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Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund.

 
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Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/19/2008 10:18:22 PM   
SaltySteed

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline 		I saw that Matrix is selling ver 1. I bought that last year from developer and really liked it. I tried the ver 2 demo from the othere guy and loved it!!!

Unfortunately, I do not do on-line activations anymore. Lost too much in previous computer upgrades and or replacements. Its not that most companies won't redo it, but only so often. Plus, its a real hassle to update your entire collection with all different companies.

So, I did not activate version 2 and am demanding a refund.

I really wished Matrix sold version 2. I have lots of Matrix games due to the lack of license hoops.

Oh well, such is life.
Post #: 1
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/19/2008 10:53:12 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Er, I'm a bit confused. You're posting here to demand a refund from the developer for a version we don't sell? I hope you've already contacted them directly, because I don't think you'll have much luck with this approach.

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to SaltySteed)
Post #: 2
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 12:24:04 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I don't think he's asking for a refund...just more letting people know that he has version 2 and is asking for a refund because it has online activation and letting people know here at Matrix that he likes their distribution system.

That's how I read it.


_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

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Post #: 3
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 1:42:24 AM   
SaltySteed

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline 		JudgeDredd got it right.  I prefer the Matrix distribution system and am sorry that v2 is not an offereing here.


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 4
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 5:58:01 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Why do you not like the online activation? I wouldn't throw out Version 2 for just that, as the activation is extremely non-invasive (even for online activation). Once you type that code in, its done. I even took my copy to my parents home over Christmas, registered it there, and found no problems whatsoever. The developer seems pretty flexible about this.

In fact, the online activation for v. 2 is not really all that different from Matrix's games asking for the serial number upon install.

It isn't anything like Securom... if that is your worry. And AFAIK, the game does not check activation every time you load it up (just the first time).

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to SaltySteed)
Post #: 5
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 8:54:57 AM   
SaltySteed

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/12/2006
Status: offline

One case was a utility program from a big company (I'll not mention specific names). This tool would normally be used on many systems if you support PC's. I bought it, only used it on serviced machines, then uninstalled. After 3 activations, this utility (like the old PCTools) refused to reactivate. 75 bucks down the drain! Also, tried to use tool on system where i-net not available and it would not run.

Another case is where a game was activated, company went bust, then after I bought a new machine, nada!

Also, bought game on road while on trip, went to hotel w/o inet, and could not play!

Plus, my machine has dozens of apps and games. Replaced one of the data drives, and some things work, others don't. Do I really have to test all of them?

Also have 3 laptops and 2 desktops that I (only me) use depending on location. Not that I load all with the same stuff, but have hit limits here.

Had one dev machine that was reimaged several times for normal development work. Lost a program here.

I realize that my case is extreme. I am not a homebody that sits in front of a single "beloved" computer for years. I like new, cutting edge systems and lots of them. I am on the road 250 days a year. I also like games, and lots of them.

I do have a shrinking collection of "portable" games and apps that I either have on mem stick or carry CD in extreme cases that I load from when mood hits. For example, I still play RailroadTycoon 3, and that been unsupported for a couple of years now. No activation required. Company is bust.

Soon, not only do we have to activate, but will be forced to be online to use programs. Next we will be charged for the use of programs each time you start it.

Welcome back to the mainframe world of yesterday! (For those too young to remember, these were the "big brother" like systems before the PC)


Well... you asked, and I ranted.


(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 6
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 1:17:29 PM   
Krasny

 

Posts: 315
Joined: 7/3/2003
Status: offline 		So what form of copy protection does the Matrix version of this game have?

(in reply to SaltySteed)
Post #: 7
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 2:04:39 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Some folks don't like online activation and I think with good reason. We don't use it - just a simple serial number check as with all our games.

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Krasny)
Post #: 8
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/20/2008 9:27:20 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Some folks don't like online activation and I think with good reason. We don't use it - just a simple serial number check as with all our games.


After buying over 30 games from Matrix, you guys have online downloads perfected in my opinion. The trouble for everybody else is that they get compared to Matrix once a single purchase has been made, and that can make them suck!


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Post #: 9
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:13:06 AM   
cdbeck


Posts: 1374
Joined: 8/16/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Well, I understand the argument, but I feel it is best not to be paranoid. If a company charged for each access of a program, then gamers would not buy from that company. Believe me, you are not the first to think of this idea, and since it has not already been implemented (at least on the PC) then you are probably safe. Of course, there are Arcades, that charge $0.25 for each play... and people seem to tolerate that. Of course, they don't charge $45 entry fees.

