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South American War scenario - 12/30/2007 9:14:50 PM   
proulerDCS


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline 		Hello all,

I have finished my South American War scenario, ready to download at www.advancedtactics.org

The scenario covers a hypothetical conflict between USA and allies vs Communist countries in South America in 2012.
It starts as a regional war between USA and Venezuela, but it will quickly turn into a continental war involving all countries.

Scenario with huge production (USA and Brazil)






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Post #: 1
RE: South American War scenario - 12/30/2007 11:09:01 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Great scenario, and very interesting idea. However, I would like to make some comments.
1-Latin America has very weak weapons industry. We have no industry able to make advanced combat aircraft or tanks (Brazil has technology to make both but it would take many years for us to have operational factories producing them). Brazil and Argentina are able to make transport aircraft, attack aircraft (like the AMX), armored cars and MRLS. Bolivia, Peru and Colombia are even less developed. So, in such an event we would rely on imported equipment, it´s likely that China and Russia would be willing to sell us them, but I have some doubt to what extent these weapons would actually reach our countries because the USN would be able to blockade any ship from reaching Brazil or Venezuela. So I think you could develop some way to introduce imported equipment in the scenario and restrict advanced weapons production by South American countries.
2-You changed the graphics but the units still have a WWII flavor that maybe could be changed. Custom aircraft would be wonderful too. Give SU-35´s, Mig-29´s and maybe Tu-22´s to Venezuela and F-22, F-16 and F-18 to USA side. Also put support aircraft for both sides (A-10 to USA, Tucanos and AMX to Brazil)
3-Venezuela and Colombia should start with some aicraft. Venezuela has F-16´s (they won´t be operational by 2012) and SU-35. All sides have lots of support aircraft, like the Brazilian Tucano, and transport aircraft too.
4-It´s easy to the USA to wipe out the forces of all combined Latin American countries unless their troops are overextended, but in this case a mobilization is not impossible, so maybe, the US intervention could be simulated by giving a few highly advanced units to the USA side and reinforcements could be brought with time.
-Don´t take my words as criticism. I think this scenario is very good and has the potential to be one of the best AT scenarios created, but some improvement is needed.

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 2
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 12:10:37 AM   
proulerDCS


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Bombur,

thank you for your comments.

I know the scenario argument isn't 100% realistic, can we imagine the latin americans in a mayor conflict with USA? The war will end the first year.
I decide to do a more balanced war, with a appropiate USA intervention.

Every country in the scenario(excep USA)has the production level according to the actual GDP, So Brazil has 4 times the production of Argentina etc.

There are some events in the scenario to give real reinforcements to each country (tanks and airplanes only to USA and Brazil, reinforcements according to the real population of each country, etc) but they are at "no check" mode. Anybody can turn on the reinforcements and supply events and dissable the production (ProdMod=0 for universals).

I can make another version with this feature if you think its improve the scenario, but I love the production feature in AT.

I will make another version with custom units, but maybe I will need help from more people.

Post data: sorry if my english level isn't good. I am improving it.




(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 3
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 12:48:05 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Is there a variant with all SA countries vs eachother without USA? Would make for a good Diplomacy game. Major players could be Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Peru and Venezuela. Rest being minors.

Make that variant if you can. Maybe even include Central America.


< Message edited by marcusm -- 12/31/2007 12:49:55 AM >

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 4
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 1:02:55 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: proulerDCS

Hello Bombur,

thank you for your comments.

I know the scenario argument isn't 100% realistic, can we imagine the latin americans in a mayor conflict with USA? The war will end the first year.
I decide to do a more balanced war, with a appropiate USA intervention.

Every country in the scenario(excep USA)has the production level according to the actual GDP, So Brazil has 4 times the production of Argentina etc.

There are some events in the scenario to give real reinforcements to each country (tanks and airplanes only to USA and Brazil, reinforcements according to the real population of each country, etc) but they are at "no check" mode. Anybody can turn on the reinforcements and supply events and dissable the production (ProdMod=0 for universals).

I can make another version with this feature if you think its improve the scenario, but I love the production feature in AT.

I will make another version with custom units, but maybe I will need help from more people.

Post data: sorry if my english level isn't good. I am improving it.




