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RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 2/19/2008 8:37:20 AM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Sounds good for AE,

I hope any future developers consider working on this


So, you figure all the current ones will be canned once the game comes out??





yep.

I was assuming a whole new breed of programmers to bring WITP into the 21st Century, of course with the experience of the old farts from the earlier releases.


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Post #: 571
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 2/19/2008 12:31:24 PM   
TheElf


Posts: 3870
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From: Pax River, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

Will the combat anims also changed? If one played historcally it gave away too much info.

THX.

Even more FOW-ier.



The question is, how many of you would watch that animation and then complain to us that the Sync Bug was rampant in your game?

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Post #: 572
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/1/2008 8:06:14 PM   
hbrsvl

 

Posts: 1155
Joined: 10/2/2002
Status: offline 		I hope I'm in the right pew. If not, firgive me.

My question is, will you replace MacArthur with Nimitz, Halsey or Spruance as the face we see all the time? Seems to me if this is The Admiral's Edition, we should have an admiral rather than Mac.

Thanks, Hugh Browne

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 573
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/4/2008 6:17:38 AM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		This is just a small thing...maybe not even in the right thread.

But please, pretty please, can you have the British Withdrawl of ships not require the withdrawl of ships that do not exist on the map? In particular, I refer to British Destroyers. If you get hit with a lot of required British withdrawls, in several past games, the game is demanding that I withdraw for example, 1 CLAA and 2DD's. But sadly...I don't have ANY British DD's to withdraw...as they have already been withdrawn! And thus, I get hit with the PP Penalty.

On another note, I'm very glad to hear the AI is going to be substantially reworked. I love WiTP, but the AI has never been good.

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 574
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/4/2008 2:29:16 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Just a check on PP's.

I was thinking of my recently finished game with Faber and had noticed something (I think).......i'm fairly sure that British ship withdrawals are nto working properly come 1945. By that I mean that it was asking for a CVE and 2 x DD for the lats few months and every month I didn't withdraw them BUT I also didn't lose the equivalent PP's.....

Just mentioning in case it needs any checking in AE.

Steven

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Post #: 575
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/4/2008 10:21:05 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Probably shouldn't lose pps. What pressing needs did the British have for their ships in the Atlantic in '45 anyway?

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Post #: 576
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 1:09:34 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		I agree but my thoughts is was it intentional that the game didn't take PP's come 1945?

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Post #: 577
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 1:19:58 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Just a thought, but maybe the most recent posts are kinda moot, given that the British withdrawal system doesn't exist any more?

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Post #: 578
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 2:52:26 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Me =

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Post #: 579
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 2:56:06 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The Monty Python fish-slapping dance?

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Post #: 580
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 3:03:53 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Me = dumbass
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T = dumbass


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Post #: 581
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/5/2008 3:05:46 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Self-awareness is always good, Speedette...

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Post #: 582
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/6/2008 10:55:33 AM   
Rainerle

 

Posts: 463
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Burghausen/Bavaria
Status: offline 		Commenting on PP ponits.
Why is it then when I decide to swap the commander of a lowly ASW (or some other unimportant) TF I have to pay around 8-10 PP if I swap a LCDR with a LCDR and only around 4-6 if I swap a LCDR with a ADM ??? Are admirals that plenty that I can put them in worthless commands?

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Post #: 583
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/6/2008 4:23:36 PM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Commenting on PP ponits.
Why is it then when I decide to swap the commander of a lowly ASW (or some other unimportant) TF I have to pay around 8-10 PP if I swap a LCDR with a LCDR and only around 4-6 if I swap a LCDR with a ADM ??? Are admirals that plenty that I can put them in worthless commands?


Completely reworked in AE



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Post #: 584
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/6/2008 5:50:50 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Speaking of Political Points as I'm frustrated with only getting 50 PP per day in CHS, will they be modified throughout the game or remain the same throughout??  It would be nice for the Allied to get a few bumps up as the game goes along (start at 50 and go to 100 and then 150 as an example).

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Post #: 585
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/6/2008 7:59:32 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		How Vichy forces (land, sea, air) in Indochina will be managed in AE ?
On map at start or triggered by allied approach ?
Any other specials rules ?
Thanks

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Post #: 586
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 6:50:42 PM   
agm

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline 		It's been three months since the Big Announcement. Any hope you can give us a more definitive version of "summer" for availability. Thanks and great work!
Another Andy Mac

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Post #: 587
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 7:11:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hmm I probably should wait for Joe to do it but I always was a tad impatient - I am sure Joe could give you all the rounded fuller version but here is my potted version.

