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An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's economy

 
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An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's economy - 2/13/2008 7:23:07 PM   
starsis1

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, everyone. I have seen many posts on this forum discussing the need to correctly simulate the fact that many of the Japan's AKs were used to ferry food, etc around Home Islands and could not be used for resource/troop transport in far away places like South Pacific or Dutch East Indies. What do you think about the following idea - create a pool of AKs that would simulate the needs of the Home Islands economy with a set total (say 1 million AK capacity points). Now, if user allocates more then that, then economy is going great. Alternatively, user can draw on the ships from this pool but at the cost of the efficiency of the HI/etc factories. Possible enhancements could be to tie total required capacity to the size of the economy and/or introducing similar thing for TKs.
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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 9:29:59 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starsis1
Hi, everyone. I have seen many posts on this forum discussing the need to correctly simulate the fact that many of the Japan's AKs were used to ferry food, etc around Home Islands and could not be used for resource/troop transport in far away places like South Pacific or Dutch East Indies. What do you think about the following idea - create a pool of AKs that would simulate the needs of the Home Islands economy with a set total (say 1 million AK capacity points). Now, if user allocates more then that, then economy is going great. Alternatively, user can draw on the ships from this pool but at the cost of the efficiency of the HI/etc factories. Possible enhancements could be to tie total required capacity to the size of the economy and/or introducing similar thing for TKs.


There is a concerted effort going on, among several members of the AE team, to address the very issue you raise. There won't be a ship pool, but the home economy will have an impact on the availability of tonnage. Rest assured, there will no longer be an excess of Japanese shipping; tanstaafl (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). As we get it more dialed in, we'll post it. Thanks for your comments, they are well taken. Ciao.

(in reply to starsis1)
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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 9:34:40 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Ja, ja, ja, das ist gut, das ist gut...

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 9:36:47 PM   
starsis1

 

Posts: 45
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Status: offline 		Thank you
Dankeschön

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 10:12:22 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Anyone care to guess how many metric tons of soybean cake the Japanese imported in 1942???....and from whence it came?

< Message edited by treespider -- 2/13/2008 10:13:08 PM >

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 10:19:26 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Anyone care to guess how many metric tons of soybean cake the Japanese imported in 1942???....and from whence it came?


Is that cake with icing and candles, or just icing?

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/13/2008 11:19:47 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

Now, if user allocates more then that, then economy is going great. Alternatively, user can draw on the ships from this pool but at the cost of the efficiency of the HI/etc factories. Possible enhancements could be to tie total required capacity to the size of the economy and/or introducing similar thing for TKs.


The problem with that is that at no time during the war was Japan's economy going great. It started the war 2 Million GRT short of what it needed to maintain its civilian economy, and military operations of EVERY kind, including the mere maintenance of Status Quo Ante in China (along with military budget expenditures approaching 60% of Japanese GDP) prevented the Japanese civilian economy from expanding and more generally led to a slow decline in the health and wealth of ordinary Japanese citizens well prior to significant Allied bombing efforts.

The proper way to simulate the effects of the shortage of AKs is to have Japan's ability to wage war modeled as a self-destructing artifice whose capability simply deteriorates much faster when Japan moves ships, men or aircraft ANYWHERE for ANY reason. I know that view won't be popular, but it would be the best simulation of the shortfall in Japanese merchant capacity. There was in reality no "middle ground" between sustained economic activity and military operations because both (irrespective of each other) overtaxed the extant Japanese merchant fleet.

So, either radically increase the resource and fuel demands of Japanese domestic industry, or radically decrease the total number of AKs available to Japan. Just treat them as "tied up with domestic industry" and get on with it. Actually, do BOTH and you come nearer the mark.

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/14/2008 12:12:12 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Anyone care to guess how many metric tons of soybean cake the Japanese imported in 1942???....and from whence it came?


Is that cake with icing and candles, or just icing?



How about Kwantung Soybean Cake topped with a heavy layer of Indo-Chinese Salt and a heaping side of Bintan Island Bauxite, garnished with some Nauru Island phosphate?

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 8
RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/14/2008 12:13:06 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		MmmHmm, that's goooood eating...

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 2/14/2008 12:16:58 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Just wait till you see the dessert.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 10
RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 3/20/2008 6:03:49 AM   
Jmsimer


Posts: 40
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Chaska, MN
Status: offline 		I have to say this is another topic that falls into the dilemma of making a game that is historically accurate vs. making a game that allows for non-historical results. I think the more accurately you model the Japanese economy, the more you doom the Japanese player to defeat - unless you give the player so much control over said economy that this becomes an economic more than a military game!

So mdiehl, your point is well-taken, but IMHO your suggestion is too extreme.

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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 3/21/2008 7:21:56 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jmsimer

I have to say this is another topic that falls into the dilemma of making a game that is historically accurate vs. making a game that allows for non-historical results. I think the more accurately you model the Japanese economy, the more you doom the Japanese player to defeat - unless you give the player so much control over said economy that this becomes an economic more than a military game!

So mdiehl, your point is well-taken, but IMHO your suggestion is too extreme.


That begs the question - was the Japanese economy doomed to collapse? Was there literally NOTHING that could have changed the dynamic? When the US economy was suffering from both inflation AND stagnation in the 70's, more than one economist saw no hope whatsoever. And they were wrong.

(in reply to Jmsimer)
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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 3/21/2008 1:34:10 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Anyone care to guess how many metric tons of soybean cake the Japanese imported in 1942???....and from whence it came?


Is that cake with icing and candles, or just icing?



How about Kwantung Soybean Cake topped with a heavy layer of Indo-Chinese Salt and a heaping side of Bintan Island Bauxite, garnished with some Nauru Island phosphate?


You're over complicating it. The correct question is "African or Eurpoean swallows"



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RE: An idea on how to simulate AK usage by the Japan's ... - 3/22/2008 5:58:24 AM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		I still think the best way to handle this would be to put in "food centers" with the resource centers and have the Japanese need pretty much equal amounts of food and resources to feed their factories and manpower centers.


(in reply to HMSWarspite)
Post #: 14
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