AM   
Lucky1

 

Posts: 383
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
Is there a glitch in the seazones for eastern / central med? I cant move my ships between the except VIA the seazone off of Greece....

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 16
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/22/2007 7:18:53 AM   
Lucky1

 

Posts: 383
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
Sigh. I thought I was in the UV 2.0 section when I made the above post.... It refers to the UV 2.o mod.

(in reply to Lucky1)
Post #: 17
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/30/2007 6:25:41 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I don't know if this has been an issue with previous versions, but lately I've been noticing that subs somtimes don't use up a torpedo after an attack. 


I think it essentially works, there is just a subtlety in how it works. I recall this coming up in beta, it relates to resupplying. Recall that all units can resupply from a territory in which they started the turn or adjacent. The sub can move, fire, then immediately (and in some cases automatically) resupply from the region where it started (or adjacent). When the resupply is automatic, it can look like it didn't expend torps to fire. But if you count supplies in the starting and adjacent regions you should notice one supply has been expended.

This is actually a handy way to keep subs at sea longer.

Let me know if you observe something that isn't explained as above.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 18
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/30/2007 6:29:25 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I've been seeing infantry that have been damaged in TLC appearing in the US for repair. It's probably due to the new factory tracing, but I don't like it when this happens, it just feels entirely wrong. 


Can I assume that TLC was captured by the Germans in the case you mention? Where do you think the infantry should end up, France?

It could be related to the changes I made. Maybe I need to look at the deemphasis assigned to frozen regions, it does seem strange that it went to the USA.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 19
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 12:31:03 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I've been seeing infantry that have been damaged in TLC appearing in the US for repair. It's probably due to the new factory tracing, but I don't like it when this happens, it just feels entirely wrong. 


Can I assume that TLC was captured by the Germans in the case you mention? Where do you think the infantry should end up, France?

It could be related to the changes I made. Maybe I need to look at the deemphasis assigned to frozen regions, it does seem strange that it went to the USA.


After a long time being unable to get AWD working on my home PC, (the PC died, so I reformatted the HD, but then AWD just didn't work until I spent two days monkeying with drivers), I finally have it back as of yesterday. I'm looking at some of these issues.

Jesse, what is the objection to the way it worked? That the unit went to the frozen USA?

I think that the reason this was introduced in this patch is one of the bug fixes. Recall that previously Russian units damaged in the opening Barbarosa were unable to trace to factories and were destroyed. This was because they were prohibited to trace to frozen regions. Now that prohibition is removed. Russia is fixed, but sometimes WA units can now go to frozen USA.

My current plan is to put in a bias against damaged units going to a frozen region for repair.


< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 12/31/2007 12:34:30 PM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 20
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 5:26:57 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I don't know if this has been an issue with previous versions, but lately I've been noticing that subs somtimes don't use up a torpedo after an attack.


I think it essentially works, there is just a subtlety in how it works. I recall this coming up in beta, it relates to resupplying. Recall that all units can resupply from a territory in which they started the turn or adjacent. The sub can move, fire, then immediately (and in some cases automatically) resupply from the region where it started (or adjacent). When the resupply is automatic, it can look like it didn't expend torps to fire. But if you count supplies in the starting and adjacent regions you should notice one supply has been expended.

This is actually a handy way to keep subs at sea longer.

Let me know if you observe something that isn't explained as above.


Yes, it's a handy way to get keep subs topped off after their first shot. Now that I know what's behind the cause, I can finesse my supply movement to take advantage of this in the future.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 21
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 5:49:53 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I've been seeing infantry that have been damaged in TLC appearing in the US for repair. It's probably due to the new factory tracing, but I don't like it when this happens, it just feels entirely wrong.


Can I assume that TLC was captured by the Germans in the case you mention? Where do you think the infantry should end up, France?

It could be related to the changes I made. Maybe I need to look at the deemphasis assigned to frozen regions, it does seem strange that it went to the USA.


