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old betatesters - 1/29/2008 2:15:31 PM

ardilla

Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline

Hello Marshall & Co.

Some old betatester & me, we drop some lines to know if we are going to get a free copy of the game.

We are anxious to try it and join it with our friends who bought it.

Plez Marshall, can you talk with the person in charge of to let us get a free download? Even if we get a box, at least let us get it by download just in case the box takes much time...

Thank you very much and congratulations for your years of hard work.
Manu.

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Post #: 1

RE: old betatesters - 1/29/2008 5:47:41 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

Oh my God are you high? People BEGGED to be beta testers just to be able to see the product before release. Candidly only Raleigh and the developers even gave us any insight into the beta testing process. I understand there being a gag order while the game was being worked on but it has been out for a few months and your contribution to the boards is to ask for a freebie? Send in your money and support the game, that's what all of us other fans had to do and we didn't get the benefit of contributing to the creation process. It seems to me the community here has done more to correct this game since release than was done to make it work well prior to release. I know it was a new game to Marshall but beta testers, as has been pointed out multiple times, should have caught these issues that have filled our board up. You cannot read read this board and all the basic glaring errors and deviations that radically changed game balance and say you contributed anything that merits a free version.

(in reply to ardilla)

Post #: 2

RE: old betatesters - 1/29/2008 7:29:26 PM

Monadman

Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat

�Oh my God are you high? People BEGGED to be beta testers just to be able to see the product before release. Candidly only Raleigh and the developers even gave us any insight into the beta testing process. I understand there being a gag order while the game was being worked on but it has been out for�a few months and your contribution to the boards is to ask for a freebie? Send in your money and support the game, that's what all of us other fans had to do and we didn't get the benefit of contributing to the creation process.� It seems to me the community here has done more to correct this game since release than was done to make it work well prior to release.� I know it was a new game to Marshall but beta testers, as has been pointed out multiple times, should have caught these issues that have filled our board up.� You cannot read read this board and all the basic glaring errors and deviations that radically changed game balance and say you contributed anything that merits a free version.

Too funny Murat, things are not moving any differently with this project post release then it was pre-release. Same problems with bug containment and numerous demands to make it more like EiA. Only the numbers involved have change but no more negative or positive then it was in beta (although I cannot speak for Ardilla because he wasn�t around when I arrived on the scene).

Anyway, love some of the dissertations posted up here (been there - done that � agree with most) but you will never get the true EiA port that you want � sorry. What we will do, with your help; is what we have been doing for the last two years, and that is to bring this as close as possible to EiA, but unfortunately even that is in jeopardy while the struggle goes on with bug containment.

Btw, good job on the tutorial Murat (please do not stop). It is nice to see some action on this front � finally.

Richard

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Post #: 3

RE: old betatesters - 1/29/2008 7:59:04 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

There is someone who deserves a free copy (sorry for the spam but it was better than the 'I am with stupid' arrow).

(in reply to Monadman)

Post #: 4

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 2:37:40 PM

ardilla

Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline

No, I am not, and you?

I dont think you are the right person to award the merit to give or not a free version. I am not also.

This person is Marshall and/or some of the development team guys, he knows what we did for the game, the hours, days & months (of course less than him!) or not.

I supported the game for many months thru this forum first and after as a betatester and I will support the game with my money if someone from Matrix Team tells me that we have not the merit for a free copy of the game for our free working hours.

Anyway, you can drop here your opinion, this is a forum, but I must say that you dont know even half of what you are talking about.

Regards,
Manu.

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra Espa�a!!!

(in reply to Murat)

Post #: 5

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:08:06 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

If Marshall thinks you deserve a free copy that's his call, it's his game and his money to lose.� But your record speaks for itself. Prior to this post trying to scam a free game you had not posted here in 2.5 YEARS and even that post was an inane reposting of the post before you. I have seen your 'contributions' here and they certainly do not merit anything free. I have seen the result of your beta testing and it also does not deserve anything free. Beta testers failed Marshall. He's getting a lot of complaints because you did not do the job you were supposed to do. Maybe that is due in large part to the fact that 2 YEARS ago every beta tester except Raleigh quit doing any work (and he's been absent for a bit too), particularly YOU as Richard pointed out.

So while you may be right on it not being my call as to whether or not you get a free version, I can definitely make the call on whether or not you merit it. I have beta tested. My reward was my name in the manual and getting to play the game prior to release, at which point I had to BUY it in every case.�The only time I ever got free software was from EA sports and it was a fringe benefit and the old version of the games not the ones currently being sold in the stores. I helped make products better. I helped make THIS product better even not being a beta tester for it. I wish several people here had been beta testers then we would not be working out this volume of basic patches that keep popping up, we would be focusing more on enhancements.� I will give you credit for having some brass ones though - it takes a lot to ask for free stuff from�a project you abandoned.

