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newbie here with CV question - 2/28/2008 11:23:32 PM   
mashkis

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		How do you use your CV force? I trying to see how do I get my CV force engaged without it going after the enemy's CV force full speed. I have tried setting it to retirement allowed and react to enemy but nothing happens. But when I switch to patrol/do not retire it moves towards the Japanees CV and I end-up loosing the battle and the ships.

Any suggestions?
Post #: 1
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/28/2008 11:30:41 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Set it to do not react to enemy and put a cautious or careful commander in charge of the TF.  If the TF is set to patrol it wont run if attacked and will stay in it's destination hex until ordered otherwise.  If it's set to retire it'll leave for base after combat if things aren't good or reaching the destination set by you.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to mashkis)
Post #: 2
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 12:12:00 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		They will still react by moving one hex closer to a spotted enemy CV force if they are within a certain range (have to look it up in the manual) even with their orders set to "Do Not React", but the do not react order will keep them from racing further into enemy land based air range to get at a spotted enemy CV task force.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 3
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 1:10:40 AM   
daveja vu

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Caution has to be used with the CV forces.  Unfortunately the game mechanics seem to disregard the risk of moving CV's into range of substantial land-based air assets (the Rabaul-based Betty/Nell "Line of Death").  Keep them close enough to your objectives to provide air cover and intercept any enemy shipping within range, but not so far out that they will go charging after any enemy CV force that shows up, usually into LBA range.  Even without LBA cover, standup fights with equal numbers of enemy CV's early in the game tend to be quite costly to both sides, particularly yours. 

Decisions must be made as to whether to accept such losses in order to whittle down enemy CV power for later in the game, or to conserve your forces until you get more carriers (playing as Allied), but then allowing the Japanese CV's to run all over your bases (and convoys) with impunity. ALWAYS set your CV forces to "Do Not React"; it won't totally stop them but make it a little less likely to take off on you.  You can set them to react later in the game when you get Hellcat-equipped Essex and Independence cariers, but if you've made it that far in the game chances are you've pretty much won and there is little left to fight.  

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 4
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 6:58:03 PM   
mashkis

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 1/29/2005
Status: offline 		thanks for the quick response. So, the basic rule is set the CV force to retirement allowed and do not react. Keep them close to action but not too close where it can be attacked. I played the first senario last night and got marginal victory. There is a lot to learn with this game.

I have also noticed that when I set night bombing missions they do not happen always. What is causing this?

(in reply to daveja vu)
Post #: 5
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 7:54:29 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Changing a sqd to night missions isn't a good idea as they have no night training.  You need very highly trained crews for this and the value of the raids might not be worth the risks.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to mashkis)
Post #: 6
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 7:55:08 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mashkis

thanks for the quick response. So, the basic rule is set the CV force to retirement allowed and do not react. Keep them close to action but not too close where it can be attacked. I played the first senario last night and got marginal victory. There is a lot to learn with this game.

I have also noticed that when I set night bombing missions they do not happen always. What is causing this?



Be careful not to fall into the automatic assumption that "retirement allowed" is always the best setting.

I strongly suggest you make the effort to either read the manual in PDF form or spend the extra money to get it printed.
There is a very good section in the manul that desribes fully how "retirement allowed/patrol do not retire" and "react/do not react" affect the actions of various different types of task forces, including how to set up and implement night bombardment runs.

While you can get good answers here, you can also get conflicting and confusing answers sometimes and will only get a smattering of the full picture.

(in reply to mashkis)
Post #: 7
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 9:18:40 PM   
Joe D.


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Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mashkis

How do you use your CV force? ...


Depends on which side I'm playing and whether it's against the AI or a smarter human via PBEM.

Generally, I try to separate my CVs into separate TFs; that way it's harder for the enemy to get at them all on his first sortie, but the downside is that my air attacks are not as coordinated or as powerful when launching from separate TFs.

As added insurance, I want to have a friendly airbase within flying range just in case my CVs are sunk, or severely damaged such that they can't land any planes. It would be a shame to lose both the CVs and their air; sometimes these orphaned planes can launch a retaliatory second stike against enemy CVs from their new "home".

