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RE: The air war - 2/17/2008 6:35:23 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Oh boy - I would declare "strategic emergency" !!!

Try to fly in a spare division from Rangoon if you can. Send more divisions to Burma if you can. Start bringing 50K+ supply to Rangoon each month - or double that or double it again if you can. You'll need it.

Launch a few small bombing missions on the monster stack to see if it is really 25 divisions or a bunch of junk.



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Post #: 271
RE: The air war - 2/17/2008 6:43:34 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Oh boy - I would declare "strategic emergency" !!!

Try to fly in a spare division from Rangoon if you can. Send more divisions to Burma if you can. Start bringing 50K+ supply to Rangoon each month - or double that or double it again if you can. You'll need it.

Launch a few small bombing missions on the monster stack to see if it is really 25 divisions or a bunch of junk.




The convoy that just arrived at Akyab carries one division, two artillery units (one of which is that huge artillery brigade) and 17k of supplies. Ive also just reinforced the minefield at Akyab so it now has 1500+ mines. Do you think I should move another division in from Java?



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 272
RE: The air war - 2/17/2008 6:46:15 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Oh, btw, two of those units are the 18th and 2nd UK division, so its definitively not just a piece of junk...

quote:


Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 2nd UK Division
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 18th UK Division


_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 273
RE: The air war - 2/18/2008 6:26:53 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Do you think I should move another division in from Java?




Absolutely ... with a level-6 fort you don't want to get outnumbered by more than 2 to 1 ... and that stack probably has at least 4 divisions, maybe 4 brigades and a pile of arty and some armor, so to meet that you need at least 2 Divisions, 2 Bdes and your own pile of Arty. Another possibility, if you have the urge, is to consider invasion of India, if he is really stripping all the defense out of India and sending to Burma. But moving more units into the Theater and getting more recon on that stack are certainly in order. If Burma falls, the SRA comes within 4EB range pretty quickly. You can also try to lay on some bombardments of Akyab to hit his troops. I didn't get great results with this - but it serves as another distraction and might help if he attacks the same turn.

Of course, he also threatens in the Timor area and the Thursday Island area. Any quick path to the SRA or the Home Islands, would be priorities!


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Post #: 274
RE: The air war - 2/18/2008 10:32:12 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Suddenly a wormhole appears that distorts the space/time continuum. We are taken back two days in time.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 275
RE: The air war - 2/18/2008 12:02:19 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund


Do you think I should move another division in from Java?




Absolutely ... with a level-6 fort you don't want to get outnumbered by more than 2 to 1 ... and that stack probably has at least 4 divisions, maybe 4 brigades and a pile of arty and some armor, so to meet that you need at least 2 Divisions, 2 Bdes and your own pile of Arty. Another possibility, if you have the urge, is to consider invasion of India, if he is really stripping all the defense out of India and sending to Burma. But moving more units into the Theater and getting more recon on that stack are certainly in order. If Burma falls, the SRA comes within 4EB range pretty quickly. You can also try to lay on some bombardments of Akyab to hit his troops. I didn't get great results with this - but it serves as another distraction and might help if he attacks the same turn.

Of course, he also threatens in the Timor area and the Thursday Island area. Any quick path to the SRA or the Home Islands, would be priorities!



Ok, Im moving in another division from Java. Im also considering moving in the majority of the combined fleet into the area. My fleet is almost done with the repair/upgrade program in Japan, and if I want I can dispatch the full might of the combined fleet into the Bay of Bengal.

I am somewhat pressed to find more land units though. I have 2 divisions on Timor, 2 around Port Moresby, one at Noumea, and three in the central pacific.

Perhaps this is the time to launch a feint into India. Like you say, if he is coming with 25 units towards Akyab, then he cannot have very much garrisson units at Ceylon or in lower India. At the same time I can bring 8 BBs, 8 CVs, 5 CAs, 30 DDs into this area within two weeks...all this while his Carriers are messing around in the Sydney area.



