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Building Scenarios - 1/21/2008 7:45:03 AM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings.

New to building scenarios.
Is it possible to build a scenario from scratch, or using one already in the game that allows you to have as many ships, task forces, ground forces, bases etc...as you'd like?
For instance, a Guadalcanal scenario with the Japanese controlling most bases in the north of the slot and the U.S. controlling most bases in the south of the slot? Just looking for a general idea as to what is and isn't possible. I've played this game for a year and a half and know there are many very intelligent people on these forums so I'd thought I'd post here.

Also, once you run a turn is it possible to edit the game file and remove or add troops, ships, planes wherever you wish?

Thanks

Gibbons

< Message edited by Gibbons -- 1/21/2008 7:53:39 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/21/2008 8:53:44 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		It is only practical to edit a scnario that exists - but if you wanted to - you could build an entire new one. WITM (War In The Med) is in effect such a thing.

It is not practical to edit turns - unless you are a programmer and able to work in undocumented files with a hex editor - or make your own turn editor. It is theoretically possible because there is no file encryption.

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 2
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/22/2008 12:27:31 AM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline
Thanks for the response el cid.

Is it possible after each turn, to go in and edit the database of the scenario, i.e. remove planes, troops etc...without disrupting anything else?


Gibbons

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 3
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/22/2008 8:20:36 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		No, a continued bone of contention. Seems many dont rust their PBEM opponent enough

You can only copy a scenrio, save as another name in  slot higher than 25 (i think) and do your thing.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 4
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/22/2008 11:05:19 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Yes - but only a very few people know how to do so. There is someone who has fixed long game turn files a couple of times - and I thought I could do so - although I just found out the particular thing I had in mind would not work properly - it isn't really very hard if you are comfortable reading file data.

Matrix has a political problem: they serve those who pay for Matrix products. They say 100% of requests are for more security. That cannot be true - certainly JeffK above and I (and others in the Forum) have requested an in turn editor - but it is close enough to true that the answer is "never gonna happen" - and worse - if someone distributed one - security would be tightened up. We need to respect that Matrix pays for this game in captial terms - and must make its customers (in numbers) happy - not just us fanatics who want more control. But RHS has now picked up a professional software engineer - and I am a hardware engineer with machine level and test software experience - so we can probably make some neat products. Others have made a familyh of tools for us - DUMP - WITP Excel - WITPEditor X - to name some of the most famous. I think we will need to do in turn editing to add seasonal maps to AE - because AE does not permit changing pwhex files during a game like WITP I does. We will not make and distribute an in turn editor - because the deal is we honor Matrix decisions about software it owns - but we can do almost anything - and we will help you if you have a problem. RHS is a volunteer team - and it gets free gifts of all sorts - art - research - just in time troubleshooting - from many people. We believe in an open community to offer more choices for players - and we do not attempt a monopoly on mods. What we do stands on the platform Matrix built - and then on top of the modifications of a small but hardworking team known as CHS (RHS is a daughter of CHS, and the coordinators of RHS and CHS have always cooperated - and sometimes we adopt common standards ).

I recommend you try to change things the "right" way - in the Matrix Editors - or in Editor X. But some things mayu require more sophisticated methods. But what you ask about here - taking units out - stuff like that - do it up front.

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 5
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/24/2008 10:50:22 AM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		I haven't played any PBEM games and I can see how being able to edit turns could cause some very unpleasant results!

I fly with an online squad in CFS2 and we'd like to use WITP to create a theatre of operations (fairly small, like the slot around Guadalcanal) and have WITP handle the AI part of combat while we fly missions in CFS2. We'd like to be able to edit the WITP turns after each mission we fly so as to remove ships or planes we destroy in our weekly online CFS2 missions. It sounds like it would be far too much work in WITP as it works now though.

I'm now wondering if maybe there is another program out there that might accomplish what I'm looking for. Thanks again for the info. I paid $80 for WITP over a year ago and was wondering how any game could be worth that much money. Simply put, it is!!

Gibbons

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 6
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/24/2008 11:59:19 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		You could use a game system similar to Harpoon set in WWII era - Rising Sun I think it is called.


(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 7
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/24/2008 2:09:42 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

RHS is a volunteer team - and it gets free gifts of all sorts - art - research - just in time troubleshooting - from many people.


