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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> American Civil War – The Blue and the Gray >> Question From a non wargamer?

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Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 1:10:36 AM

Doant1946

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Hi
I was thinking of getting into war games...I'm older 62 and am tired of kitty games...

I want something not impossible for me to learn and very immersive ......Would you recommend this game..or any others here for that matter?

Tom

Post #: 1

RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 1:27:55 AM

lparkh

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This is a pretty complicated wargame to start with. I recommend instead either the campaign series (Matrix) or the old but very immersive Panzer General II. You can probably find that for free (or cheap at amazon) these days. Still a community supporting lots of campaigns. Take a look at:
http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=70
THere are some sticky notes that will help you get started or post there. The community is very friendly.
Bottomline is start simple and work up :-) I'm still addicted to Panzer General II after probably 10+ years of playing off and on. It will probably help you if you pick a period you'e excited about too. THe two I recommended are WWII. Civil War is trickier.
Great to see someone wanting to get into wargames!

(in reply to Doant1946)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 2:58:16 AM

hadberz

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Download the demo and see if you like it :-) I agree with Iparkh PG2 is a easy to learn and fun wargame. I also recommend SPWAW.

(in reply to lparkh)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 5:07:27 AM

berto

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If it's American Civil War games you're after, I would have to agree that AGEOD's American Civil War is maybe too much for a beginner.

For something simpler, I suggest either of the Matrix John Tiller's Battleground Series of Civil War games (see elsewhere in this Forum and at the Matrix site), also the successor games to the Battleground Series, the Civil War games from HPS Simulations. These games, although not child's play, are much less daunting than the AGEOD game. Also, they have small battle scenarios (and scenarios depicting small corners of larger engagements), so the learning curve is not quite so steep. You should know, though, that the BGS and HPS games are tactical affairs, not strategic/operational simulations of the larger war a la AGEOD AACW.

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 3:13:05 PM

HobbesACW

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I would agree that AACW is a lot to take on for a first wargame but be sure to get a copy after playing one or two of the simpler games first, it's the best strategic level game I have ever played by far.

I would also suggest The Campaign Series as a good starting point. A great game even better as PBEM.
The WW2 versions of Combat Mission are also worth a look.
Cheers, Chris

(in reply to berto)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/13/2008 3:22:26 PM

RobertWevodau

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From: Bear, DE
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Gorland,

I would like to suggest Advanced Tactics: WWII as a starting point. I'm 67 myself, and have played wargames many years, but I'm not that great at them and play almost exclusively against the AI. Advanced Tactics is very easy to get in to, and simple random games against one AI opponent are fun to play and help with the learning curve. Plus the depth is there to keep you interested as you learn. In addition to the random games there are a lot of scenarios (mostly WWII but not all) available and more bare being added all the time. Read the forum topics and some of the After Action Reports (AAR's) to get a feel for the game. It's the most fun I have had with a wargame for a long time.

Robert

(in reply to Doant1946)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/16/2008 2:58:57 PM

emcgman

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The best thing is to download demos of different types of games, and check them out.

There are straight up tactical hex based games like Operational Art of War, and the Decisive Battles Series (Korson Pocket, Battles in Normandy, etc.) These are on an Operational scale where you are commanding mainly Battalions and larger units. A demo of `Battles in Normandy' is available here at Matrix Site. Just go to the Battles in Normandy Game, downloads section. Awesome series.

There is also the old `Steel Panthers World At War/WWII/Main Battle Tank-there's different versions, but you can get a complete free version of this at Shrapnel Games. This is a hex based game where you are commanding Squad to Platoon level mainly. There's a free game for you right there.

Then there are the `Grand Strategy Games' like `American Civil War', `Gary Grigsby's World At War'. A free demo of `American Civil War' is available in that games download section, here at Matrix.

So try to download demos of the different kinds of games, to find out what the gameplay is like.

`Advanced Tactics' is a hex based game similar to Operational Art Of War, but AT also includes the ability to produce New Units at Cities, and the game engine is huge, so it can also simulate Grand Startegy type games, as well. There are already many custom scenarios available, including a `World at War' and `Axis and Allies' scenario.

Then there's `Conquest of the Agean' and `Highway to the Reich' those games run in `real time' but first you give orders to your HQ's and units. It's very difeerent and cool, there's a viewable trailer and video that will show you how the game looks when it's running. It's made to pause and you can run it real slow while giving orders.

Personally, I'm not real concerned with a games complexity as far as being a newcomer, the main thing is the overall game design/type. All games can be played on easy level, with advantages to human player.

So if you like civil war atmosphere, I wouldn't be put off, because it will take you the distance with immersiveness and depth.