< Message edited by Murat -- 1/30/2008 5:38:16 PM >

(in reply to ardilla)

Post #: 6

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:09:22 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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Just a note:

Most of the betatesters probably don't deserve a copy of the game. Me, personally, I was sadly taken for several months, unexpectedly, right when I became a betatester so I pretty much did no good, which did not make me happy. I do not deserve a copy, obviously.

I do think though, since it was in the NDA, that the betatesters who really put their soul into testing this thing should get a free copy, since it said they would in the NDA. JMO.

(in reply to ardilla)

Post #: 7

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:15:27 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

As a player, I have to say I was quite surprised when at my first game against the AI Prussia declared war to France and Great Britain in (if i remember well) feb 1805.

I mean, wooot? has any beta tester ever noticed that?

I immediately posted the thing here and Marshall answered in a few minutes (I think he was living on the forum those days, the game was out by 24 hours). The problem is now on the way to be fixed, I hope, with version 1.02.

< Message edited by HanBarca -- 1/30/2008 4:18:38 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:25:12 PM

NeverMan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

As a player, I have to say I was quite surprised when at my first game against the AI Prussia declared war to France and Great Britain in (if i remember well) feb 1805.

I mean, wooot? has any beta tester ever noticed that?

I immediately posted the thing here and Marshall answered in a few minutes (I think he was living on the forum those days, the game was out by 24 hours). The problem is now on the way to be fixed, I hope, with version 1.02.

Trust me when I tell you there were WAY more important things going on in playtesting than silly stuff like that, from what I read. The AI is a problem, everyone acknowledges that, but the playtesting was more about getting a game out that actually worked and somewhat resembled EiA, IMO. I obviously do not speak for MatrixGames.

Again, since it was in the NDA, I think MatrixGames should back up their promise, at least to the ones who deserve it.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 9

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:29:16 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

"silly stuff" ? Oh my god.

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Post #: 10

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:34:07 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

"silly stuff" ? Oh my god.

You simply don't understand some of the problems they were having during play testing. If you did you would know that an awkward, and yes silly, AI move was the least of their problems.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 11

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:48:20 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
You simply don't understand some of the problems they were having during play testing. If you did you would know that an awkward, and yes silly, AI move was the least of their problems.

this is an extract from a post of Marshall Ellis, 27/5/2005 (the whole post is here:

Let me tell you our upcoming schedule...

1. Add in missing elements such as TMR.
2. Finish PBEM testing.
3. Tune the AI
4. Release Version 1.00

I think something went wrong with point 3....but I'm sure I don't understand.

< Message edited by HanBarca -- 1/30/2008 4:49:20 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:51:17 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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You are correct, I don't think you do understand.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 13

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 4:53:21 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

.

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Post #: 14

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:03:35 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
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This whole discussion is very corrosive. The past is the past. Everyone should move forward.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 15

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:06:52 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

This whole discussion is very corrosive.� The past is�the past.� Everyone should move forward.

So you don't think that MatrixGames should honor their agreement?

HanBarca apparently doesn't think so because he doesn't feel that the AI lives up to his standard, so the playtesting must have been "weak". I'm sure it would have been a lot better if he were on the "team".

(in reply to pzgndr)

Post #: 16

OT: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:17:31 PM

ZoomBoy27

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/13/2001
From: Vancouver BC Canada
Status: offline

OT: When I saw the "old betatesters" , it reminded me of the phrsases about old soldiers etc.

Old betatesters never die; they're merely waiting for the final build.

(in reply to NeverMan)

Post #: 17

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:19:37 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

ROFL....look what I've found searching around. I'm sure I could find more if I had the time.

It's a post from neverman, 2/26/2005: (the whole post is here)

Well, seeing as how TMR JUST BECAME an issue, I have to question the methods in which Matrix went about choosing these "Beta Playtesters". It's obvious that not many of them have experience with EiA. I am sure Marshall and the Playtesters are doing their best, I just wish that another company had picked up EiA before Matrix got their hands on it and ruined it. I guess I can still be happy that at least someone is attempting it, without Matrix I am not sure there would ever be a CEiA.

After that, I think i'll leave the troll alone.

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Post #: 18

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:23:21 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
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quote:

So you don't think that MatrixGames should honor their agreement?