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 276
Battle over Akyab - 2/19/2008 10:55:29 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/18/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Akyab , at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
A6M3 Zero x 16
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 58

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 80
CW-22 Falcon x 1
P-40E Warhawk x 101
Hurricane IIc x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 11 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 5 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 44 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 60 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 24 destroyed, 53 damaged
Hurricane IIc: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged

The day starts with a huge dogfight over Akyab. A battle that I win.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
A6M3 Zero x 16
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 32

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 2
Wellington III x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 2 damaged
Wellington III: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
PG Eifuku Maru
PG Uji, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

As we can see, my CAP is still i the air, while the RAF attacks are scattered and piecemeal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
A6M3 Zero x 16
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 31

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 28
Beaufort I x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 10 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 6 destroyed, 16 damaged
Beaufort I: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Natori
AP Kyokusei Maru, Torpedo hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Beaufort I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Eihuku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Natori, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Kyokusei Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kasui Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Miyadono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Meiyo Maru
AP Tamatsu Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

Here things are starting to look weird. 26 Wellingtons, unescorted Wellingtons penetrate the CAP of 30+ fighters without losses.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 6
A-20B Boston x 3
B-26B Marauder x 25
IL-4c x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Natori, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Satsuma Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Zenyo Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire
AP Manila Maru
MSW Fumi Maru #2, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Sanko Maru

Japanese ground losses:
87 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
2 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet

And here, 40 bombers penetrate the same CAP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34
A6M3 Zero x 16
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 25

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 3

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
MSW W.14

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

Apparently no strike is too small. Here 3 bombers penetrate a defensive cap of 70 fighers. This is in the afternoon btw.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34
A6M3 Zero x 16
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 25

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 14
Wellington III x 51
P-40E Warhawk x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M3 Zero: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 2 destroyed, 10 damaged
Wellington III: 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Oigawa Maru, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
AK Totai Maru, Bomb hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
AK Bichu Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Kennichi Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Takegawa Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AK Tsukikawa Maru
AK Yuki Maru
PC Ch 17

Japanese ground losses:
108 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

And while this strike was escorted, I find it somewhat odd to see such complete impotency of the defensive CAP against the bombers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
A6M3 Zero x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 23

Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Katori Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet

10 Bostons penetrate a defensive CAP of 70 fighters without losses? Why not.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
A6M3 Zero x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 23

Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
A-20B Boston: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Hitora Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet

Again...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
A6M3 Zero x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 23

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 damaged


Japanese Ships
AK Suez Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

Does anyone really believe these results? 3 Wellingtons vs 70 fighters. Result, one damaged fighter and a Wellington scoring two hits on a transport.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
A6M3 Zero x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 27

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 3
Wellington III x 72
P-40E Warhawk x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Wellington III: 37 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 7 destroyed

Japanese Ships
AP Meiyo Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Oridono Maru, Bomb hits 2
AP Kasui Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Maya Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Satsuma Maru, on fire
AP Eihuku Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AP Karachi Maru, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AP Meikai Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP Keisho Maru
AP Seizan Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nowaki
AP Kaifuku Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tamatsu Maru

Japanese ground losses:
77 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
1 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

Ok, here we get an airbattle at least. And the impotence of the Japanese fighters present itself again. 37 damaged bombers, not one shot down...all manage to bomb their targets as if it was a milkrun against some deserted island.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 7
A-20B Boston x 7
B-26B Marauder x 6
IL-4c x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 4 damaged
A-20B Boston: 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged
IL-4c: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki
PC Ch 12
AP Miyadono Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

And the final attack of the day.



All in all I am very pleased with the actions of my airforce. I have shot down over 200 allied aircraft at the loss of something like 70 of mine. I also lost 50 on the ground, but I dont count these since the pilots survived.

The RAF in India must be in very bad shape now. They have lost 120 Hurricanes, 20 Spitfires, 50 P40s...all shot down over enemy territory, meaning the pilots are dead or captured.

My losses have been severe, all my remaining fighter wings are 50% operational 50% damaged. Those who were at Akyab have 4-10 operational aircraft.

BUT

The convoy got through, I have unloaded the 48th Division and I have refilled the minefield. I have enough supply at the base. The cost will be something like 100 fighters and maybe a dozen transports. Its a price I have to pay.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 277
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 10:40:05 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Well, this is it, I am ordering a strategic emergency. I have spotted 27 units now, right next to Akyab. That should mean they arrived in that hex today, and that should also mean that I have 10-15 days before they arrive at the base.

I have ordered the 5th Division to embark their ships at Batavia for transport to Rangoon. I am also pulling back the 4th from Tarawa. I will need them in this theater instead. The Combined Fleet has been given orders to leave port and rebase to Singapore. At Sasebo I have the elements of the fleet that are finished with their repairs and upgrades, but I am also sending the rest of the ships to Singapore. With the exception of the Zuikaku who needs to finish her repairs first.

This will mark the beginning of the first major defensive battle of the war. I will not yield the base at Akyab without a fight.





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 278
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 10:51:26 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Related to this.

I have not spotted the US CVs since their little raid on Gilli Gilli about two weeks ago. They were heading south after that, and I actually spotted them from Noumea.

