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Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/24/2007 5:21:02 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		The following information; concerning the exchange of battle files during the land combat phase in PBEM games, which was absent in the manual at release, will be in the next addendum and in-game manual when the first patch comes out. Because some of you are involved in PBEM games and might need it before the next patch comes out, I’m posting this info now.

Richard

ADDITION
Exchanging Battle Files
When there is field or trivial combat during the land combat phase of a PBEM game, where more than one corps of the defender is engaged, the two player opponents involved will exchange battle files (found in the battles folder). IMPORTANT: the player who is currently playing his or her turn, does not exchange land combat turn files at this time.

Each time an opponent plays a round of combat, the program will write the data to a special battle file, which will bear the game name and the location of where the battle is being fought.

Example: pbembattle_GameName_Lille0.battle

When receiving a battle file from your opponent, always overwrite the older battle file (of the same name) found in the battles folder (do not save copies). When the battle concludes, the data from the battle is written to the land combat turn file (pbm extension). The player who is currently playing the land combat phase must conclude ALL battles during this phase before sending the land combat turn file to all players in the group.


< Message edited by Monadman -- 12/27/2007 10:47:43 PM >

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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/24/2007 7:48:57 PM   
Suvorov928


Posts: 157
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Awesome!


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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 1:15:49 PM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline 		I still do not understand how to handle PBEM battles:

I am Turkey, my corps being attacked in Tripoli by the Austrian controlled Tripolitania corp.
It's Austria land turn, and he sent me a .battle file.

How should I proceed? I guess I should chose my chit and send it back, but HOW?
I tried to put the .battle file either in the Battle folder or in the commin folder, but I cannot find a way to open it. So I am stuck!

More info is needed, please!!

Ashtar

(in reply to Suvorov928)
Post #: 3
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 4:07:16 PM   
fvianello


Posts: 534
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Let's hope that this new info will help to get out of the murk we're currently in with our The Ogre PBEM :-\

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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 4:42:27 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Okay, when you receive the battle file from your opponent, place it in the battles folder (always overwrite existing battle files). Now load your saved game and once inside the game, go to the area where the battle is being fought (it should still have a yellow border around it). When you click that area the battle screen will open and it is now your turn to play (pick a chit, fight a round or pursue). Note: if you were to click the area on the map where a PBEM battle was being fought and it was not your turn, the program would display a message window indicating that you are currently waiting for you opponent to play. When you are done playing your turn, follow the same procedure and send your opponent (not the other players) the battle file found in the battles folder. Continue until the battle concludes, at which point the program will have written all the battle info to the land combat file. The land combat and land move files (both with .pbm extensions) are sent to ALL the players in the group.

Hope that helps

Richard


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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 5:07:29 PM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		some said that, if there is more then 1 battle, then do you just fight one battle at a time is that true? or do you do one round with all you have that round?

like as france, you have jumped austria in 3 places with corps vs corps battles, so as france, you open each battle in turn, pick a chit and then send battle file with 3 different battles and the austria opens each and pick chit and send the battle file back?

if its like that, then if you as france have 1 vs england, 2 vs austria and a single vs prussia, do you send same battle file to all of them and they can then just open their part of the battles?

(in reply to Monadman)
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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 6:19:24 PM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks Richard,
better now, but still not crystal clear. Here it is what happened:

I am NOT the phasing power here.
I save the battle file I received from Austria (Austria is the phasing maj power attacking me)
in the Battle folder.
I load the .sav game, and it is Austria Land Turn, if I click on the battle area (Tripoli in my case) nothing happens (indeed attacking troops are not there), so I ask the land file to Austria, the phasing mj power.
Now I load the phasing maj power land file and Austrian troops are in Tripoli attacking me.
The PC says is now Austrian land battle turn, I click on the battle area and the battle screen appear.
I chose my chit, dices for the first combat turn of the first day are rolled.
Now it seems I have to send the .battle file back to Austria, the attacking phasing maj power.
Then, I guess, he will finish the battle and send out the land combat file to everyone...