I did not say that. My point is that all discussions of betatesting, NDAs and such should be conducted via private email or PMs, not out in the open as in this thread. This is not the place.

I've been a playtester for several games. What I am seeing in this thread is corrosive and unhelpful.

(in reply to ardilla)

Post #: 19

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 5:52:43 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

ROFL....look what I've found searching around. I'm sure I could find more if I had the time.

It's a post from neverman, 2/26/2005: (the whole post is here)

Well, seeing as how TMR JUST BECAME an issue, I have to question the methods in which Matrix went about choosing these "Beta Playtesters". It's obvious that not many of them have experience with EiA. I am sure Marshall and the Playtesters are doing their best, I just wish that another company had picked up EiA before Matrix got their hands on it and ruined it. I guess I can still be happy that at least someone is attempting it, without Matrix I am not sure there would ever be a CEiA.

After that, I think i'll leave the troll alone.

Good find since it also had Ardilla adding nothing to the conversation several times over making his claims even less meritorious.

Let me add this little gem from today:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Tutorial needed. This is a COMMERCIAL GAME made by a COMPANY. Some of the posters here treat this game as though it were some community project freeware, which it is NOT. It's a $70 game. Let me repeat, a SEVENTY DOLLAR GAME!! That's the most expensive computer game I have ever even considered buying.

That said, the very little I did play of the game came pretty easy. Although I found, at that time, the UI to be ugly, out dated and clunky (which it looks like it still is, like some 1985 pixel programmer put together the graphics), I didnt' find it difficult to "use", in the sense that I could move my corps, make attacks, make builds, etc, etc.

This is coming from a playtester.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

So you don't think that MatrixGames should honor their agreement?

I did not say that. My point is that all discussions of betatesting, NDAs and such should be conducted via private email or PMs, not out in the open as in this thread. This is not the place.

I've been a playtester for several games. What I am seeing in this thread is corrosive and unhelpful.

I agree this is corrosive but that's because someone started this by begging for a free game they did not merit. As for all discussion about beta testing and 'such' this is exactly where it needs to be discussed. This is the worst case of beta testers missing important flaws that I am aware of (and I have seen some bad releases). Ardilla claims in the post that Han found that the beta testers are experienced players, well it sure doesn't show with basic rules not working properly, and I am not talking about the rules that were purposeful deviations. The more the game has been played the large the question of 'what exactly did the beta testers DO for the last 5 years?' becomes larger and with the apparent exception of the last 2 years it appears the answer is 'very little'. You are right, we should move on, we have moved on, and we are working to advocate for changes that make the game better. People who have not contributed constructively for 2.5 years (I would suggest ever after reading Ardilla's posts) do not need to be jumping in here trying to score free loot when they need to be addressing the problems they ignored or abandoned in the past.

< Message edited by Murat -- 1/30/2008 5:57:51 PM >

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 20

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 6:30:26 PM

ardilla

Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat
If Marshall thinks you deserve a free copy that's his call, it's his game and his money to lose.�

That is the point, you can freely post your "speach" here, its your time.

quote:

But your record speaks for itself. Prior to this post trying to scam a free game you had not posted here in 2.5 YEARS and even that post was an inane reposting of the post before you. I have seen your 'contributions' here and they certainly do not merit anything free.

Yes, my record spoke for itself, I didnt post in 2 years, and you think you can JUDGE me for it?
Not happy enough, you also judge my posts or contributions here, you really deserve your nick Murat, prepotent.

As I said, you dont know much about this, you are talking about this public forum contributions, not about my contributions in the private development forum, neither my free time 2 years ago, mails and games and games I played, alone versus the AI or by email, saved games reports and many nites.

quote:

I have seen the result of your beta testing and it also does not deserve anything free. Beta testers failed Marshall. He's getting a lot of complaints because you did not do the job you were supposed to do. Maybe that is due in large part to the fact that 2 YEARS ago every beta tester except Raleigh (and he's been absent for a bit too), Richard and maybe Joe quit doing any work, particularly YOU as Richard pointed out.

To who am i talking with? GOD?

I can tell from your words you are one of those guys who love to judge everybody else from above his shoulder but doesnt like it the other way.

I am not like you and I am proud of it, I will never judge someone's work as easily as you do, not even YOURS.

quote:

I have beta tested. My reward was my name in the manual (why isn't yours in there?) and getting to play the game prior to release, at which point I had to BUY it in every case.�

Probably my name is not there because MG did not think I contribuited enough in the project as you. Congratulations!