Too damn bad there isn't someway to help out Cobra with his problem (whatever it is). His talents are sure to be desperately needed going forward.


< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 1/24/2008 2:11:53 PM >

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 8
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/26/2008 8:08:50 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbons


Thanks for the response el cid.

Is it possible after each turn, to go in and edit the database of the scenario, i.e. remove planes, troops etc...without disrupting anything else?


Gibbons


Sure - if you know how to "edit" the save files - it is absolutely possible to edit anything and everything - and do so with or without disrupting anything else. But this cannot be done without causing concern from any potential PBEM opponent.



_____________________________

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New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 9
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/26/2008 11:53:26 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbons


Thanks for the response el cid.

Is it possible after each turn, to go in and edit the database of the scenario, i.e. remove planes, troops etc...without disrupting anything else?


Gibbons


Sure - if you know how to "edit" the save files - it is absolutely possible to edit anything and everything - and do so with or without disrupting anything else. But this cannot be done without causing concern from any potential PBEM opponent.




You could use a third party who possibly is paid for his trouble - but anyway is trusted not to be on the "side" of either.

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 10
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/31/2008 12:43:46 PM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbons


Thanks for the response el cid.

Is it possible after each turn, to go in and edit the database of the scenario, i.e. remove planes, troops etc...without disrupting anything else?


Gibbons


Sure - if you know how to "edit" the save files - it is absolutely possible to edit anything and everything - and do so with or without disrupting anything else. But this cannot be done without causing concern from any potential PBEM opponent.





Is there a tutorial on how to edit the save files or is it a rather labor intensive software developer kind of task? As I said I have no intention of doing this in a PBEM game or any other game other than how it might be used as an adjunct to my online flightsim squad.

Gibbons

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 11
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/31/2008 4:37:13 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		No - and there is kind of an honor system not to post this - because if it is too clear - Matrix will be forced by player demand to encrypt the save game files. Matrix alleges that 100% of feedback demands more security - that cannot be true because some of us don't demand that and it has been so posted - but it may well be almost 100%. So we don't post how - or publish it. But any software engineer or programmer can do it - and that is a quote from Joe - who is both a programmer and a mathmetician.

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 12
RE: Building Scenarios - 1/31/2008 6:22:17 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

No - and there is kind of an honor system not to post this - because if it is too clear - Matrix will be forced by player demand to encrypt the save game files. Matrix alleges that 100% of feedback demands more security - that cannot be true because some of us don't demand that and it has been so posted - but it may well be almost 100%. So we don't post how - or publish it. But any software engineer or programmer can do it - and that is a quote from Joe - who is both a programmer and a mathmetician.


Do web searches on zero knowledge proofs and sharing secrets--methods of distributing secrets among m people so that at least n are required to reconstruct them. It is possible to set things up so that neither side can see the other, yet the game engine is able to access the data it needs to play out the turn.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 13
RE: Building Scenarios - 2/1/2008 12:55:49 AM   
mikemike

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: a maze of twisty little passages, all different
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

No - and there is kind of an honor system not to post this - because if it is too clear - Matrix will be forced by player demand to encrypt the save game files.


It should be sufficient to generate a cryptological checksum across the save file based on the passwords of the players and store that in the save file. An in-turn editor would simply be be unable to generate the correct checksum. The game would check the checksum every time a saved game is loaded and on a non-match produce a nice bright-red popup saying: "This save game has been edited". I have a suspicion that in-turn editing is anathema to Matrix/2by3 for some other reason, perhaps the save game structure is too fragile to reliably allow arbitrary editing.

_____________________________

DON´T PANIC - IT´S ALL JUST ONES AND ZEROES!

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 14
RE: Building Scenarios - 2/1/2008 12:59:03 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		Several requests - on the board and off - by several people - for in game editors officially sanctioned were made - and it was usually said that security could be part of the package. But the reply was "stop asking - it won't happen - and if there is too much interest - the files will be locked up - and no editor will be issued or sanctioned." Technically we all agree to this - to whatever Matrix wants - as part of the licence agreement. They own the software - and we agree to honor their terms of use.

(in reply to mikemike)
Post #: 15
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