I'm not paranoid enough to put any credence to being "monitored" through game activation. I am paranoid enough to believe that any information a game could gather is already collected in various databases by other means (simply the credit card used to purchase said game).

I do hate Securom, but this is due to its problems with ACTUAL PHYSICAL DISKS! I don't mind it's invasive nature as much as I hate the fact it just doesn't work (I currently am unable to play my copy of SimCity Societies because Securom does not recognize my legitimate copy as legitimate and cites some Emulation Software Conflict).

Losing games is a serious matter, but most online activations account for this. Depends on the seller. You could even lose a Matrix game, if you didn't back it up. This is rare, because Erik and his support staff are so generous and powerful!

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 10
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:58:45 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

Son_of_Montfort-Why do you not like the online activation? I wouldn't throw out Version 2 for just that, as the activation is extremely non-invasive (even for online activation). Once you type that code in, its done.


No it´s not done. When you reformat your PC or buy a new one you have to go through the process again.

I bought Strategic Command from Battlefront and they have online activation. To activate that game I had to go to another game site with like 25 neon sign type advertisements on it, sign up for an account at this seperate site. After doing that I got a bunch of spam in my email from this seperate gaming site all the time. Also my understanding was if I wanted to put the game on my second computer as well I had to jump through some more hoops to do that.

Then to make it worse about a year later I went back after reformatting my PC to reactivate the game. I couldn´t get it to reactivate.

This has been about 2 years ago I suppose and after that I haven´t and won´t buy another online activation game. If I buy a game it´s mine, not half mine.

And besides, for copyright protection it does not work anyways.

(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 11
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 8:54:04 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LarryP

...Matrix, you guys have online downloads perfected in my opinion.


Agree with that - Matrix, you made me trust ebusiness. Great customer service too

But your marketing and PR sucks.

Sorry but too much hype, too little substance and too much hidden in between the lines

PS: Great open forums though

< Message edited by Adam Parker -- 1/21/2008 8:55:13 AM >

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 12
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 10:47:39 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		I bought Armed Assault with online activation. Had 3 activations.

Installed - 2 activations left

I then downloaded and installed the patch and lo and behold when I went to play, I was told I couldn't....I was, apparently, out of activations. But I know I only used one. Turns out the patch uses and activation...I don't know how installing the patch used 2 activations, btu my activations were gone...couldn't play the game, which I payed for, until Monday evening.

That isn't a big deal, but it's big enough to make me stay away from alot of software now.

I'm a sick to death of being a law abiding puchaser of games and being punished as such. The tables need to be turned.

My god, they aren't going to stop piracy with these half baked attempts. In fact, it's unlikely they will get rid of it outright anyway...I don't mind them trying, but I'm bloody fed up jumping through hoops when I buy all my software.

Matrix has my vote. They have it right....non invasive, easy copy protection.

I know...I know...I know they work in a niche market and may well have "less to lose" than the Call of Duty 3 or Medal of Honor:Airborne developers....but still, these companies will not get rid of piracy. It stops casual copiers....but so does less invasive methods.


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Post #: 13
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 5:11:29 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Actually that system was removed with later patches. At least if you used the metaboli version.
You don't even need to activate it anymore I think.


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 14
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 5:31:42 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
My god, they aren't going to stop piracy with these half baked attempts. In fact, it's unlikely they will get rid of it outright anyway...I don't mind them trying, but I'm bloody fed up jumping through hoops when I buy all my software.


I have bought many games through Steam, Gamersgate, BattleFront, Direct2Drive, Strategy First, and TotalGaming in the last several years. I don't and won't do it now, and I stopped doing so since last April 2007. I got burned big time with viruses and trojans along with it. Long story and it's posted in the General forum here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1432812
Anyways, I ended up tossing about 12 games away and went down and bought them from the store, so I have the hard copies. These hoops you have to jump through in my opinion are enough to cause MORE piracy. However, as long as gamers keep them in business by running to their sites and plopping down the plastic, it's not going to go away. It's real convenient and for me being disabled it was very appealing.

Steams financial statement is available online shows that they are growing in leaps and bounds. It's not going away and they think that someday soon, this will be the preferred and most popular way of game purchase.

My wife went down and bought me the Orange Box from Walmart last fall and when I opened it up I saw it required a Steam activation. Here I have the DVD's in my hand and it requires Steam membership and activation! That pissed me off big time. Still does when I think about it, so I'm going to go play Advanced Tactics right now!!!