If I'm in friendly waters, I set my CVs to react; if not, then I use "don't react to enemy" as the TFs might easilly steam right into harms way.


_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to mashkis)
Post #: 8
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 9:40:36 PM   
pasternakski


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Joined: 6/29/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mashkis

But when I switch to patrol/do not retire it moves towards the Japanees CV and I end-up loosing the battle and the ships.

Any suggestions?

1. Create a surface combat TF set to"patrol/do not retire."
2. Set your CV TFs to follow it (they should also be on "patrol/do not retire").
3. Move the surface TF around the map, and the CVs will stay in the same hex with it.
4. Lather, rinse, repeat.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to mashkis)
Post #: 9
RE: newbie here with CV question - 2/29/2008 10:24:33 PM   
DEB


Posts: 687
Joined: 1/29/2005
From: Bristol , England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: mashkis

But when I switch to patrol/do not retire it moves towards the Japanees CV and I end-up loosing the battle and the ships.

Any suggestions?

1. Create a surface combat TF set to"patrol/do not retire."
2. Set your CV TFs to follow it (they should also be on "patrol/do not retire").
3. Move the surface TF around the map, and the CVs will stay in the same hex with it.
4. Lather, rinse, repeat.


I think he is referring to a Air to Sea combat and not a Sea to Sea one.
Reaction status is the key here, as noted earlier.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 10
RE: newbie here with CV question - 3/1/2008 9:45:37 AM   
pasternakski


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Joined: 6/29/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DEB
I think he is referring to a Air to Sea combat and not a Sea to Sea one.
Reaction status is the key here, as noted earlier.


No, you see, this is how you avoid the dreaded CV TF "reacts toward enemy" ridiculousness. I am NOT talking about surface combat.

Of course you have your TFs on "do not react" status - but, unless you do what I suggest, one or more of your CV TFs will move toward the enemy and become crispy critters. "Do not react" orders have NOTHING to do with it, and will not save you.

Also (and this applies in WITP, as well), this damnable game "feature" will always split your multiple CV TFs into separate hexes. They never "react" together into the same hex for mutual support.

One of the many annoyingly incompetent design decisions that have, in their cumulative effect, put me off playing these two games permanently.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to DEB)
Post #: 11
RE: newbie here with CV question - 3/1/2008 3:26:14 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

... Also (and this applies in WITP, as well), this damnable game "feature" will always split your multiple CV TFs into separate hexes. They never "react" together into the same hex for mutual support.


I thought you were using the surface TF as bait, but apparently it's an "anchor" to keep your CVs in the same hex; that gives better CAP w/o putting all your "eggs" in the same (TF) "basket".

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
One of the many annoyingly incompetent design decisions that have, in their cumulative effect, put me off playing these two games permanently.


Forced retirement, huh.


< Message edited by Joe D. -- 3/1/2008 3:48:40 PM >

_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 12
RE: newbie here with CV question - 3/1/2008 3:39:50 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Tom( pasternakski ) knows what he is talking about. If you use a SCTF to "lead" your CV TFs about, the CV TFs will not react. Plus, if you really need to retire, give the SCTF a home base that is 25 hexes or less away and it will move at full speed and your CVTFs will follow also at full speed.

And HI Tom

_____________________________


(in reply to Joe D.)
Post #: 13
RE: newbie here with CV question - 3/2/2008 12:09:12 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Of course I know what I am talking about, but what's this "Tom" sh1t, Kenny?

Careful or I'll have to drag a case of those cold ones up your mountain somewhere and celebrate.

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 3/2/2008 12:13:52 PM >

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 14
RE: newbie here with CV question - 3/2/2008 3:28:08 PM   
Joe D.


Posts: 4004
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Of course I know what I am talking about ...


No one said you didn't, and for the record, you're not the only player whose become exasperated w/Grisgby's PTO engine. I have had to re-install UV several times out of sheer frustration w/it, but now that I'm playing PBEM, the game has new life.

There are certainly problems w/this engine, but your opponent has the same troubles as you, so at least it's "fairly" frustrating.


_____________________________

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 15
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