Things are moving well - art is looking great new air ORBAT is in and looks fantastic, land and sea are both also almost done. We are tweaking a few bits and pieces but its coming together nicely

AI is a PITA and always will be - I have probably spent 90% of my time on AI for the last two months as has half the land team and some even more - really really getting to hate the AI work although its looking a lot better. (Did I mention how much I hate the AI )

Its doing a lot of things with some sense and is scriptable e.g. we are not quite up to having random scripts but if I had the time (and it will be exposed in the editor so someone else can) I could go through and create 4 or 5 different AI Scripts for each side post em on a site for the main scenario and let the player randomly select one to use with the AI following a different core strategy each time.

Getting one integrated AI up and running takes a lot of time but I am sure others will take up the challenge after you get your hands on the editor to do just that.

Scenarios not yet built (and no dont ask me about which scenarios are going to make the cut because I don't know)

All teams are working on tweaks from a land team perspective we just got an auto squad upgrade up and running so that as a squad type is returned to the pool it auto upgrades to the most current version - e.g. USMC 41 Squad when the player has sufficient 42 Squads to upgrade the 41 Squads that are returned to the pool automatically become 42 squads and can be used to upgrade the next unit. This allows mass conversion of squad type devices when an upgrade happens.

We also got Invasion scenarios in for both sides so invading places like India or NZ or the HI will have consequences.

Did a trawl through the leader database and added a few more Air Commodores and AVM's for HQ's

Convoys system is in for off map bases to allow varied supply levels by month and varied device availability

End dates for land device production so no more masses of obsolete equipment.

Basically lots of changes all still to be tested and may need to be disabled (Coders have done a superb job to get in the the final adjustments but we are pretty much all in testing or AI mode now)

So much to say so little time I hope the above helps you to see where we are driving at.

Andy

(in reply to agm)
Post #: 588
AI - 3/10/2008 7:36:41 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		I'm interested in your comments about the AI. I work on biologically-inspired robotics, so I have to deal with the scripting problem. Our current direction involves a action value system that incorporates three elements: reflexes, habits, and goal-oriented behaviour. The decision-making involves selection from available actions by summing the expected values of each (in terms of each element), weighted by 1/(variance). (Thus high risk scripts would have low weights.) Then select actions in terms of these estimated values, starting at the top. Goal-oriented behaviour involves having a forward model of each possible operation. We are just beginning to understand how forward modelling takes place in the brain. It seems to involve the posterior part of the cerebellum, which doesn't work with the motor system, but instead seems to play a more general role. The Purkinge cells of the cerebellum are the biggest and most computationally sophisticated neurones in the CNS. They linearize actions and learn the partials of the payoffs as a function of adjustable parameters so they can report back the change of payoffs as a function of changes to parameter settings.

What this suggests is that your AI might take the approach of integrating reflex behaviour, habitual behaviour (using an actor-critic approach that caches payoffs), and goal oriented behaviour. All three categories involve scripts. The goal-oriented behaviour scripts have adjustable parameters. You then need a model for each goal-oriented script that predicts payoffs and converts parameter settings into deltas to the payoffs. Keep track of script performance in an engine database, and optimise over time for each installation.

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(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 589
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 7:44:58 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

End dates for land device production so no more masses of obsolete equipment.

Andy


Will this be true for aircraft as well?

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Post #: 590
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 9:15:12 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Sorry Herwin thats pretty much above my pay grade I will need to refer you to someone that understands the AI stuff - I am very much in the just trying to get it doing sensible stuff camp.

I believe air have end dates as well but not sure how it works one of the airdales would need to answer that one....

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Post #: 591
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 9:19:14 PM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		Thank you for the info.

Enerytime I read something new, I am amazed and filled with wonder.

I haven't been this excited for a game to be released since Red Baron 2.

I am going to be off work for about six months {starting last week}, so I just wished timing could have coincided with that a little better.

< Message edited by rockmedic109 -- 3/10/2008 9:21:01 PM >

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Post #: 592
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/10/2008 9:50:21 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
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From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Sorry Herwin thats pretty much above my pay grade I will need to refer you to someone that understands the AI stuff - I am very much in the just trying to get it doing sensible stuff camp.

I believe air have end dates as well but not sure how it works one of the airdales would need to answer that one....


If you can even get it to the point that it actually moves while drooling instead of just standing still and drooling it will be an improvement.