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Post #: 15
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 6:57:18 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		I think the risc is minimal with those systems. For your information, you arent totally safe with shrink wrapped either.
I know at least one game that was shipped with a real Virus. **** happens.



(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 16
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:21:43 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcusm

I think the risc is minimal with those systems. For your information, you arent totally safe with shrink wrapped either.
I know at least one game that was shipped with a real Virus. **** happens.


I never expected to be "safe" with shrink wrapped. I can scan it when it's at home. What I did expect was to not have to jump through hoops with installing and reinstalling.

Apparently you did not read the link I gave. The risk is NOT minimal with Steam. They proved it to me very well. Anything that plays online is subject to MUCH more virus and trojan invasion than a disk from a box. That's not even debatable. Online you open up ports that hackers can manipulate and most of these online games advise you to either allow a port\ports or turn off your firewall all together. All the virus and trojans I have ever received have been from the Internet, except for one back in the early 1990's.

< Message edited by LarryP -- 1/21/2008 7:26:52 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:24:01 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Never got anything bad from Steam and I have bought tons of stuff.
Not saying it couldn't happen. Just saying that risc level is about the same
as your virus scanner failing to scan a shrink wrapped product.


(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 18
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:52:34 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

I bought Armed Assault with online activation. Had 3 activations.

Installed - 2 activations left


Hahaha! Yes, good point JD. I had forgotten about that.

I remember seeing something about a certain number of activations too and thought to myself ¨What is this! Did I just buy this game or not?!¨

So after this experience I thought never again. Plus as I had this experience about having to go to a seperate site for activation I won´t be giving out the credit card number for one of these online activations again.

@LarryP, like you pitching your online activation games I pitched Strategic Command from Battlefront too.

I´ve bought all my games from Matrix through their direct download as I´m so far from civilization and have not had any problems at all. I was really unsure about it the first time after my Battlefront experience but now I have no second guess about ordering by direct download from Matrix. It really is the way to go if getting a box is not important for someone.

As I said before, online activation does not work for copyright protection anyways, it just punishes the honest customer. I won´t say how here but everyone of these online activation games can be and are ¨cracked¨

Even Silent Hunter 3 that brought in this new CDROM copyright thing a while back that some people reported as destroying their CDROM is ¨cracked¨

Matrix Games way of doing its online business is painless, doesn´t punish the honest customer and in my opinion is the way to go.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 19
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:53:46 PM   
Terl


Posts: 609
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I've bought games from GamersGate, direct2drive, TotalGaming, and Steam and have never had a problem. The only difficulty (and that is not even a good word for it) is when I ran out of activations on a direct2drive game. I merely sent an email and it was "fixed" by the next day. I do like Matrix's system much better; but the others are just fine as well. Am I screwed if Steam goes out of business? Yeah, probably, but I have played the heck out of the stuff already and actually have the hard copy of the two favorites anyway.

I have more issues with spam cr@p sneaking into email with "evil" things attached but the virus scanners take care of them.

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 20
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/21/2008 7:57:02 PM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		Anyone seriously think it will be impossible to find Halflife2 if Steam closes doors? You can still find 90% of the games
released 20 years ago, long after the publishers/makers went bust. And they werent even released online.

It will not be an issue.

Btw. Just a few weeks ago Judge Dread (author in this thread) had to re-buy a product from Matrixgames due
to a lost serial. So this system isn't failsafe either.

With Steam my games are safe as long as I have a valid email adress and even then I can just change my settings.
Same with GG and Stardock. Note also that D2D, GG and Steam often distributes the same games, which means if anyone of those goes bust you can rebuy it from someone else (unless you find 30 bucks prohibitive).

< Message edited by marcusm -- 1/21/2008 8:00:46 PM >

(in reply to Terl)
Post #: 21
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 12:04:28 AM   
leastonh1


Posts: 879
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Some folks don't like online activation and I think with good reason.


Thank goodness!

Any company that forces people to do this loses me as a customer.

My problem isn't so much with any potential virus or trojan, it's having my choices taken away. How many old games are out there that still run long after the publisher has disappeared? Hundreds. And many of them still work perfectly. I still have Panzer General working on XP and play it fairly regularly. I can think of a number of other old wargames where this is the case. All those games with online activation will simply stop working in a few years. The publisher drops support due to age or ceases trading, whatever the reason, and we can't play the games any more. No thanks! It leaves the customer who may still use the product out in the cold.

