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Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 8:33:27 AM

WhiteOwl

Posts: 121
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From: Sydney, Australia
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Hi,

I've got a couple of questions regarding combat.

1. Is there a difference between attacking with one unit with, say, 40 rifle, and 2 units with 20 rifle each?
2. Is flanking modelled at all? i.e. if I attack with 2 units from the same hex or from 2 different hexes, is there a difference?

Cheers

Post #: 1

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 11:43:29 AM

Herode_2

Posts: 188
Joined: 10/30/2007
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1 and 2 share the same answer : 2*20 = 40, hence you have the same strength (provided both units have the same XPs/Rdn/HQBonus and so on...). But 2 units can attack from 2 different hexes. The more hexes you attack from, the more bonus you get. All stats about these rules shall be found in the manual

< Message edited by Herode2 -- 2/23/2008 11:45:54 AM >

(in reply to WhiteOwl)

Post #: 2

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 1:11:57 PM

WhiteOwl

Posts: 121
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From: Sydney, Australia
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Thanks for helping! I looked in the manual for "flank" and couldn't find anything there. Are yuo talking about the concentric attack? If so, all it means that we can use more than one direction to get more attackers, but that isn't a real flanking attack in the sense that you don't get a bonus for attacking from the flank. Is my understanding correct?

Thanks

(in reply to Herode_2)

Post #: 3

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 1:30:19 PM

Herode_2

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Yes, it's concentric attack and it has both advantages :
1 - you can split your attacking forces in several hexes, thus negating the crowding penalty on thses hexes
2 - AND you have the concentric bonus on your stats, which simulates flanking attack advantage. Bonus is (nb_hexes-1)*50%, thus ranging from 0% (one hex attack) to 250% (attackers entirely surround the defenders)

(in reply to WhiteOwl)

Post #: 4

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 2:33:35 PM

WhiteOwl

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From: Sydney, Australia
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Thanks, I re-read that section of the manual, and that makes more sense now.

I appreciate your help.

Cheers

(in reply to Herode_2)

Post #: 5

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 4:51:47 PM

Joshuatree

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From: Netherlands
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Herode2 is right, more hexes you attack from = better. Especially from the rear area! Say you attack one hex = no bonus, two hexes next to each other = 10% bonus, but if you attack from two hexes opposite from each other = 50% bonus.
So surround, cut off from supply, art. attack and air attack, then multiple attack directions = succes

Well, most of the time

(in reply to WhiteOwl)

Post #: 6

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 4:55:50 PM

WhiteOwl

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From: Sydney, Australia
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Hi JoshuaTree,

Where is this information specified? The bit about the 10% vs 50%, that is.

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Post #: 7

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 6:51:31 PM

Herode_2

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quote:

Say you attack one hex = no bonus, two hexes next to each other = 10% bonus, but if you attack from two hexes opposite from each other = 50% bonus.

Gosh, I was not aware of that. Shame on me, I should have read the combat log file. I've just launched a test game and simulated several 2*1 attacks from various relative positions and indeed, you're tree Joshuatrue ! Great news indeed, for it sounds far better this way than with the rough n*50% bonus I erroneously supposed !

(in reply to Joshuatree)

Post #: 8

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 11:11:01 PM

WhiteOwl

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From: Sydney, Australia
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Cool, sounds like playing around with the combat log on has its benefits!

Thanks

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Post #: 9

RE: Combat Questions - 2/23/2008 11:55:53 PM

Joshuatree

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From: Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhiteOwl

Hi JoshuaTree,

Where is this information specified? The bit about the 10% vs 50%, that is.

Well it's actually displayed on the main screen, where it also displays the size of the unit stacks.
Note that the *stack* count is not the same as the actual *number* on the counter. So a counter may have a number of say 80, for three tanks for example, but if you look at the counter info on *stack* (stk) .... not *stock*) it may very well be that it counts as a 30 size stack.
If you put that one unit in attack mode, the display says something like this: 30/100 attack/ 0% bonus. Put another unit in the same hex with a stack size of say 60 (remember, not the number it says on the counter, but the stk value). Put both in attack mode then it says something like this: 90/100 attack/ 0% bonus. Put yet another counter with a stack size of 65 in adjacent hex in attack mode: 155/150 attack/ 10% bonus. That's 5 more then allowed so you get a small penalty.
More directions you're attacking from is more bonus (Good work Victor!) with the greatest bonus from an attack from the rear. I'm still not sure whether or not if differs if the units are from different HQ's! Gonna find that out next.

So I try to make my counters 50-60 size stacks. Meaning you can attack with two units from one hex without getting penalties. The actual penalties are described in the manual under "crowding" page 56.
I found it somewhat confusing in the beginning that the number on the counter is not the same as the stack value, but actually it makes good sense. You just have to learn to "read" the counters.