Maybe the CVs are taking the route south of Australia to join the battle. There are some effects of cource. If he does move his CVs to the Indian Ocean, I will know for sure that there wont be any invasion in the central pacific for a while. On the other hand, I am in no position to attack anything in the central pacific anyway, so he is not exactly stripping himself of his defences either.

I am bringing the entire Combined Fleet into the Indian Ocean now. For this to work I need to keep the Malacca straits sub-free for the duration of these operations. I cannot have a bunch of subs there giving him free intel and taking the occational torpedo shot on my ships. Im bringing in my best ASW units from the interior shipping lines, and Im moving all my ASW aircraft to patrol the area between Singapore and Rangoon.

I have not seen a single RAF airplane in the past two days. It seems he has retired his airforce to the interior of India to rest and refit after the battle of Akyab. Im not sure whether this is good or bad, but at least I have been able to unload my convoy at Akyab now.

I believe he will mount a serious surface raid somewhere in this area. Most likely target is of cource Andaman Island, but another possible target is the base at the northern tip of Sumatra.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 279
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 2:09:47 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/20/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Thursday Island at 49,90

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M3 Zero x 26
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 79

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 26 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Bomb hits 8, on fire
DD Kari
CL Kitakami, Bomb hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kamo, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
79 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Thursday Island at 49,90

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3 Zero x 28
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 8 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 11 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Nissyu Maru
AK Ryoka Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Mejima Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Tatuno Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Thursday Island at 49,90

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3 Zero x 28
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 16 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Onoe Maru
MSW Tama Maru #3, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Kasii Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet


I am going to ask him if he is willing to discuss a houserule now. A houserule that puts an end to these insane 4-engine naval attacks from 6000 feet. Because this is just stupid.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 280
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 2:30:23 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Just a thought, Panzerjaeger - why couldn't you just pull out and let him take Akyab? Within 5 months it'll be completey indefensible through his larger army, better airpower and likely naval bombardments. Those divisions might be better on some of your Pacific rim defences in order to make US island hopping more costly.

I'm saying this because my opponent has a habbit of landing a significant number of troops at Akyab at the begining of a game and thus not giving me the chance to take it without any resistance. This generally becomes the focal point of my strategy and forces me into invading India.

In a recent game I've started, Im seriously considering ignoring Akyab altogether and focusing on other targets. You can't really defend everything...

Just my 2 cents!

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 281
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 2:53:34 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		As I see it the problem with abandoning Akyab is the following.

1) Rangoon is inside RAF fighter range. Mandalay and Pagan are in normal Spitfire range. That means I cannot defend anything in Burma against airstrikes anymore. Right now he cannot reach Rangoon with fighters, that is extremely valuable.

2) With Akyab gone, all Japanese bases north of Rangoon becomes in danger of being encircled. If he can march down and take Akyab, he can dump supply into the base and just keep marching south.

3) He is committed to Akyab now. If I can defend here, I will have pinned his offensive capabilities in Burma for a long time. Even if he wants to retreat later, it is a two month march back to the railline, and then more months of R&R. He has committed to this offensive, and it is a very binary offensive. Just a large stack advancing along a straight line. No encirclements, no tactical manuevers, just straight on. That makes it extremely easy to defend against.

4) What is the point of leaving Akyab? I will just be faced with the same alternatives at Rangoon, or Victoria Point, or any other given base along that coastline.

I know he will throw his full airforce at Akyab, and he will throw the RN at it too. But that is a good thing, it means I know where he will be. As long as he is committed to Akyab, I can defend all of southeast asia more easily. There are 27 units coming down that trail, it would have been far worse had it been 15 here and 15 at Mandalay. Then I would have to defend more positions, now I can focus.

Im sending in the entire Combined Fleet. His RN units will not have anything to put up against that force. That means I will own the Bay of Bengal, and that means it is my BBs and CAs that will bombard his troops at Akyab, not the other way around.


_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 282
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 2:59:33 PM   
jumper

 

Posts: 489
Joined: 2/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

Just a thought, Panzerjaeger - why couldn't you just pull out and let him take Akyab? Within 5 months it'll be completey indefensible through his larger army, better airpower and likely naval bombardments. Those divisions might be better on some of your Pacific rim defences in order to make US island hopping more costly.

I'm saying this because my opponent has a habbit of landing a significant number of troops at Akyab at the begining of a game and thus not giving me the chance to take it without any resistance. This generally becomes the focal point of my strategy and forces me into invading India.

In a recent game I've started, Im seriously considering ignoring Akyab altogether and focusing on other targets. You can't really defend everything...

Just my 2 cents!