Yes, Ideally France. In UV2.0, France is not frozen, so it's not about frozen regions in this case. Perhaps since I got the French factories full of qued units, the damaged TLC infantry is just looking for the most empty factory que. In the few cases I saw it happening, the TLC infantry ended up in North Central USA because obviously no ships are in the que there. I'm not sure where a damaged TLC infantry would go in the other scenarios after the new tracing rule you added, but perhaps they go to France since it's que is mostly empty. If it's just a small oddity of UV2.0 because the French que is full, I'll live with it.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 22
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 7:00:13 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2166
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
I've been seeing infantry that have been damaged in TLC appearing in the US for repair. It's probably due to the new factory tracing, but I don't like it when this happens, it just feels entirely wrong.


Can I assume that TLC was captured by the Germans in the case you mention? Where do you think the infantry should end up, France?

It could be related to the changes I made. Maybe I need to look at the deemphasis assigned to frozen regions, it does seem strange that it went to the USA.


After a long time being unable to get AWD working on my home PC, (the PC died, so I reformatted the HD, but then AWD just didn't work until I spent two days monkeying with drivers), I finally have it back as of yesterday. I'm looking at some of these issues.

Jesse, what is the objection to the way it worked? That the unit went to the frozen USA?

I think that the reason this was introduced in this patch is one of the bug fixes. Recall that previously Russian units damaged in the opening Barbarosa were unable to trace to factories and were destroyed. This was because they were prohibited to trace to frozen regions. Now that prohibition is removed. Russia is fixed, but sometimes WA units can now go to frozen USA.

My current plan is to put in a bias against damaged units going to a frozen region for repair.


My objection is simply that it doesn't feel right. To be more accurate, it's simply not realistic that surviving TLC infantry would not merge with the French army, and would instead go to neutral America for reinforcement before returning to the fight. Politically, I don't think the USA would have allowed this. Isolation from European wars was the order of the day.

If you change the bias my new worry would be that any damaged TLC infantry would then end up in Britain. Again that would be a bad thing because it would give Britain free manpower plus extra Inf. The fall of France/Poland has no such effect so why should TLC? A simple solution would be to remove all TLC infantry and replace them with about 7 militia. I'll have to consider that for a future UV update. In the meantime I'd like to hear your ideas.

What about going back to leaving TLC neutral during an attack instead of it immediately turning Allied? If I remember, for TLC an exception was made because the Japs could attack the DEI without penalty. Maybe you could change things so that TLC remains neutral during conquest and if the Japs attacked the DEI the same turn it would unfreeze the USA.

_____________________________

Jesse LeBreton, AKA Lebatron
Development team- GG's WAW A World Divided

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 23
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 9:10:18 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
My objection is simply that it doesn't feel right. To be more accurate, it's simply not realistic that surviving TLC infantry would not merge with the French army, and would instead go to neutral America for reinforcement before returning to the fight. Politically, I don't think the USA would have allowed this. Isolation from European wars was the order of the day.

If you change the bias my new worry would be that any damaged TLC infantry would then end up in Britain. Again that would be a bad thing because it would give Britain free manpower plus extra Inf. The fall of France/Poland has no such effect so why should TLC? A simple solution would be to remove all TLC infantry and replace them with about 7 militia. I'll have to consider that for a future UV update. In the meantime I'd like to hear your ideas.

What about going back to leaving TLC neutral during an attack instead of it immediately turning Allied? If I remember, for TLC an exception was made because the Japs could attack the DEI without penalty. Maybe you could change things so that TLC remains neutral during conquest and if the Japs attacked the DEI the same turn it would unfreeze the USA.


Damaged units use a lot of things in the decision where to go. The strongest is that they try to stay with their nationality. Next is the factory queue with the most available production (take factory production, subtract all non-paused units in production).

It has always been the case that TLC units will very likely go to England, so far as I can see they almost always would have done so before the bug-fix to allow tracing to frozen factories.

I think that biasing against tracing to frozen makes the most sense. The only other thing that could make sense is a small bias against moving over the sea if it can't find its own nationality, but if you have the French factories full then this won't help anyway.