(in reply to RobertWevodau)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 1/24/2008 2:05:20 PM

wargamer123

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I started wargaming at the age of 12 but it may have been earlier on the PC

19 years later I still have fun killing extra time with it. IP that means Liveplay on-line wargames can be a bit intensive. These guys are talking about Hexagon and BoardGame Wargame Style PC games. It's a very fun area if you like detail and you really can appreciate it. Though there is a lot of great RTS fun games, that are very intricate but tend to appeal to a younger generation...

Strategic Command 1 and 2 are great, get those on BattleFront.Com, SC2 is the latest title and you can Download it pretty cheap. Any player can start with that WW2 game.

Matrix is a bit more complicated war games, though Gargy Grigby's WW2 games, World at War and the new addition are simple enough and available for beginners...

You have to decide if you want a pure Battle game, a War Game, a Series of Battles, an entire Age... You can decide now, For Battlefields what was suggested is great. I get bored with that, I want the Economic/Political/Intrigue/Masterpiece stuff. Paradox's Europa Unversalis II was a Classic, it is like Crack Cocaine of Epic Games...Though not as battlefield intensive as Matrix. Still yet another game that requires a lot of energy, and is better played against other players. You also have to decide if you want Play by Email and play by Internet... Depends how much time you've got, there are plenty of Matrix Games with PBEM easy time crunching games.

Anyone who is reasonably intelligent can learn them. I did as 12-13-14 years old... You have to read and tinker, don't get discouraged and have fun. There are dozens of great titles from every age, genre and all types of interfaces.

If all this information is a bit daunting I suggest you start by doing this

Goto Battlefront.com download the Strategic Command 1 demo, then after you fight that a week, try the Strategic Command2 Demo... Really easy interface, WW2 medium Light
Panzer General is played by a lot of the same crowd that is a battle game... you'll fight mini campaigns as a remeber, and is a pure joy to play, real streamlined but as I recall you don't see much economics, politics, diplomacy and MultiPlayer lags. Plus it's older

but simplicity is key, wargames are meant to appeal to a different aspect of the Gamer, You really got have the feel in your bones for the hardcore stuff, don't waste your money till you've tried them all, like eating different Cheeseburgers or Icecream ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gorland

Hi
I was thinking of getting into war games...I'm older 62 and am tired of kitty games...

I want something not impossible for me to learn and very immersive ......Would you recommend this game..or any others here for that matter?

Tom

< Message edited by wargamer123 -- 1/24/2008 2:09:03 PM >

(in reply to Doant1946)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 2/2/2008 8:43:32 AM

mllange

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Joined: 2/5/2005
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I'll second the vote for Advanced Tactics, it's got the best of the rest without the complexity and you'll get endless value from the user scenarios that will continue for years to come. It even comes with an excellent (and fairly simple to use) editor so you can tweak and create your own wargame scenarios when you've got the urge or want to see what's going on inside the game.

For something completely different and altogether fun (though a tad more complex) almost guaranteed satisfy the Civil War itch is Take Command: 2nd Manassas . REVIEW LINK

< Message edited by nim8or -- 2/2/2008 8:48:00 AM >

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 2/6/2008 1:29:30 AM

korrigan

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All these recommandations are excellent, especially Advanced tactics, however, I will shamelessly advice to give a try to the Birth of America demo.

Birth of America, with its sheer simplicity and its full flavoured athmosphere, is an excellent introduction to the AGEod games and will always be dear to my heart (actually we are working on BoA 2)

BoA is available from Matrix, a free demo is available.

Best regards,

Korrigan

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 2/17/2008 4:13:44 AM

Joe D.

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I have BoA and just bought AACW; as a seasoned AGEOD owner, I'm still scratching my head over this game, so as korrigan said, go w/BoA

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 4/22/2008 9:07:17 PM

George40

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I have played Birth of America a lot. If historical action in North America and at a very digestable level of complexity is what you are after it is fabulous. I am very much looking forward to BoA2.

I have been war gaming for about 25 years and ACW has a bit of a steep learning curve. I am hoping to have enough time to devote to it in the not too distant future to get comfortable with it.

Enjoy.
George

(in reply to Joe D.)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/28/2008 8:14:58 PM

Mike Scholl

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One other suggestion. If there is a particular period/conflict you are interested in and know something about, start with a game on that subject. Having a general knowledge of what SHOULD be happening helps when you are trying to figure out how to make it happen in a game.

(in reply to George40)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/28/2008 8:23:24 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: George40

... I have been war gaming for about 25 years and ACW has a bit of a steep learning curve. I am hoping to have enough time to devote to it in the not too distant future to get comfortable with it.

After about a month or so, I've finally got a grasp of AACW, but despite all the work that AGEOD put into this game, I'm still not confortable w/it.

Apparently the last patch didn't help me much, either, so I'm on hold for BoA2.

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/28/2008 9:12:07 PM

GShock

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What's the matter Joe, can we help?

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/28/2008 10:38:26 PM

Joe D.