It wouldn´t solve anything. In a month or two, he would just face those 28 units somewhere else. Akyab is a good place to fight for. Jungle hex in malaria zone with good fort level is not an easy target. And he can´t just surround it, as it would take a few months of marching through wilderness. PH can gain a lot of time and even if Akyab falls, he is not loosing anything important (if he will be able to safe the troops).

(in reply to fcam1387)
Post #: 283
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 4:30:23 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

As I see it the problem with abandoning Akyab is the following.

1) Rangoon is inside RAF fighter range. Mandalay and Pagan are in normal Spitfire range. That means I cannot defend anything in Burma against airstrikes anymore. Right now he cannot reach Rangoon with fighters, that is extremely valuable.

2) With Akyab gone, all Japanese bases north of Rangoon becomes in danger of being encircled. If he can march down and take Akyab, he can dump supply into the base and just keep marching south.

3) He is committed to Akyab now. If I can defend here, I will have pinned his offensive capabilities in Burma for a long time. Even if he wants to retreat later, it is a two month march back to the railline, and then more months of R&R. He has committed to this offensive, and it is a very binary offensive. Just a large stack advancing along a straight line. No encirclements, no tactical manuevers, just straight on. That makes it extremely easy to defend against.

4) What is the point of leaving Akyab? I will just be faced with the same alternatives at Rangoon, or Victoria Point, or any other given base along that coastline.

I know he will throw his full airforce at Akyab, and he will throw the RN at it too. But that is a good thing, it means I know where he will be. As long as he is committed to Akyab, I can defend all of southeast asia more easily. There are 27 units coming down that trail, it would have been far worse had it been 15 here and 15 at Mandalay. Then I would have to defend more positions, now I can focus.

Im sending in the entire Combined Fleet. His RN units will not have anything to put up against that force. That means I will own the Bay of Bengal, and that means it is my BBs and CAs that will bombard his troops at Akyab, not the other way around.



In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.

PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.

I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.

Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!


_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 284
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 6:27:08 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Looks like there wont be any houserule regarding min alt for 4-engined bombers on naval attack. This is the reply I got when I asked if he would consider discussing such a houserule.

quote:


As soon as I get my B-24s I will have a min alt for all 4Es on nav attack of 10.000 which means starting in 10/42. If that´s okay for you. Like I said, at the moment I have those B-17s that you see at Thursday Island with reduced bomb load but a very very high exp after 9 months of war. And that´s it, no more 4Es on the whole map. They are a pain in the ass for you there but I don´t get why you park your cruisers for two weeks there, just waiting to get bombed. If I put my cruisers for two weeks 8 hexes away from 90 Betties would you feel for me? And 40 Allied fighters wouldn´t stop 90 Betties either (all Betties with the looong discussed torpedo availability). Kitakami sunk but your heavy cruiser was 500lb bomb prove anyway (which he shouldn’t be). Those bombers had two weeks such a low morale (and most of them were damaged) that they never launched, today was their first attack again, even though they were set to nav attack all the time, so IMO you had plenty of time to place your ships elsewhere, no?


Bolded the part I found amusing.




_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 285
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 6:39:43 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		The reason the cruisers are there btw, is to protect cargo ships unloading supplies. Im sure Castor would prefer if I didnt escort my cargo ships so he could raid my ports with his DDs, but there you have it.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 286
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 9:45:27 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.

PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.

I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.

Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!



Well, it looks like something similar might be happening here. I dont know what all the 27 units are, but I have ID'ed both the 18th and 2nd UK Divisions, so its definitively "for real".

Right now Im bringing in everything I can. Ive got the 5th Div arriving in the theater in a week, Im not sure wether to land it directly into Akyab or to land it at Rangoon. Im also brining in the 4th from Tarawa, it should arrive in a month. Im thinking Im going to use the 4th as garrison for Andaman, Sabang and Victoria Point.

The entire Combined Fleet is also coming into the theater. The first units should arrive at Singapore within a week. Perhaps I will run the SA-2 convoy with them. If I do, then I should be able to land another division at Akyab before he arrives with his monster stack. It will be bloody though.

Right now Ive got all my transport planes flying in troops to Akyab. Im flying in an engineer regiment and the 15th army HQ from Rangoon, and Im flying in the 4th mixed brigade from Mandalay. At the same time I have 4 tank regiments moving up the trail. 33rd and Imperial Guards divisions are defending Mandalay and Mytikina respectively.

In the central pacific, I doubt he will dare to try anything. I think I broke his will for a great naval invasion when he lost his CV and BBs. I think he will be more likely to move his naval units into the Indian Ocean.

