Forced Surrender

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> Forced Surrender

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Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 1:12:50 AM

fatfloyd

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

A rules quesion:

Is there any way to force a surrender in the game?.

I think in the board game if you took all the capitals they had to surrender.

Is this the case in the computer version?

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 1:35:39 AM

gwheelock

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline

I don't know if its FORCED or not; but if you take the national capitol the AI will surrender (unconditionally).

I remember something in another thread (not sure WHAT thread; though) where someone was complaining that
they had surrendered TO the AI because it took their capitol.

In the original game if a player could "collect no home nation MP" they were either exterminated permanently or
were required to surrender (depended on which option was being played).

This isn't QUITE the same as ALL capitols because of economic manipulation.
(you could force a surrender/death of a manipulating country by occupying all EXCEPT the national capitol
!IF! the national capitol's MP was less than the manipulation MP cost... you had to do it without taking
the national capitol; becuase occupying that CANCLED the manipulation. I think that this wierd case
only worked for a couple of countries.)

(in reply to fatfloyd)

Post #: 2

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 4:54:21 PM

megalomania2003

Posts: 55
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

Being forced to surrender if the national capital is taken is radically different from the EIA game.

(in reply to gwheelock)

Post #: 3

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 5:12:08 PM

DodgyDave

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline

well its harder with russia, as i tried them declaring war on me as england, i took st. petersburg to wipe out the fleet there, worked fine and then i was there like a year, before i stopped playing, because russia did nothing, they refused informal peace, so if having just the 1 capital still lost them their money, they had none from nation nor any trade, being at war with me, so i would guess they had tons of militia.

but i had uncontionalled normally on them, but changed it to conditionally, even tried informal a bunch of times, but Russia was determined to stay at war with me and then later prussia went to war with me for the second time! i hope they become a bit better at doing stuff with the first patch :)

(in reply to megalomania2003)

Post #: 4

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 7:23:00 PM

gwheelock

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline

The program doesn't seem to consider St. Pete as a Russian capitol - only Moscow counts.
Being stubborn & refusing surrender is actually one of the more historically accurate
actions the AI could take (remember in history Russia didn't surrender even after
Napoleon TOOK Moscow - and they won the war after his army foraged to death)

(in reply to DodgyDave)

Post #: 5

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 7:38:23 PM

DodgyDave

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
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according to the manual for this game, both count as capitals and they loss all money in eco phase, if just one is held, just like boardgame, are you now saying that is not working?? :(

(in reply to gwheelock)

Post #: 6

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 8:18:19 PM

ndrose

Posts: 612
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline

I can't say whether the game is denying Russia money when St Petersburg falls, but I have seen Russia surrender at that point.

Equally, I have often seen them fight on until Moscow goes, or is threatened, as well. Which I think is an instance of the AI behaving as it should: you never know how stubborn the Russians are going to be, and you have to decide how long you're prepared to spend with your army at the end of a supply line in winter....

Nathan Rose

(in reply to fatfloyd)

Post #: 7

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/12/2008 10:50:08 PM

DodgyDave

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
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actually i was there over a winter, from what i saw, my depot in st. petersburg worked just fine, i dont think the ice is currently blocking you, otherwise you are right

(in reply to ndrose)

Post #: 8

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 4:03:52 AM

iamspamus

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline

I don't agree. There is a difference in being stubborn and holding out and just not doing anything. I attacked the Turks as Russia. He had stacks all over and just sat there for over 9 months. I just killed one stack after another and took capitals. Didn't even try to cut off my supply. Crazy.

Jason

quote:

ORIGINAL: gwheelock

The program doesn't seem to consider St. Pete as a Russian capitol - only Moscow counts.
Being stubborn & refusing surrender is actually one of the more historically accurate
actions the AI could take (remember in history Russia didn't surrender even after
Napoleon TOOK Moscow - and they won the war after his army foraged to death)

(in reply to gwheelock)

Post #: 9

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 5:01:41 AM

iamspamus

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Cambridge, UK
Status: offline

This is a pretty big change from EIA. I learn this after taking all but 3 TU provincial capitals. I guess, I'll quit screwing around and take the capital. Hmmm.

Jason

quote:

ORIGINAL: fatfloyd

A rules quesion:

Is there any way to force a surrender in the game?.

I think in the board game if you took all the capitals they had to surrender.

Is this the case in the computer version?

Thanks

(in reply to fatfloyd)

Post #: 10

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 5:18:39 AM

gwheelock

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline

I don't know if this is that much of a departure from EIA. If an opponent takes your
national capitol (& you CANNOT take it back); you really REALLY should take a long
hard look at surrendering even if you don't absolutely HAVE to.

(in reply to iamspamus)

Post #: 11

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 9:44:06 AM

Soapy Frog

Posts: 282
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline

If it only requires the national capital to fall for a forced unconditional, then firstly that is a HUGE change from the board game, so I pray that it is not true.

Secondly it would be unrealistic, as (for example) Prussia did not surrender to France until July of 1807 despite Berlin being French occupied since the defeats of Jena & Auerstadt in October of 1806.

(in reply to gwheelock)

Post #: 12

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 10:03:38 AM

gwheelock

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline

I'm not saying that taking the national capitol forces PLAYERS to surrender ('tho I seem to remember
someone reporting that in one of bug reports); but it IS certainly a point at which they SHOULD start
thinking about it. And because of this; having the AI surrender when the capitol falls is probably a good
& reasonable action.

Actually I have noticed that the AI doesn't IMMEDIATELY surrender after you take the capitol; It usually
tries to counterattack if it has anything in the area & when that fails THEN it surrenders - this is a
fairly analogous action to the case you mentioned about Berlin. Prussians tried to retake; failed & THEN
surrendered once they realized <mechanical voiceover> "resistance is futile; you will be assimilated"
(sorry; couldn't resist)

(in reply to Soapy Frog)

Post #: 13

RE: Forced Surrender - 1/13/2008 6:15:11 PM

DodgyDave

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline

heh, my point about me as england holding st. petersburg, dont mean they should surrender, but russia did nothing for like over a year, if they received no money at all, they should have accepted a informal as i offered quite a few of those instead.

in the boardgame, each provience give you just so many manpower per economic phase, if you control those capitals that does give manpower, then would you be able to force country to surrender uncontionally. might be optional rule, but even if so, then it should be in the game otherwise will someone stubborn enough, just keep refusing peace.

(in reply to gwheelock)

Post #: 14