-I´m btw, playing the scenario as SAS and taking a beating from the evil imperialists....great scenario....well, my suggestions were intended to create a more realistic mod. To accomplish this it would be reasonable to limit production from both sides, to limit USA reinforcements and to make Brazil and other SA countries to rely on imports instead of own production. This scenario is no doubt playable "as is" and should be approved by Vic, I think....an idea would be to simulate a war involving the SA countries only with limited US intervention (Navy, some troops and sell of equipment to SA allieds). Of course this would demand a lot of work, but the result would be simply wonderful...it would be the "scenario of the year". I agree with you that the production feature is great, but idea would be to limit what developing countries could produce (of couse they could research it, we also could make some assumption as Brazil building SU-35´s under license for instance, a few years ago we had such an offer-Brazil has a pretty developed air industry but it´s civilian oriented and relies on western countries for avionics and engines). You also could consider that we will reactivate our MBT program and even the nuclear SS program.

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 5
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 12:06:44 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		approved it.

but Dont forget to set initial HQs and production for towns.

Looks nice :)

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 6
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 1:28:43 PM   
proulerDCS


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline 		I forget to comment the best mode to play the game is in normal AI.

I have changed the AI to make it more aggressive.
-Lowered the trench levels, the AI attacks more
-More stackpts in units
-Focus on destroying units=2

What do you think about the combat results of the scenario?



(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 7
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 9:03:17 PM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1540
Joined: 2/17/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
Dont forget to set initial HQs and production for towns.


You’ve made this comment in another thread. To help scenario editors and authors from missing important edits, it would be nice if the tutorials contained check lists of the required and optional data elements that need to be adjusted. Think it would really help to cut down on the bugs and rework needed to fix posted scenarios.

Regards, RhinoBones

(in reply to Vic)
Post #: 8
RE: South American War scenario - 12/31/2007 9:36:24 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic
Dont forget to set initial HQs and production for towns.


You’ve made this comment in another thread. To help scenario editors and authors from missing important edits, it would be nice if the tutorials contained check lists of the required and optional data elements that need to be adjusted. Think it would really help to cut down on the bugs and rework needed to fix posted scenarios.

Regards, RhinoBones




RhinoBones,

You know, I was going to incorporate a checklist into the expanded scenario 101 write-up, and I think I just never got around to it. I wasn't sure anyone actually used the the expanded version on Vics website, if it actually got used, I'd probably do the same with the next set of tutorials and include a checklist.

Rick

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 9
RE: South American War scenario - 1/1/2008 6:13:00 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Here's a suggested outline for a more 'realistic' scenario setting:

1. The year is 2010.  The USA is in civil turmoil as a result of several factors. (a) The assassination of both the new (Female?) President and the new (Black?) Vice President in the same attack.  (b) The spiralling cost of oil following the overly hasty pull out of US forces and the subsequent fall of the govt in Iraq to the Iranian-back Shia insurgency, and ensuing serious unrest in Saudi. (c) Economic crises at home which started with the deficit and with sub-prime problems in 2007 and then grew from there.

2. Cuba under her new President, Raul Castro, and Venezula under Chavez (the 'V-C' Alliance) have spotted the opportunity to realize Bolivar's dream of a united S America, with the Panama Canal, oil and other extensive regional natural resources as the prize.  Backed financially and militarily by the Russia of Prime Minister Putin (his new position gives him the same powers he had as President) Cuba and Venzuela are poised to intervene in the affairs of several regional states.  Russian air force units are reported to be 'training' on Venezualan territory.  Bolivia's leftist government is also sympathetic, while other states in the region are looking to the USA for support/protection.

3.  China has also been increasingly active in this region over the last few years and has extensive investments and a military training programme in place in Colombia and Ecquador.  Chinese military advisors are training non-aligned regional armies that fear both V-C Alliance ambitions as well as US dominance.  The new Chinese blue water navy is on exercises along the Pacific coast of S America while part of the US Pacific Fleet is paying a visit to the Panama canal zone.

4.  On June 1, 2010 Cuba makes the first move, landing a party of troops in Kingston Jamaica to 'restore democracy' following unrest there.  Cuba has a long standing relationship with the Jamaican political opposition party, the PNP.  The Port of Kingston is also a major containerised cargo transhipment facility which serves the Panama Canal, one of top 20 in the world.  Any interruption of the flow of cargo via Kingston will have an impact on the operations of the canal itself.  In spite of its domestic problems, the USA prepares to respond this flagrant attempt to shift the regional balance of power.

etc. etc....

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 10
RE: South American War scenario - 1/1/2008 9:16:50 PM   
Delyn Locksmiths


Posts: 393
Joined: 12/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4

Here's a suggested outline for a more 'realistic' scenario setting:

1. The year is 2010.  The USA is in civil turmoil as a result of several factors. (a) The assassination of both the new (Female?) President and the new (Black?) Vice President in the same attack.  (b) The spiralling cost of oil following the overly hasty pull out of US forces and the subsequent fall of the govt in Iraq to the Iranian-back Shia insurgency, and ensuing serious unrest in Saudi. (c) Economic crises at home which started with the deficit and with sub-prime problems in 2007 and then grew from there.