Meanwhile, he will mount serious land bomber offensives against Timor and Port Moresby, it is not unlikely at all that he will do his invasions here instead. Here he can land under LBA and land based fighter cover (once the P-38s arrive).

So is that plausible? CVs and naval units go to the Indian Ocean, while the first invasions come from Australia to Timor or Port Moresby?

In that case, I should probably move 21st Division from Noumea and put it in Gilli Gilli instead. That means I basically give up Noumea without a fight...



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 287
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 9:49:22 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Another wonderful day for the airforce...




AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/22/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lautem at 33,78

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 31
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 15

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 5
B-26B Marauder x 33

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 11 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 3 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Hikade Maru
AK Asosan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire
APD APD-34, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet


What is there to say? I intercept his bombers. I have an altitude advantage. My fighter pilots are all veterans. The bombers are not particularily heavy armored. The results?

Sigh...I dont know what to do. I cant stop his bombers, I cant even damage or disrupt them...they just fly through and bomb the target.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 2/20/2008 9:50:54 PM >

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 288
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 11:48:28 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I think I managed to sink two subs today. All in the effort to clear the way between Rangoon and Singapore.

I have almost completed the airlift of 15th Army HQ to Akyab, the remaining elements should arrive tomorrow. The Combined Fleet is passing the Phillipines on its way to the combat area.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/23/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru

Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 27,33

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru

Allied Ships
SS Permit, hits 3, on fire

Permit suffers a real and penetrating hit. She will probably make it to port, but at least she wont be in my shipping lanes for the next 3-4 months.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 28,32

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 9
PC Ch 8
PC Ch 7
PG Kure Maru #5
PG Keiko Maru
PG Chohakusan Maru

Allied Ships
SS KVII, hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

The Dutch sub later sinks. As you can see I am doing a concentrated ASW effort off Rangoon. I have several ASW TFs, as well as roughly one hundred bombers on ASW duty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 30,29

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 16
A6M3 Zero x 30
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 4 damaged

Well, I managed to prevent an attack for once. It probably helped that I outnumbered him 15 to 1.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 8
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 8

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 3
B-26B Marauder x 22
IL-4c x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 3 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 damaged
IL-4c: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Kure Maru #5
PC Ch 9

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 6000 feet

The morale of the Marauder unit must be in shambles, they suffered a single aircraft damaged, and the entire BG turned back. Good.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,91


Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 62


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Nissyu Maru, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tokuho Maru #5
AK Tatuno Maru, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-25C Mitchell bombing at 6000 feet

Off Thursday Island.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 53,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 6
A6M3 Zero x 52
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 22

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 damaged
A6M3 Zero: 21 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed, 27 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Bomb hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
1 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 10000 feet

I find this rather interesting. In our mail conversation I said that if Castor believes it is ok to use 4-engined bombers on naval attack below 10k, then he can continue to use them like that.

...I guess he doesnt think its ok.

Today to my great surprise I managed to shoot down a couple of bombers. I cant wait for the B-29 menace...that must be twice as depressing as this.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 289
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/20/2008 11:50:44 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		as for units on the trail, I have now identified the following:

2nd UK Div
18th UK Div
2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
1st Burma Rifles Brigade
14th Indian Division

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 290
RE: The air war - 2/21/2008 1:35:38 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I have decided to pull back the larger combat forces from the outer perimiter. I will leave the odd regiment and brigade here and there, but the divisions will be moved from the outer perimiter (Johnston Island, Tarawa, Noumea) and rebase to the inner (Saipan, Timor, Rangoon). This move will take a few months to complete, but I am dispatching the transports now.

Meanwhile, a disturbing realization hit me today. His Wellingtons are using 1000 lbs bombs. That means they are a danger to my capital ships as well as my transports and lighter escorts. Something will have to be done about this before I dare to venture with the Combined Fleet deep into the Bay of Bengal.



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 08/24/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 29,30

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 7
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 20

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged

Japanese Ships
PG Chosa Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Wellington III bombing at 6000 feet

This attack was with 1000lbs bombs. I dont know what is more frightening...that he has these bombs in the first place, or that his pilots managed to hit a small PG with them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Chandpur at 30,25

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Cromer, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Maryborough, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet

This should force him to think twice about basing so close to my bases. The Vals sink one MSW and damage the other. Recon tells me there is a BB at Chandpur. I wonder if its true. He knows I have a CD gun unit at Akyab, so that might be the reason for him to bring his BBs so close to my bases. But one thing that he doesnt know is that the 8th Heavy Artillery Brigade is also at Akyab. They have some 240mm guns that should be able to force even a BB or CA to think twice about approaching the base.