Three questions:
a) Are we doing right?
b) In your first post you said that neither the land nor the land combat files are exchanged
during combats, and that they are both written after the combat ends, but this seems to be
inaccurate. I guess the right sequence should be
1. Phasing maj power does land phase, he send the land file out to everyone. It is now combat
phase.
2. Phasing maj power starts the combat and choses his chit; .combat file is sent to the
defending maj power. He clicks on the combat area, does his stuff and sends back the combat
file to the phasing maj. power.
3. At the end of the combat, the phasing maj. power end his land combat file and send it to all
the other players.
So the land file is sent out to everyone before combat(s) starts and only
the land combat files are written after the combat(s). Can you confirm this is right?
c) If it is right, why I could not finish the day and send back the battle file to the phasing
power after the first turn? No more choices are to be done before the end of the day, and this
looks like further slowing down...

thanks again

Francesco





(in reply to DodgyDave)
Post #: 7
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/27/2007 10:43:49 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Ah, my bad Francesco, I stuck the land phase in there. I just changed the last sentence in the addendum so that it reads:

The player who is currently playing the land combat phase must conclude ALL battles during this phase before sending the land combat turn file to all players in the group.

The land movement turn file must be sent to the players involved in any pending battles or else they would not see the actual attack. It is recommended that the phasing major power send his land movement turn file to ALL players in the group first then, under a separate email, send the battle files to the other major powers that will be involved in combat (but as you get good at exchanges this can change).

Richard


< Message edited by Monadman -- 12/27/2007 10:47:02 PM >

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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/28/2007 2:07:24 AM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, thank you Richard,
now it makes sense.

Still I think you should try to change the battle sequence to speed up play in future patches.
How it is now, you have to exchange the battle file back and forth FOR EVERY TURN OF COMBAT, the only benefit being that you can chose every turn how to take losses.

On the other hand, taking losses is one of the few operation that can be easily automated without problems in the great majority of situations. My proposal is to automate taking losses and to have a single file exchange FOR EVERY DAY OF COMBAT. It works this way (which incidentally should be completely CHEAT FREE):

a) The phasing power (i.e. the attacker) choses his chit for the day. The program
generates all the required die rolls - 6 for the combat turns plus some others for
possible strategic and pursue operations (maximum 4) - which are kept secret and inscribed in
the .battle file
b) The defending power receives the .battle file and choses his chit. The attacker chit is NOT
revealed at this time.
c) The attacking power receives back the .battle file and finally sees the chit selection and the
combat turns one by one for the entire day.

Even the choice to purse the withdrawing side could be decided in advance, possibly conditioned by
the pursuit class number (i.e. "pursuit only if pursuit class number greater then 2")

As you can see, faster and totally immune to cheating - there is no way to roll back bad chit decision or unlucky rolls.

Francesco

(in reply to Monadman)
Post #: 9
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/28/2007 4:17:43 AM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DodgyDave

some said that, if there is more then 1 battle, then do you just fight one battle at a time is that true? or do you do one round with all you have that round?

like as france, you have jumped austria in 3 places with corps vs corps battles, so as france, you open each battle in turn, pick a chit and then send battle file with 3 different battles and the austria opens each and pick chit and send the battle file back?

if its like that, then if you as france have 1 vs england, 2 vs austria and a single vs prussia, do you send same battle file to all of them and they can then just open their part of the battles?


Unfortunately, we ran into all kinds of complications when the program was handling multiple battle file exchanges, so at the moment, it will only allow ONE battle to be fought to completion before allowing the next to start.

Richard


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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/28/2007 8:35:05 PM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		as others have, i fear that pbem, will be too slow to play properly and that it will take years to just finish a game and with years, i mean alot of them per game :(

consider our normal boardgame, we played once per week, so managed about 3 months with alot of combat and 6 months without alot of combat.

< Message edited by DodgyDave -- 12/28/2007 8:37:33 PM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/28/2007 8:49:54 PM   
dodod

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 12/26/2007
Status: offline 		The game is great.

The AI is not.

The best thing about this game should have been to play against others, and quite frankly, having tried the PBEM, it is so cumbersome, that most people end up quitting, unless you are a die hard EIA boardgame fan.

It takes soooo long to play even one individual phase of a single country...with combat and all...there has got to be an easier way...Real time games would theoretically be harder than this as the turns are compartmentalized. The real solution will be tcp/ip...and I hope it doesn't take a year to come out with that.  Even the PBEM should be able to handle multiple combats against the same person...

2 files can be made, and the combat files from 2 different months can be stored in each...then numbers can represent the state of combat, and these can be sent with the proper info?  multiple files can be sent to the combating countries...so that at least they can all do combat at the same time!!

this is a major problem.  The game is easy to sell to boardgamers, but to new players and non-die hard fans will quit by the 2nd month!!

(in reply to DodgyDave)
Post #: 12
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 12:42:13 AM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DodgyDave

as others have, i fear that pbem, will be too slow to play properly and that it will take years to just finish a game and with years, i mean alot of them per game :(

consider our normal boardgame, we played once per week, so managed about 3 months with alot of combat and 6 months without alot of combat.