(in reply to WhiteOwl)

Post #: 10

RE: Combat Questions - 2/24/2008 1:34:21 AM

Joshuatree

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Update: it *does* matter if the units you're attacking with are from different HQ's ... the attack bonus is about halved! Instead a 10% concentric attack bonus from 2 hexes you get 4%, if you attack from four adjacent hexes you get 50% bonus instead of 100% bonus. So, well, reflects reality I guess, more HQ's involved in an attack things get more complicated.

< Message edited by Joshuatree -- 2/24/2008 1:35:51 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Combat Questions - 2/24/2008 3:09:24 AM

WhiteOwl

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Thanks Joshuatree! The more I learn about this game, the better it gets! This is the only game I know besides Battlefront that does such a good job in simulating HQs. Brings to mind all sorts of RL tactics, like attacking at the seam of two different HQs, etc. Very Cool!

(in reply to Joshuatree)

Post #: 12

RE: Combat Questions - 3/2/2008 9:00:08 PM

Herode_2

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One more set of questions.

1 - The Holy Manual says :

quote:

13.7.11 Favorites
For each class of subformation types there is a favorite score. This score determines which target this subformation type will be most likely to attack.

The Poor Lonesome Players asks :

quote:

Where the hell is this favourite score to be found ?

2 - The stats panel for SFTs has a "vs. SFTypes" tab, wich displays two columns : Attack/Defend kill chance. Under these headers are a number of numbers, like : 0.32x, 0.16x, 1.25x. Am I right if I suppose those numbers are modifiers of the Kill% for this SFT ?
If so, how does it work ? My Rifle SFT has Kill% 25, Retreat% 25, hence Attrition% 50. But vs. Flak, the kill chance says 0.32x / 0.32x. If my rifle attacks a flak, is it : Kill% 25*0.32 = 8, Retreat% 25, hence Attrition% 67. Or is it : Kill% 25, Retreat% 25, hence Attrition% 50 and if a kill has been rolled, a second roll with 32% chances of success confirms the kill ? Or something else ?

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Post #: 13

Herode2 - 3/5/2008 6:48:53 AM

balto

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I was hoping someone would respond to you. I would like to know what that is also. Your suggestion that is it the SECOND Roll cannot be correct because anything over 1.0 would be a confirmed Kill. So maybe it is your first idea about the Attrition being 67%. So likewise if we had that 1.25x factor, the Retreat is 25%, Kill is 31% [25%*A.25] and attrition at 44%. Could that be it?

Can I ask you something else related to numbers? In that same screen for Rifle, it says that tanks attack infantry at 2:1 odds. WTF is that? None of the tables or numbers support that. Those type of odds are mentioned in all the descriptions and none of them are supported by the facts we are given. Do yo have any thoughts on that? Thank you in advance.

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Post #: 14

RE: Herode2 - 3/5/2008 11:26:11 AM

Vic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: balto

I was hoping someone would respond to you.� I would like to know what that is also.� Your suggestion that is it the SECOND Roll cannot be correct because anything over 1.0 would be a confirmed Kill.� So maybe it is your first idea about the Attrition being 67%.� So likewise if we had that 1.25x factor, the Retreat is 25%, Kill is 31% [25%*A.25] and attrition at 44%.� Could that be it?�

Can I ask you something else related to numbers?� In that same screen for Rifle, it says that tanks attack infantry at 2:1 odds.� WTF is that?� None of the tables or numbers support that.� Those type of odds are mentioned in all the descriptions and none of them are supported by the facts we are given.� Do yo have any thoughts on that? Thank you in advance.

Hi there,

The list of all possible targets is sorted on how favourite for an SFType the targets are. 1 = most favourite, 2= 2nd , 3=th, etc...

And as to what the 1.25x, 0.32x mean..... If it says 0.32 it means the rifle will probably kill 0.32 flak in 10 combat rounds. (not counting retreats and pinning hits).

And for your other question. The odds are based on actual battle results from a lot of test battles. If you look at Rifle and its kill chance on light tank you see its 0.05 (1/20) and if you look a Light tank you see its 16x versus Infantry.

As for your 2:1 odds question in the text description. i think that might indeed be a bit of a positive view on the tanks potential.

(in reply to balto)

Post #: 15

Howdy Vic - 3/5/2008 12:50:43 PM

balto

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Vic, thank you. Armored Cars have factor 16x and 32x. So how does that work with the 10 Combat Rounds?

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Post #: 16

RE: Combat Questions - 3/5/2008 1:35:25 PM

Banquet

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