I have 1200 mines and three artillery units at Akyab, and I hope that is enough to prevent him from trying to bombard the base. Meanwhile, the Combined Fleet are currently off Manilla, still enroute to Singapore.



_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 291
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 4:47:53 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
In my game with Moses (I was Japanese). Akyab was one of the focal points of the whole map. I did take it on roughly the historical timeframe. But immediately - summer 1942 - it became the primary target for Moses India based air. I used fighters in Burma - about 1 fighter unit at each base - to provide a distraction for his fighters and bombers. Trading fighter planes and pilots for damage to my units at Akyab. Until summer 1943, this tactic worked well. I also sent in, unit after unit to Burma to match his LCU build up at Akyab. With his focus on Akyab, it has made my defense easier. I doubt I can hold forever, but my overall strategy is to lose everywhere at about the same meaningful pace. That is he cannot bomb the SRA or the home islands from one area - significantly sooner than he can from another.

PzH has significant breathing space in the SOPAC area. A "smoke and mirrors" defense will probably hold up castor for most of the next 18 months and still castor will not be threatening either the SRA or the home islands directly along that Axis. So the Aleutians, NewGuinea, Timor, China and Burma are the key areas, these are the places that if lost soon will enable strategic bombing of resources, oil, heaevy industry, etc. The targets that will dramtically reduce Japan's resistence.

I kept a major surface force (with the Kongo's) at Rangoon and used this force to bombard Akyab. I also kept all four of the at start minelaying subs at Rangoon. I was able to sustain about a 2500 point mine field. This field has sunk a number of warhips, largest being a cruiser. I also kept Betty/Nell and escorts at Rangoon. I have the 14ID at Andaman. Keeping full control of the Gulf of Martaban is essential to the defense of Burma. I've also built up Nicobar and Sabang and dug in fully at Moulmein, Tavoy and Victoria's point. All these bases must be held to support the AK supply line to Rangoon. I made regular (monthly at least) devlieries of 50K or more supply to Rangoon. Allied bombing chews up your supply very quickly.

Abandoning AKYAB seems to undermine the whole defense of burma unless you can hold on the road behind the river. I just worried whether I could do that. If I had a couple of divisions I could sit there for a year to let them dig in then maybe. But whenever I got two divisions it seemed better to send them forward to prevent AKYAB from falling in the first place!



Well, it looks like something similar might be happening here. I dont know what all the 27 units are, but I have ID'ed both the 18th and 2nd UK Divisions, so its definitively "for real".

Right now Im bringing in everything I can. Ive got the 5th Div arriving in the theater in a week, Im not sure wether to land it directly into Akyab or to land it at Rangoon. Im also brining in the 4th from Tarawa, it should arrive in a month. Im thinking Im going to use the 4th as garrison for Andaman, Sabang and Victoria Point.

The entire Combined Fleet is also coming into the theater. The first units should arrive at Singapore within a week. Perhaps I will run the SA-2 convoy with them. If I do, then I should be able to land another division at Akyab before he arrives with his monster stack. It will be bloody though.

Right now Ive got all my transport planes flying in troops to Akyab. Im flying in an engineer regiment and the 15th army HQ from Rangoon, and Im flying in the 4th mixed brigade from Mandalay. At the same time I have 4 tank regiments moving up the trail. 33rd and Imperial Guards divisions are defending Mandalay and Mytikina respectively.

In the central pacific, I doubt he will dare to try anything. I think I broke his will for a great naval invasion when he lost his CV and BBs. I think he will be more likely to move his naval units into the Indian Ocean.

Meanwhile, he will mount serious land bomber offensives against Timor and Port Moresby, it is not unlikely at all that he will do his invasions here instead. Here he can land under LBA and land based fighter cover (once the P-38s arrive).

So is that plausible? CVs and naval units go to the Indian Ocean, while the first invasions come from Australia to Timor or Port Moresby?

In that case, I should probably move 21st Division from Noumea and put it in Gilli Gilli instead. That means I basically give up Noumea without a fight...




(1) I few in a whole division (55ID) from Rangoon to Akyab - and Moses was cover capping with P-38s. It can be done. But it will wear out your transport force - and I used a big bunch of the army transports (Topsey's) to do it.

(2) You should probably plan for 4 divisions, 4 brigades, 4 arty and 4 construction engineers as your garrison. Also build up the forts as much as you can.