Regards,
Jim

_____________________________

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(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 22
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 12:18:55 AM   
marcusm

 

Posts: 776
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Göteborg/Sweden
Status: offline 		But the point is that they are bust and gone. Some games wouldn't be available at all if it wasn't
for "questionable sites". If GamersGate goes bust then Paradox games will still be available by other means. If Paradox games goes bust well then their previously released games will still be available. Worst case through "questionable sites".

There is no real difference and I say you have more options than before. Most popular games have multiple distributors online.
You can find the same games on Steam, D2D and GG. I am sure that any "must activate" games would have that patched away if publishes went bust. Either officially or unofficially.

(in reply to leastonh1)
Post #: 23
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 1:49:52 AM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

All those games with online activation will simply stop working in a few years. The publisher drops support due to age or ceases trading, whatever the reason, and we can't play the games any more.


Sure you can Jim because they are all ¨cracked¨ within weeks of their release.

I honestly don´t think this is a big problem though in this strategy genre though. We are generally older people and it´s such a small market I believe most of us realise if we don´t support the developers and publishers with our honest purchase it will disappear.

I think this is primarily a problem with the ¨shoot up¨ games and their customers primarily. Younger people, teens.


(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 24
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 3:27:28 AM   
Rocko911

 

Posts: 287
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		So does this game have online activation or the standard Matrix serial number?

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 25
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 3:36:22 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		This game as do all of our games have the standard Matrix Games serial number.



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Post #: 26
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 1:02:02 PM   
sapper_astro

 

Posts: 300
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ike99

quote:

All those games with online activation will simply stop working in a few years. The publisher drops support due to age or ceases trading, whatever the reason, and we can't play the games any more.


Sure you can Jim because they are all ¨cracked¨ within weeks of their release.

I honestly don´t think this is a big problem though in this strategy genre though. We are generally older people and it´s such a small market I believe most of us realise if we don´t support the developers and publishers with our honest purchase it will disappear.

I think this is primarily a problem with the ¨shoot up¨ games and their customers primarily. Younger people, teens.




Actually, I think you mean the 'Shoot up' games are cracked within a few weeks. Strategy games wouldn't have a great deal of hacker activity one would think. And if that is the case, then you will have to enjoy your new drink coaster, because that is the only thing it will be useful for if the link the Big Papa is broken and you wanted to install it on a new machine later on.

I stopped buying games from Battlefront for this very reason. Nothing else, just this back-to-base rubbish that they have built in.

With Matrix games, I have my serial numbers written down both on CD's, and in a notebook. Also on a bit of paper I keep in my work drawer. If anything happens to Matrix, my serial number will always allow me to install my Matrix games. If anything happened to BF and the guys there were too busy looking for new work/whatever to patch out the copy protection, I would then have to rely on either a hacked file that might contain a trojan or virus (Or not work) or pray that one day, somehow, the devs would put a patch out for their old games to lift the copy protection.

(in reply to Ike99)
Post #: 27
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 2:51:15 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

Btw. Just a few weeks ago Judge Dread (author in this thread) had to re-buy a product from Matrixgames due
to a lost serial. So this system isn't failsafe either.


I don't know if you were addressing me or saying that I had the issue.

If you were saying I had the issue, you are incorrect.

If you were addressing me, then my point would be that if Matrix Games went out of business, then I can still use my games. If I then lost my serial number, then true, I am in the same boat...but I would've lost the game through my own fault for not making a backup/print of the serial numbers....not because the company went under and left me and my purchase out to hang.

I will not buy games with online activation anymore. I will not buy games with intrusive, annoyingly slow copy protection on the disk. It's my money and I'll take it to whom I think deserves it.

_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to marcusm)
Post #: 28
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 5:20:02 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3783
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I will not buy games with online activation anymore. I will not buy games with intrusive, annoyingly slow copy protection on the disk. It's my money and I'll take it to whom I think deserves it.


Been there, done that, AMEN Brother!!!

_____________________________


(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 29
RE: Tried ver 2 and am requesting refund. - 1/22/2008 7:04:28 PM   
Ike99


Posts: 1747
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: A Sand Road
Status: offline
quote:

sapper_astro-Actually, I think you mean the 'Shoot up' games are cracked within a few weeks.


I wouldn´t be so sure of that. As mentioned earlier Battlefront requires online activation for all its war games and they only sale strategy games.

I could direct you to quite a few places right now with working ¨cracked¨ copies for download of every single one of their games. A bad thing sure...but it is like this.

But as I said before, I don´t think this is a big problem in the struggling strategy nitch as most of us are older and know if we don´t make honest purchases and support the developers and publishers this nitch market will disappear entirely.


(in reply to sapper_astro)
Post #: 30
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