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Thanks, but it's not a technical thing -- I can do most everything the game asks of the player, but I feel frustrated playing AACW. I suspect it's how the game's supply system works -- although BoA has some stringent logistics under its last patch -- plus the difficulty forming Armies, Corps and Divisions w/the officers on hand.

The AACW scenarios play well, though they are limited in scope and options -- the only campaigns I enjoy are later in the war when the Union army isn't as difficult to organize.

Esthetically, AACW sound effects leave something to be desired, and the map is too detailed w/too many colors/filters.

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to GShock)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/28/2008 11:45:01 PM

fabertong

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I've just bought this game....and after 4 days I have no idea what is going on....the UI is not just unusual....but counter-intuitive.....and I've played most.........read the manual........and still .......nada.....any suggestions most welcome.....

(in reply to Joe D.)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/29/2008 1:05:35 AM

Joe D.

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Are you patched-up to 1.10a?

OK, you read the manual, but did you go thru the step-by-step tutorial? There's also a companion illustrated tutorial that shows you what everything should look like, which is essential for understanding how to form Armies, Corps and Divisions; its a pdf located at Start, All Programs, AACW, etc.

Re the AI: in the options, set it to extended processing time; it takes a little longer, but the results are usually worth the wait.

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/29/2008 9:37:14 AM

GShock

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Current patch 1.10b

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/29/2008 10:51:13 PM

Arsan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fabertong

I've just bought this game....and after 4 days I have no idea what is going on....the UI is not just unusual....but counter-intuitive.....and I've played most.........read the manual........and still .......nada.....any suggestions most welcome.....

If you could be a little more precise on what are your problems, it will be easier to offer suggestions...

About the interface...

I find AGEOD interfaces one of the best around on wargames: very usufull tooltips over everything, simple and elegant drag and drop system...

Regards!

(in reply to fabertong)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/29/2008 11:15:18 PM

GShock

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It's not a problem of interface, AACW is hard. The interface, necessarily gotta be hard too at the beginning. When i started, i only played scenarios, my first campaign came 3 months later, and i did take a savage beating from the AI. On Pbem i am at 3-3 tied. Takes a lot to learn, it's truly much harder than other games around and it is in constant evolution. The real problem is that the manual is not always up to date...but luckily in the forums there are hundreds of helpers.

You can start, as Arsan suggested, by telling us what exactly u don't get, and u ll see the answers coming pretty quickly.

(in reply to Arsan)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/30/2008 12:31:26 PM

Saso

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quote:

I've just bought this game....and after 4 days I have no idea what is going on....the UI is not just unusual....but counter-intuitive.....and I've played most.........read the manual........and still .......nada.....any suggestions most welcome.....

WitP has a not easy interface, this one is fair

Seriously, four are a very few days to understand this game.
How to move or create a force isn't so difficult but how to use it is a different matter.

quote:

it's truly much harder than other games around

I don't believe but surely is a complex and very funny game.

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/30/2008 2:36:37 PM

GShock

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I agree, learning how to do things is relatively easy and indeed asking is better than reading the manual 100 times and that's because the game evolves so frequently that the manual can never catch up with it.
The problem comes when you want to make the troops do what you want them to do and achieve the objectives you want them to achieve. Now that's another story.

I find very useful for beginners the 101 guides published by Runyon: http://www.ageod.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6823

These are so good that even veterans may have something to learn....

In August it's been 1 year i've had this game, i'm a beta, and i play regularly both offline and online. Believe me, i am still learning and that says it all.

(in reply to Saso)

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/30/2008 3:20:14 PM

Joe D.

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Runyon's link is excellent, and I can agree w/everything he laid out, but there remains an element of frustration in AACW when you either don't have the right ranks to form your troops, or your generals aren't activated and can't from Armies, etc.

Also, supply seems much more critical in AACW than in BoA, even under the latest patch; I wish there was an easier way to track lines of supply for depots and armies because I never seem to have enough supply wagons and these replacements are tres cher.

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The best fighter-bomber of World War II

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RE: Question From a non wargamer? - 5/30/2008 4:55:16 PM

Saso

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quote:

I find very useful for beginners the 101 guides published by Runyon:

Yes, very useful, great job.

quote:

but there remains an element of frustration in AACW when you either don't have the right ranks to form your troops, or your generals aren't activated and can't from Armies, etc.

About the latter comment I don't like too, specially when the units are locked.
Ok that I can't move them but I'd like to change the chain of command at least, instead for 2-3 or more turns you can't to do anything.
Moreover for CSA side there's the problem that some units (i.e. 3rd Reserve Bde) go out of supply when are locked.

quote:

I wish there was an easier way to track lines of supply for depots and armies because I never seem to have enough supply wagons and these replacements are tres cher.

Eh eh...oui sont tres cher.
Use the transport ships, they are more cheap (or captured supply wagons).

My most complaint is the PBEM system

How is possible that there isn't a password that prevent host player from look your moves?

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Question From a non wargamer?