2. Cuba under her new President, Raul Castro, and Venezula under Chavez (the 'V-C' Alliance) have spotted the opportunity to realize Bolivar's dream of a united S America, with the Panama Canal, oil and other extensive regional natural resources as the prize.  Backed financially and militarily by the Russia of Prime Minister Putin (his new position gives him the same powers he had as President) Cuba and Venzuela are poised to intervene in the affairs of several regional states.  Russian air force units are reported to be 'training' on Venezualan territory.  Bolivia's leftist government is also sympathetic, while other states in the region are looking to the USA for support/protection.

3.  China has also been increasingly active in this region over the last few years and has extensive investments and a military training programme in place in Colombia and Ecquador.  Chinese military advisors are training non-aligned regional armies that fear both V-C Alliance ambitions as well as US dominance.  The new Chinese blue water navy is on exercises along the Pacific coast of S America while part of the US Pacific Fleet is paying a visit to the Panama canal zone.

4.  On June 1, 2010 Cuba makes the first move, landing a party of troops in Kingston Jamaica to 'restore democracy' following unrest there.  Cuba has a long standing relationship with the Jamaican political opposition party, the PNP.  The Port of Kingston is also a major containerised cargo transhipment facility which serves the Panama Canal, one of top 20 in the world.  Any interruption of the flow of cargo via Kingston will have an impact on the operations of the canal itself.  In spite of its domestic problems, the USA prepares to respond this flagrant attempt to shift the regional balance of power.

etc. etc....


Nice ideas, but it does make me laugh that everybody still thinks Russia would support revolutionary governments.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 11
RE: South American War scenario - 1/1/2008 10:15:33 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I'm not that ignorant about Russia :)

I don't think Venezuela is a revolutionary state actually - the last time I checked it was a vibrant democracy with a progressive president who favours the poor.

The scenario ideas are about geopolitics.  Mr. Putin does want to restore Russia's place as a leading Power in the US/China/Russia equation, does he not?  Oil is a factor in this and a key source of funding for Russia's growth today, along with natural gas.  Control of oil reserves is the main driver behind international events today.  Chavez is a natural enemy of the USA at present and he sits on a fair amount of oil himself.  Is it crazy to discuss a 'scenario' in which Russia aids an oil rich enemy of the US or China at a time of US weakness and Chinese oil scarcity?  Surely not...

Anyway, it's only a game and in wargaming it makes sense to play out every conceivable scenario. 

(in reply to Delyn Locksmiths)
Post #: 12
RE: South American War scenario - 1/1/2008 11:55:37 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I will agree with redmarkus and also with Delyn. On one hand, Chavez is hardly a communist, despite radical rhetoric. Venezuela is still a mixed economy and a democracy with opposition parties and competitive elections. I agree with Delyn that Russia has no ideological reason to support revolutionary states, however, there are lots of strategic reasons to fund enemies of USA. China, being more dependent on USA trade, would have less reasons to get herself involved in such a conflict, unless Chinese national interests (like control of natural resources by Chinese companies) are in check. However, I think it´s very unlikely that Cuba would start a war in Caribe (even if she had full support from a resurgent Russia). Instead I would "start" the war with border conflicts between Venezuela and Colombia, and maybe a coup attempt in one of these places (with the involvement of the other side). If there was interest in changing the scenario, I would make it a "proxy war", with limited USA intervention and with events involving external powers (for instance, if USN decides to implement a full blockade, the the Russians could send weapons to Iraq of Afghan insurgents thus limiting USA reinforcements. If the USA bombs enemy cities the Russians cvould send a few Tu-22M (or a future version of this bomber) bombers to counter USN operations. I would also put the USA in a economic crisis to limit the prospects for US involmement. Big trouble in such an approach is that no side has the power to "win" a total war, althought Brazil is very hard to be defeated even by an alliance of South American powers.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 13
RE: South American War scenario - 1/5/2008 1:42:06 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		when Columbia or any other allied nation of the US joins the war is there a way to keep them using their own national counters instead of showing the US flag on the HQ counter? or the US counter color? Because in the editor Columbia has their own counter set as does each nation in the scenario. I guess what I'm saying is I would like each nation which is allied with the US to keep its own national identity but still be allied with America?