(3) Building up around Timor and Western New Guinea is also key. Dig, dig, dig and make as many L4 airbases (betty bases) as you can. The more nearby supporting bases you have the harder it is for him to knock them all out at the same time. You need to pick a line like Hollandia and really build up all your bases West of there. The route to the SRA through Northern New Guinea is just as dangerous as the others. And the "beak" at Vogelkpf needs plenty of engineer attention as well. Can't have too many engineers. Use your big Independent Engineer Regiments for the priority jobs and single BF + Construction units for lower priority tasks.

(4) In CENPAC I would expect him to move big time once he knows KB is in Bengal. That's why he should be keeping his carriers on the US side of the map. But we will see. The tough thing about playing Moses was that he managed to put his emotions aside and always try to do the optimal thing for the Allies, every turn. I don't know Castor's style, but unless I know my opponent well, I try to avoid under-estimating. But even if he does come out. Your Betty's can keep him honest. Your "stop line" is the Marianas. Might as well start digging in at Tinian (the clear hex) now!

(5) Giving up Noumea without a fight? Well without KB around you can't fight for it anyway, so you might as well cut your losses.

(6) I defended one hex west down the trail from Mandalay myself. Letting him sit on Mandalay allows Mychina to be cut-off. I put one division and one AAA unit on the trail. His bombers hit the AAA unit quite a lot! Actually had to rotate it out and replace it with another.

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 292
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 6:46:07 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

as for units on the trail, I have now identified the following:

2nd UK Div
18th UK Div
2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
1st Burma Rifles Brigade
14th Indian Division


Update


Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 1st Burma Rifles Brigade
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 254th Indian Tank Brigade
Ki-15 Babs takes recon photos of 2nd Burma Rifles Brigade
Ki-46-II Dinah takes recon photos of 14th Indian Division

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 293
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 6:55:29 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

(1) I few in a whole division (55ID) from Rangoon to Akyab - and Moses was cover capping with P-38s. It can be done. But it will wear out your transport force - and I used a big bunch of the army transports (Topsey's) to do it.


Well, actually I have managed to fly in the 4th Mixed brigade in little over four days. Now Im starting to fly in a regiment from the 33rd Division. So, during the past week I have reinforced Akyab with
15th Army HQ
21st Engineer Regiment
4th Mixed Brigade

Im at fort level 6 and 80% towards 7. Today Im going to try a bombing mission to see what it looks like.

quote:


(2) You should probably plan for 4 divisions, 4 brigades, 4 arty and 4 construction engineers as your garrison. Also build up the forts as much as you can.

At Akyab? All that at Akyab?

quote:


(3) Building up around Timor and Western New Guinea is also key. Dig, dig, dig and make as many L4 airbases (betty bases) as you can. The more nearby supporting bases you have the harder it is for him to knock them all out at the same time. You need to pick a line like Hollandia and really build up all your bases West of there. The route to the SRA through Northern New Guinea is just as dangerous as the others. And the "beak" at Vogelkpf needs plenty of engineer attention as well. Can't have too many engineers. Use your big Independent Engineer Regiments for the priority jobs and single BF + Construction units for lower priority tasks.


Well, Ive got all my engineer units at various digging locations right now. I have three in the Aleutians, three at Gilli Gilli, and the rest in Burma. But I'll bring the Aleutian-gang down south and put them to work on Saipan/Guam/Tinian.

quote:


(4) In CENPAC I would expect him to move big time once he knows KB is in Bengal. That's why he should be keeping his carriers on the US side of the map. But we will see. The tough thing about playing Moses was that he managed to put his emotions aside and always try to do the optimal thing for the Allies, every turn. I don't know Castor's style, but unless I know my opponent well, I try to avoid under-estimating. But even if he does come out. Your Betty's can keep him honest. Your "stop line" is the Marianas. Might as well start digging in at Tinian (the clear hex) now!


Im trying not to underestimate him, but his move with the CVs up the coast of Australia directly into harms way off Thursday Island makes it hard. He used the same CVs very recklessly just two weeks later when he used them for a completely pointless raid deep inside Betty-territory again.

edit
Actually I should clarify that. I believe it is the other way around. I believe he is underestimating me, and that has caused him to make several misstakes. He let a huge part of his navy be caught at Darwin, he put all his CVs at risk at Thursday Island... I think that might be more about him underestimating me, than him being a bad player.


Now, I havent seen the CVs since then, so I guess he is up to something...I dont know what it is, but either an invasion in the south or central pacific, or the Indian Ocean are the best bets I think.

quote:


(5) Giving up Noumea without a fight? Well without KB around you can't fight for it anyway, so you might as well cut your losses.