I did too, and I am really proud of it, no matter what you think about my work and other betatesters work long time ago, and I know that all of us left some contributions to the game, more or less, we aported our best in it, as far as we could/knew.

Its really arrogant from you the way you talk and despise other people "free" time & work.

quote:

I will give you credit for having some brass ones though - it takes a lot to ask for free stuff from�a project you abandoned.

Thanks for the credit!
You should listen a song called "try walking in my shoes" from Depeche Mode...onces in a while.
I abandoned for many reasons, mainly personal ones, which I do not have tell and less to you.
If i asked for it is because I did contribute to the game, no matter what you tell me, and I love the boardgame.

Have a nice day...

P.S.: I apologize for this thread, I post it about 2 months ago in the private development section with no answer.

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Santiago y cierra Espa�a!!!

(in reply to Murat)

Post #: 21

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 6:54:19 PM

Grimrod42

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/10/2008
Status: offline

Hey lets all play nice and move on

we have alot of work ahaed us to get the game to be where it should be.

(in reply to ardilla)

Post #: 22

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:30:35 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

ROFL....look what I've found searching around. I'm sure I could find more if I had the time.

It's a post from neverman, 2/26/2005: (the whole post is here)

Well, seeing as how TMR JUST BECAME an issue, I have to question the methods in which Matrix went about choosing these "Beta Playtesters". It's obvious that not many of them have experience with EiA. I am sure Marshall and the Playtesters are doing their best, I just wish that another company had picked up EiA before Matrix got their hands on it and ruined it. I guess I can still be happy that at least someone is attempting it, without Matrix I am not sure there would ever be a CEiA.

After that, I think i'll leave the troll alone.

Yes and? I made that post before they made me a playtester, what is your point?

Look man, I'm sorry you got your panties in an uproar. The fact remains that MatrixGames did NOT do a faithful conversion of the game, that's obvious to anyone who has ever played the board game EiA. I also stated there that if not for MatrixGames there wouldn't be a CEiA, so I was thankful for that.

EDIT: As far as Han and Murat attacking the beta testers, where were you? Like I said, I never really got to beta test but I often read the Beta test forums and there were SOOO MANY problems that you hindsighters don't know. It's also very mature to attack a whole group of people that helped (freely I might add) bring this game to fruition.

< Message edited by NeverMan -- 1/30/2008 7:35:51 PM >

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 23

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:46:39 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Yes and? I made that post before they made me a playtester, what is your point?

Oh my god.....do you suffer of any double personality problem? you posted this one hour ago in another EiA thread (the whole thread is here)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Once again if you actually read my posts you would know that I never got a chance to playtest. I really wish you would get your head out of your ass and read people's posts before replying to them and jumping all over them. It just makes you look ignorant.

So, make up your mind: did you playtest or not? What's your name? What do you see in this ink stain?

Guys, that's too funny

< Message edited by HanBarca -- 1/30/2008 7:47:39 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:49:01 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Yes and? I made that post before they made me a playtester, what is your point?

Oh my god.....do you suffer of any double personality problem? you posted this one hour ago in another EiA thread (the whole thread is here)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Once again if you actually read my posts you would know that I never got a chance to playtest. I really wish you would get your head out of your ass and read people's posts before replying to them and jumping all over them. It just makes you look ignorant.

So, make up your mind: did you playtest or not? What's your name? What do you see in this ink stain?

The post of mine you quoted (found) was from 2005, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. It's 2008 by the way.

I was made a playtester. That is what I said.

I apologize, it's obvious English is not your first language, so I'm sorry if this is confusing for you.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 25

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:50:38 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

you really don't know when it's time to shut up, don't you ?

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Post #: 26

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:51:14 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

you really don't know when it's time to shut up, don't you ?

If you want to bicker and act like a child, just PM me from now on, otherwise add something.

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 27

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 7:55:15 PM

SamuraiProgrmmr

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

you really don't know when it's time to shut up, don't you ?

Just curious, but have you ever read the parable of the mote and the beam?

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 28

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 8:00:46 PM

fvianello

Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline

oh come on....this is not the forum of salvation army ;)
This guy can't even decide if he was a playtester or not.....

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Post #: 29

RE: old betatesters - 1/30/2008 8:07:21 PM

NeverMan

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

oh come on....this is not the forum of salvation army ;)
This guy can't even decide if he was a playtester or not.....

I told you before I was a playtester (I have the NDA to prove it), I just didn't get time to actual do any playtesting. What about that is so hard for you to understand?

(in reply to fvianello)

Post #: 30