Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/9/2008 2:42:56 PM

CallMeFrank

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/29/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

My question: what are the odds for planes perfoming Naval Search missions to run into enemy CAP and get shut down?

I can not remember any such events in my games so far. It wonders me to see my Catalinas spotting enemy TF in areas with strong enemy fighter CAP (my bombers that go after the spotted TFs get the beating).
I assume that pilots flying Patrol-Craft will use any possible tactics to avoid contact with enemy fighters - but, they should be easy pray once spotted.
Would in real life a US pilot have performed a patrol flight over -say- Truk on a blue sky day in 1942?

Thanks, for your thoughts on that...

Post #: 1

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/9/2008 4:09:48 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallMeFrank

My question: what are the odds for planes perfoming Naval Search missions to run into enemy CAP and get shut down?

I can not remember any such events in my games so far. It wonders me to see my Catalinas spotting enemy TF in areas with strong enemy fighter CAP (my bombers that go after the spotted TFs get the beating).
I assume that pilots flying Patrol-Craft will use any possible tactics to avoid contact with enemy fighters - but, they should be easy pray once spotted.
Would in real life a US pilot have performed a patrol flight over -say- Truk on a blue sky day in 1942?

Thanks, for your thoughts on that...

It does happen - you can sometimes see it scroll across the bottom of the screen, but more likely you only discover it when looking at the Intel Reports.

Many players deliberately set their bombers to Naval Search in order to get through the UberCap in Standard (Vanilla) WITP...

In reality, search planes could and did get through relatively heavy defenses and hit targets - although not as often as the game might allow.

(in reply to CallMeFrank)

Post #: 2

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/10/2008 4:45:26 PM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallMeFrank

My question: what are the odds for planes perfoming Naval Search missions to run into enemy CAP and get shut down?

I can not remember any such events in my games so far. It wonders me to see my Catalinas spotting enemy TF in areas with strong enemy fighter CAP (my bombers that go after the spotted TFs get the beating).
I assume that pilots flying Patrol-Craft will use any possible tactics to avoid contact with enemy fighters - but, they should be easy pray once spotted.
Would in real life a US pilot have performed a patrol flight over -say- Truk on a blue sky day in 1942?

Thanks, for your thoughts on that...

It does happen - you can sometimes see it scroll across the bottom of the screen, but more likely you only discover it when looking at the Intel Reports.

Many players deliberately set their bombers to Naval Search in order to get through the UberCap in Standard (Vanilla) WITP...

In reality, search planes could and did get through relatively heavy defenses and hit targets - although not as often as the game might allow.

This gets really interesting when the bombers on search have experience in the 90s.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 3

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/10/2008 6:30:53 PM

Local Yokel

Posts: 1494
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Somerset, U.K.
Status: offline

As it happens, I've just lost a Type 97 flying boat operating out of Espiritu Santo to CAP from Enterprise. Well actually the unit is one aircraft short, but still has its full complement of pilots. So this bird evidently got her crew home before expiring

_____________________________

(in reply to CallMeFrank)

Post #: 4

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/10/2008 11:36:33 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

She probably just got lost in a poker game......

(in reply to Local Yokel)

Post #: 5

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/10/2008 11:53:01 PM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

Naw, I'll bet that she's moonlighting for M&M Enterprises.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 6

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 3:06:54 AM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

Planes engage in combat much more than people realize because it doesn't always show up on the replay. I think one of the quickest and easiest ways to track what's going on is to check the air combat losses screen and sort it by AC lost "today". I check it every round. If I see certain bombers getting lost in A to A more than I can account for in the replay then it's time to check naval search and recon settings

Incedintely I suspect a more op losses than people know are the result of A to A that doesn't show up on the replay. Fighters intecept the bomber, the bomber is damaged, but not destroyed during combat, but goes down on the way back to base.