IMO, it works well enough and is not in need of improvement (this is my reluctance to risk change). I have always avoided the TLC units going to England by being darned sure I was destroying them instead of just damaging them. I see that as a perfectly acceptable situation. The only time the Germans cannot destroy all of TLC in my experience is an early (Fall '39) attack.

I don't remember exactly why TLC turns WA right away, I think it had to do with the need for some special processing for the DEI (there was some gaminess to get around there, since you don't want them to turn German if the WA attack TLC). I don't want to reopen that can of worms.

(in reply to Lebatron)
Post #: 24
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 12/31/2007 9:41:17 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Forwarn45 reported a long standing problem with air targeting of naval units. This exists prior to 1.020 (probably all the way back to 1.000). Apparently air doesn't pick unique naval targets, frequently causing air to not find any target if its selected target has already been destroyed by a previous firing air unit.


I've checked the code. Indeed, the non-CAG-air vs naval targeting is the exact same code as air vs land. CAGs (I think) should do OK against naval, but other air units don't look for unique targets. It looks like this was unintentional, as a change for land targets was applied for naval targets.

Is it worth improving?

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 25
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 1/1/2008 5:31:04 PM   
Marshall Art

 

Posts: 566
Joined: 8/6/2005
Status: offline
With the 1.020 patch I became familiar with a new window - see below.

First I had this appear 1-2 times during play, particularly when trying to end a turn of a PBEM.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marshall Art -- 1/1/2008 5:32:27 PM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 26
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 1/1/2008 5:33:08 PM   
Marshall Art

 

Posts: 566
Joined: 8/6/2005
Status: offline
When I tried to load a saved game the game crashed each time I hit the bring up saved games list button, No way to start a saved game...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marshall Art -- 1/1/2008 5:35:13 PM >

(in reply to Marshall Art)
Post #: 27
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 1/1/2008 5:37:15 PM   
Marshall Art

 

Posts: 566
Joined: 8/6/2005
Status: offline
Note that if I check the PBEM box at the bottom right, I can indeed load PBEM saves, just not human vs. AI games....

Any idea what this is about? I never had any issues like that before. The game is a regular install (CD from matrix) upgraded to 1.008, 1.010, 1.011 and finally to 1.020 beta. Never used mods before.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Marshall Art -- 1/1/2008 5:38:24 PM >

(in reply to Marshall Art)
Post #: 28
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 1/1/2008 6:04:12 PM   
GKar


Posts: 617
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Forwarn45 reported a long standing problem with air targeting of naval units. This exists prior to 1.020 (probably all the way back to 1.000). Apparently air doesn't pick unique naval targets, frequently causing air to not find any target if its selected target has already been destroyed by a previous firing air unit.


I've checked the code. Indeed, the non-CAG-air vs naval targeting is the exact same code as air vs land. CAGs (I think) should do OK against naval, but other air units don't look for unique targets. It looks like this was unintentional, as a change for land targets was applied for naval targets.

Is it worth improving?


IMHO this is well worth improving. And are you sure that cags always use unique targets? I don't have an example at hand, but I think they don't.

To make a long story short, I think that no air units should lose their opportunity to fire at a naval target - be it at sea or in harbor - just because "their" target was destroyed already. They should determine a valid target right before shooting and thus taking into account which enemy units have been destroyed already.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 29
RE: Beta Patch v1.020 - 1/1/2008 7:14:15 PM   
xianing

 

Posts: 347
Joined: 9/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Art

Note that if I check the PBEM box at the bottom right, I can indeed load PBEM saves, just not human vs. AI games....

Any idea what this is about? I never had any issues like that before. The game is a regular install (CD from matrix) upgraded to 1.008, 1.010, 1.011 and finally to 1.020 beta. Never used mods before.







I've seen the same problem. All you have to do is to delete all the old savefiles, then it will work well.


< Message edited by xianing -- 1/1/2008 7:18:50 PM >

(in reply to Marshall Art)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> Limited Public Beta Feedback >> Beta Patch v1.020 Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

3.500