I hear that one too.

Meanwhile, I just ran thru a three-battle land combat phase as France (two battles v. Prussia and one v. Austria) and the program was able to exchange/load all three battle files together in any order I chose, however, one battle balked at the end when it required a battle file when none was necessary (could not advance game). That is how close we are to removing the current recommendation to work one battle at a time. Still, with the ability to simultaneously operate several battles in one land combat phase, it will still be a relatively slow format.

Richard



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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 2:48:56 AM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		ok, well i hope it will get fixed, because its still better to do all battles in 1 battle file, then to do one battle at a time. which by the sound of it, sounds very slow.

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Post #: 14
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 10:19:00 AM   
gwheelock

 

Posts: 563
Joined: 12/27/2007
From: Coon Rapids, Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ashtar

Ah, thank you Richard,
now it makes sense.

Still I think you should try to change the battle sequence to speed up play in future patches.
How it is now, you have to exchange the battle file back and forth FOR EVERY TURN OF COMBAT, the only benefit being that you can chose every turn how to take losses.




Actually; more complicated than simply taking losses; you also have guard commitment & reinforce attemps happening as well...

Guy

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Post #: 15
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 5:02:35 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		EIANW comes with a Quick combat resolution feature.

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Post #: 16
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 8:11:44 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Murat

EIANW comes with a Quick combat resolution feature.


Yes, and for those who are not tolerant of the meticulous pace of the regular file exchange format, there is the PBEM Quick Combat option. This allows for multiple combats to be resolved without the need for file exchanges, which significantly expedites play. The program handles it the same way as it does single corps battles (the attacker controls the flow). Defenders must rely on giving standing orders to their corps for first day chit selection. This is why there is a “set orders” button available for land forces during the reinforcement AND naval phase. Note: the defender will be unable to commit guard or call for reinforcements using this option. Also, if there is combat after the first day, the defender’s chit picks revert back the AI.

Thanks for mentioning that Murat.

Richard


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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 8:37:44 PM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		on the guard issue, why cant you commnit the guard first round? i was looking in the normal boardgame rules about this and it does not say anywhere that you need to finish first round first, but that you have to commit guard, before rolling result of the battle.

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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 10:45:50 PM   
Monadman


Posts: 2085
Joined: 12/6/2005
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DodgyDave

on the guard issue, why cant you commnit the guard first round? i was looking in the normal boardgame rules about this and it does not say anywhere that you need to finish first round first, but that you have to commit guard, before rolling result of the battle.


You should be able to with the Austrian, French, Prussian or Russian guards. Perhaps you were expecting to do so with the British or Spanish guards, which may not be committed.

Richard


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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 12/29/2007 11:35:40 PM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		i have played varies nations and i do remember how guard commitment works, but i have had times, where i wanted to commit for first round, but no option for that.

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Post #: 20
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/4/2008 8:45:33 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Hey guys:

A little clarification should be stated for PBEM battle file exchanges:

I cannot speed up by allowing multiple battles to be in progress at the same time!

The phasing player will need to resolve each battle in his/her chosen order, one at a time.
This was the original design and needs to stay this way because:

1. A player could change his/her decision/casualties based on another battles current progress i.e. Wow, France just murdered me in the second round of the battle of Magdeburg so I'm choosing not to do additional rounds battle in this battle of Berlin.

2. Retreat possiblities will NOT be dynamic. Often battle order resolution is chosen based on the possible opening of a valid retreat area based on a victory. In simultaneous execution mode this could be overlooked and/or changed in the middle which is not in the original EiA or EiANW or EiH rules.

In order to speed these exchanges up, I would think that PBEM Quick combat should be selected which will put the AI in charge of the non-phasing player's forces thus eliminating exchanges.

Does this make sense?







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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/5/2008 1:10:08 AM   
zaquex


Posts: 368
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Vastervik, Sweden
Status: offline 		It does and it doesnt, from a pbem sense it does, its vital that the game runs fast and with as few exchanges as possibly but from a EiA perspective you lose one of the features that makes this game unique and great (no other game ive seen have managed to abstract combat as much and make it simple, yet manage to make it feel realistic and exciting).

No other game has ever made me think/sweat as much as EiA before a big battle against Napolean where you know you have to outpick him or lose the war, is he doing the obvious, is he bluffing or even doing the doubble bluff... damn i love this game. And its not always sure who you gonna fight when you give ur orders and my orders would definatly be different depending who I face (player personality, nation, leaders, terrain all have some significance for your choice and this is where there is a fair bit of skill/knowledge involved). Also removing the ability of using reinforcement and commiting guards cancels another layer of tactics wich in all would make the game pretty pale and ordinary.