Yeah, Ill leave some nav guards and some base forces etc to give the impression of a defence, but the big units will go to New Guniea instead.

quote:


(6) I defended one hex west down the trail from Mandalay myself. Letting him sit on Mandalay allows Mychina to be cut-off. I put one division and one AAA unit on the trail. His bombers hit the AAA unit quite a lot! Actually had to rotate it out and replace it with another.


Well, Ive got a tank regiment up at the bend of the railline between Mandalay and Mychina, so I should spot him if he is trying to come down that trail. But it seems all of his army is marching down the trail towards Akyab.

I wonder what his defences at Ceylon looks like right now... do you think that is an idea I should entertain? Ive got the 4th Div coming in from Tarawa in about a month, should I try something funny with them, or just use them to boost the defences?


< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 2/21/2008 7:00:26 PM >

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Post #: 294
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 8:26:46 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Ok, today I rechecked Akyab.
Lvl 7 forts
1250 AV
12000 supplies (more coming in)

What is required to break that? How will the allied divisions look fatigue and morale-wise after marching all the way to Akyab? What is their likely supply status?

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
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Post #: 295
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 11:01:58 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Level-7 is good ... level-9 is perfect!

Well if you get really lucky, maybe his giant stack (I call such stacks "telephone poles" from the old days where we actually had physical counters moving around) will arrive piece-meal and you can attack a piece of it right after it arrives. But I wouldn't count on that. If it all arrives together, I still doubt you could attack it he will get the Jungle terrain. And if he can guess when he will arrive he might bomb your troops anyway or at least have some of his airfarce of ground attack - so your attack would pull them in.

So you're probably best off on passive defense as far as LCU at Akyab are concerned.

The more supply you have at Rangoon, the more will get pulled forward. Same for him at his closet bases. He should be building up his forward supply with massive regular convoys.

===

As to Ceylon, or even Madras. If you're bring KB, you might as well go over there and have a look. Put your Alf's and maybe some of your Jake's on recon and they should tell you something about the land defenses. If you see some stacks with short sizes (1-2) then you might have a target!

You can also try to run some bombardments against his troops at Akyab, I did a bunch but didn't have much luck.

===

keep track of how many divisions and brigades you see in that stack, but based on unit count and that fact that you have seen it full of divided units, I guess it was a darn strong stack. And if it is 7 or more divisions and 7 or more brigades with supporting troops then yes, you'll need every bit of that garrison I laid out.

==

What is he targeting right now at Akyab and is he bombing anything else in Burma?





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Post #: 296
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/21/2008 11:04:49 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Heh... "Telephone poles"... Don't remind me, Joe...

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Post #: 297
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/22/2008 2:12:53 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		BTW if you can bomb a few of the units in his giant stack it might help throw off the timing of their arrival.

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Post #: 298
Ride to the sound of the guns! - 2/22/2008 10:26:41 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		The cavalry has arrived at Singapore. Now, ride to the sound of the guns!






After the upgrades, I have plenty of radar cover for my TFs.

The KB is escorted by 3 radar equipped DDs, the two surface combat TFs have one each.

For once, I have adequate AAA aswell. I believe the KB has over 6000 in flak value. Might not be much by US standards, but its about three times as much as you start out with.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 2/22/2008 10:55:42 AM >

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 299
RE: Battle over Akyab - 2/22/2008 11:20:40 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
What is he targeting right now at Akyab and is he bombing anything else in Burma?



Right now he isnt doing anything. Recon flights, no defensive CAP over his bases, no strikes on my bases. Calm before the storm no doubt, but I also think he suffered heavily in the convoy battles a week ago. I have spotted some capital ships at Chandpur, but they are not doing any raids.

I believe he is massing for an all-out attack on the airfield at Akyab. At the same time I believe he fears my bases. In almost all of his emails he keep complaining about how powerful the Japanese AAA is, so he has an enormous respect for that. Since I know this, Im pouring in AAA to my bases, I have 4-5 AA units at all bases in Burma...except, ironically...Akyab, where I only have one. I have more coming up the trail, but they will not arrive before his stack does.

So, my bet is the following will happen.
He will launch a huge shore bombardment attack on Akyab. The same day he will launch a massive airstrike at the base.

To counter that, Im moving in the Combined Fleet. I will move 5th Division directly to Akyab, they are currently three days out from Rangoon. They will wait for the fleet, and then they will sail together under the protective CAP of the KB. Once the 5th Div arrives, I will have over 1600 AV at akyab and they should be at fort lvl 8 by that time.


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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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