< Message edited by lion_of_judah -- 1/5/2008 1:48:08 PM >

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 14
RE: South American War scenario - 1/5/2008 5:42:21 PM   
proulerDCS


Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

when Columbia or any other allied nation of the US joins the war is there a way to keep them using their own national counters instead of showing the US flag on the HQ counter? or the US counter color? Because in the editor Columbia has their own counter set as does each nation in the scenario. I guess what I'm saying is I would like each nation which is allied with the US to keep its own national identity but still be allied with America?


Hello lion_of_judah

I'm going to make a second version of the scenario with allied independent counties for both sides. The USA direct intervention will be replaced by only supply support to the allies countries

I will also make a all againts all scenario variant.


(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 15
RE: South American War scenario - 1/5/2008 8:21:50 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lion_of_judah

when Columbia or any other allied nation of the US joins the war is there a way to keep them using their own national counters instead of showing the US flag on the HQ counter? or the US counter color? Because in the editor Columbia has their own counter set as does each nation in the scenario. I guess what I'm saying is I would like each nation which is allied with the US to keep its own national identity but still be allied with America?



I think it´s possible to do this in the regime/people editor.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 16
RE: South American War scenario - 1/5/2008 11:32:37 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		looking forward to playing that, but until then is it possible for this now or wait until the updated scn. comes out?

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 17
RE: South American War scenario - 1/6/2008 1:37:12 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		I would also like to see a version with all South American nations against eacother.
South American Diplomacy like. This is the game I think will be most fun to play. Except as Uruguay perhaps :D.



(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 18
RE: South American War scenario - 1/6/2008 6:35:17 AM   
Tattico

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/21/2007
Status: offline 		Hello proulerDCS and congrat for your nice scenario... I like it a lot!
Couple consideration for your next version:
1) Infantry gun and AT gun should be eliminated or at least changed to a more modern type of weapon like RPG's and Machine guns!
2) You should add helos to your scenario (attack and transport)
3) Try to give a more "modern" flavour to the scenario... having a Car with the symbol of an horse in the 21st century doesn't make too much sense... same thing for the sounds.
Of course this is a personal opinion... I'm looking forward to play the new version!!!!




< Message edited by Tattico -- 1/6/2008 6:37:12 AM >

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 19
RE: South American War scenario - 1/6/2008 9:33:41 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		How does one save the map for use in a new scenario?

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 20
RE: South American War scenario - 1/7/2008 7:24:58 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		does one have to make a new map for each scenario or can one use a map from another scenario, and how are the borders made? Thanks

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 21
RE: South American War scenario - 1/7/2008 10:08:35 AM   
Delyn Locksmiths


Posts: 393
Joined: 12/26/2007
Status: offline 		When you load the game up, choose edit. Delete all the units, and you have a blank map. Though some of the settings may be different to what you expect. e.g. if you used the Axis and Allies scenario to get a world map.

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 22
RE: South American War scenario - 1/7/2008 10:51:00 PM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		thanks, now for the border. Does that stay the same for each nation or does one have to redo this as well?

(in reply to Delyn Locksmiths)
Post #: 23
RE: South American War scenario - 1/8/2008 6:43:37 AM   
lion_of_judah


Posts: 2113
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		never mind figured this out

(in reply to lion_of_judah)
Post #: 24
RE: South American War scenario - 3/6/2008 7:51:51 PM   
jimi3


Posts: 151
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Any chance of modeling the current situation with Columbia, Venezuela, Ecuador and anyone else that might end up in the mess?

(in reply to proulerDCS)
Post #: 25
RE: South American War scenario - 9/23/2008 3:52:08 AM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		From today's Guardian online... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/23/russia.venezuela)

Vladimir Isachenkov, Associated Press The Guardian, Tuesday September 23 2008

A Russian navy squadron set off for Venezuela yesterday to take part in joint manoeuvres with the Latin American country, a Russian navy spokesman said.

Igor Dygalo said the nuclear-powered Peter the Great cruiser, accompanied by three other ships, set sail from the Russian Northern Fleet's base of Severomorsk. The ships will cover about 15,000 nautical miles and conduct the manoeuvres with the Venezuelan navy, he said.

The deployment comes as the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chávez, plans to visit Moscow this week. It will be his second trip to Russia in two months.

The Kremlin has moved to intensify relations with Venezuela, Cuba and other Latin American nations amid increasingly strained relations with Washington after last month's war with Georgia.

It has signed weapons contracts worth more than US$4bn with Venezuela since 2005 to supply fighter jets, helicopters, and 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 26
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