I more and more think this game is much better suited for direct play. A lot of features that in PBEM need to be constrained or worked around, to make the game flow, could with a client server model (TCP/IP) be more in line or true to the original game.

Peace conditions could be worked out in real time, at the time of signing the peace treaty, orders be given at the time of battle, support of nations (DOW's), retreats of ships after battle etc etc. In everyway I think this would cater for a much better game. The question is if its possible to find seven players here on the forum that are willing/have the time to play at the same time...


Regards

zaq



< Message edited by zaquex -- 1/5/2008 1:14:00 AM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/5/2008 1:30:21 AM   
Grognot

 

Posts: 409
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		One note regarding peace terms -- since they may only be selected by one player each, and selection is supposed to be interleaved, it would be good if one were able to rank the terms in order of preference rather than merely check them.  That way, one can specify a back-up choice in case one's first choices are no longer available. 

It's not quite as flexible as actual interleaved choice with knowledge of the previous picks (it's conceivable that one's picks may be dependent on another's even if they aren't technically mutually exclusive -- for instance, you may not want 'forced access' anymore if somebody else is getting the land you wanted to move through), but ranking would be better than what's presently there.

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Post #: 23
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/5/2008 2:25:09 AM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Actually it should already be ranked and should drop to the next choice if the current one is unavailable. That's why you're allowed to move them up and down in the list and check multiples. Are you not seeing this?



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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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Post #: 24
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/5/2008 2:35:52 AM   
Grognot

 

Posts: 409
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		Oh, it wasn't obvious to me that they were moveable.   :o  My bad.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 25
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 1/5/2008 3:00:58 AM   
DodgyDave

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/30/2002
Status: offline 		Marshall i dont like the idea of playing using PBEM Quick combat, because it like defeats the purpose of playing with other players, as i could just as well play with the AI just, but i did not want this game to play vs AI :)

also pbem seems rather slow and i began in 4 games, 1 have restarted, quite a few have left game due to real life and others joined, not sure one of them is even in March yet and if so, then we are just in the start of it.

now i am not looking forward to combat anymore, because if 3 months in the games takes several weeks, then will combat really slow down the game.

so what i am saying here is, please consider TCP/IP, if that will allow us, to play a game on a regular basic, like we decide to play each monday for 4 to 6 hours like a regular game and should be able to manage at least 3 months :)

(in reply to Grognot)
Post #: 26
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 2/7/2008 4:04:30 PM   
dauphan129

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/12/2007
Status: offline 		Sticky this please! I have several Players in Several games that are having issues with this.

(in reply to DodgyDave)
Post #: 27
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 2/7/2008 5:12:23 PM   
isandlwana


Posts: 30
Joined: 1/16/2008
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		To Marshall and others --God job so far BUT are there actual plans for server based game play in future?  As close to FTF play as possible is I think necessary to really get this game going in a realistic fashion.  I echo the others above--current PBEM is just too slow and cumbersome!

(in reply to dauphan129)
Post #: 28
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 2/13/2008 8:44:52 PM   
Cunctator

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		In "Bon Chance" PBEM game, in Tunisia, Tunis single corp attacked one turkish corp....quick roll option is disabled.
They are currently exchanging battle files....
How can it happen?
Exchanging of battle files was or not reserved to battles with more then one corp involved on the defender's side?

Please clarify this issue as soon as possible, because if battle file exchanging is extendend to ALL battles we will never have the hope of finishing an entire game.



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Post #: 29
RE: Exchanging battle files in PBEM games - 2/13/2008 9:26:24 PM   
bresh

 

Posts: 936
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cunctator

In "Bon Chance" PBEM game, in Tunisia, Tunis single corp attacked one turkish corp....quick roll option is disabled.
They are currently exchanging battle files....
How can it happen?
Exchanging of battle files was or not reserved to battles with more then one corp involved on the defender's side?

Please clarify this issue as soon as possible, because if battle file exchanging is extendend to ALL battles we will never have the hope of finishing an entire game.




As a side note, both the Tyrkish attacks during its own phase.
Vs the minorC.-Tunis-corps and minorC-Egypt corps no fileexchange happend.
And bit strange, for both fights ai-choosed same chit(withdraw).

Regards
Bresh

(in reply to Cunctator)
Post #: 30
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