_____________________________

Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to bradfordkay)

Post #: 7

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 11:47:05 AM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

Also recon mission are very often intercepted by CAP.
I have, in my game against Trollelite, a F-5 unit reconning Truk from Eniwetok...i tend to lose one F-5 every 4/5 missions due to his CAP!

However the only way to know it is to check the intel report

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to niceguy2005)

Post #: 8

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 2:54:31 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline

One thing you can do GH, is to vary the altitude setting for your recon. I like to jump between 35,000 and 15,000 feet. It seems to lessen the number of losses I take to my recon aircraft.

_____________________________

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)

Post #: 9

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 7:10:06 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

One thing you can do GH, is to vary the altitude setting for your recon. I like to jump between 35,000 and 15,000 feet. It seems to lessen the number of losses I take to my recon aircraft.

Yes, does lessen them, but doesn't eliminate them... i had some guys flying at max altitude (something like 42,000 feet - well above any IJ interceptors around the particular bases in late 1942) and they STILL would get shot down by CAP...

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 10

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 7:38:03 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

IIRC that is a known issue in the game. Off screen air to air can occur above aircraft ceilings. It's the old jet pack when no one looking ploy

_____________________________

Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 11

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/11/2008 9:42:21 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

IIRC that is a known issue in the game. Off screen air to air can occur above aircraft ceilings. It's the old jet pack when no one looking ploy

it USED to be if you were flying 50 feet above the max altitude of the enemy you were immune... i guess they fixed it so that enemy fighters carry flak guns to shoot at enemy 1.5 miles above them...

(in reply to niceguy2005)

Post #: 12

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/13/2008 10:16:14 PM

CallMeFrank

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/29/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

Thank you all for the infos.
The Aircraft Losses page somehow escaped my closer attention in the past... I found indeed some operational losses for my Catalinas.
I also increased the message delay time for the Resolution Phase and was rewarded to see a message of a Catalina hit by Flak.
BTW do you use the combat animations? I switched them off - it takes so long. (However, in the old PAC WAR it was kind of thrilling to see my planes attaking a ship and to hope for a ***** hit!) I only read the final combat reports. Do I miss valuable information that way?

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 13

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/13/2008 10:21:15 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Sure you do.� With animations on, you can actually tell the name of the air units attacking you.

Edit: and even if the unit is a fragment.....

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to CallMeFrank)

Post #: 14

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/27/2008 2:35:51 PM

Bogo Mil

Posts: 286
Joined: 1/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
it USED to be if you were flying 50 feet above the max altitude of the enemy you were immune... i guess they fixed it so that enemy fighters carry flak guns to shoot at enemy 1.5 miles above them...

Strange "fix". It is very realistic that you can not shoot down an enemy above your max altitude. Up there you can not do anything but flying straight, at optimum speed. The slightest manoeuvre will result in a loss of altitude. Even 1000 feet below max altitude it is difficult to get into a firing position. And then you have to handle the recoil...

(in reply to rtrapasso)

Post #: 15

RE: Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP - 2/27/2008 4:52:18 PM

rtrapasso

Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bogo Mil

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
it USED to be if you were flying 50 feet above the max altitude of the enemy you were immune... i guess they fixed it so that enemy fighters carry flak guns to shoot at enemy 1.5 miles above them...

Strange "fix". It is very realistic that you can not shoot down an enemy above your max altitude. Up there you can not do anything but flying straight, at optimum speed. The slightest manoeuvre will result in a loss of altitude. Even 1000 feet below max altitude it is difficult to get into a firing position. And then you have to handle the recoil...

There was some talk about this a while back... someone came up with an example of some German ace getting nailed over North Africa by an Allied pilot some distance below him... the attacker nosed up, put his plane into a stall and nailed the German airplane.

It did happen, and certainly could happen if someone was just 50 feet above your max altitude (which was what had been the problem before.)

(in reply to Bogo Mil)

Post #: 16

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Naval Search Missions vs enemy CAP

Page: [1]