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Post #: 593
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 12:00:46 AM   
Lameduck

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		If you don't mind a newbie asking a question, can political points received be based on current score? I have the impression that the Allied player will be deciding what units he gets by purchasing them by using his points.

I see all these AAR's where Japan is doing much better than they did historically, but there's no way to simulate the Allies responding to the Japanese threat.

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Post #: 594
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 12:01:47 AM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lameduck

If you don't mind a newbie asking a question, can political points received be based on current score? I have the impression that the Allied player will be deciding what units he gets by purchasing them by using his points.



No, and where do you get that idea?

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Post #: 595
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 12:17:56 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Some of the mods have more units (compared to stock) listed as West Coast Command which then require PPs to be spent in order to bring them forward. Some of these mods give more PPs in order to facilitate this requirement.

It's possible, Terminus, that Lameduck is noticing this in some of the AARs he is reading and has extrapolated that AE will be similar.

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RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 12:31:54 AM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That's a definite possibility...

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Post #: 597
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 2:46:09 AM   
Lameduck

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry, I went through most of the AE threads in the last few days, and they're bit jumbled up for me. What I was thinking of came from this
quote:



ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: 1275psi

Hi
The AE threads are getting pretty big, and I have not really followed them too much -I already am going to get it! -a quick question on Political points
I understand that not returning a ship will be expensive.
But what is to stop a person just going into the political points red -and then deciding -well -Ill never get back into the green -Ill just never return anything now.
Tabpub against me nhas never returned a single ship as far as I can tell -and in game terms it has'nt hurt too much.

Would it make more sense to say -well, you are in the red -no reinforcements for you until you are back into the green!

Probably been covered all this - so sorry in advance




If you run out of Political Points in AE, you will be screwed. The politicians will not let you do anything! They won't let go of land or air units, won't allow you to change commanders, and other things that don't pop to mind right now.

That's what political points are for.



Is there a difference in the use of PPs in AE vs WitP?

Edit: I'll ask this in the general thread.



Not really but most of the US/Allied stuff iirc enters as part of restricted commands...so to go anywhere or do anything with them will require PP.


I was thinking that maybe Allied reinforcements would be at some "eastern US" base and have to be bought out before they can be used. If so, then if the Japanese are doing much better than historical and have a large lead, then the Allies could get more PP's to free up more units. Many ships such as the Wasp could have been sent to the Pacific earlier if the situation was so dire that they were needed.

What made me think of this is the "Forlorn Hopes" AAR where the Japanese are approaching Sydney. A large scale invasion of Southeast Australia could have forced the cancellation of Torch and brought the Wasp and maybe some British CV's into the Pacific earlier.

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Post #: 598
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 3:12:01 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ah ok I understand some of this is under debate now.

Broadly forces attached to India Command, West Coast and Australia Command and some NZ Command units must be bought out by PP's

Forces that arrive after the start tend not to be restricted.

For the 1st 6 months the allies will have some tough choices to make with PP's

Do you replace Percival 250 PP's
Do you replace Heath another 150 PP's
Do you try to save some US units in the PI
Do you try to free up units from Australia/NZ or the West Coast to garrison the SLOC or try to get enough points to buy a Bde or two from India to further reinforce Malaya ?

PP's are going to be in short supply as the allies for 6 months.

After that how many PP's are REQUIRED to get the historic ORBAT is a matter still under debate inside the team.

Certainly some US forces that served in the Pacific will need to be acquired especially those on the west coast in the 1st 6 months of the war.
All the Australian Militia Bdes that served overseas need to be bought out.
The NZ Bdes that served with 3rd NZ Div will  be available and will need to be bought out
As will the Canadian Bde Group that served in the Aleutians
Also some India Command Units will need to be bought out of a restricted command.

Some choices will be easier. e.g. Most of the Dutch Army on Java cannot be moved to another island and you cannot buy them out with PP's other islands can redeploy if you have PP's

Remember units have about 50% more devices than stock so units cost more to release.

On balance PP's are going to be tighter throughout the war and there will be less scope for buying out all the forces and sending them off to fight.

e.g. Canadian Bde Gps able to be bought out will still number 3 but static devices will slow down the rate of acquisition. NZ HDef Bdes will be restricted from changing HQ so again only 1 or 2 extra bdes will even be available.

Basically these forces 'may' be released eventually but you will be sacrificing a US oir Indian unit to do it - thats the aim not sure yet how its going to work out.




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Post #: 599
RE: Admiral's Edition General Thread - 3/11/2008 3:24:39 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Andy, one thing you said brings up an issue for me. You mentioned that after the first few months most US forces would not be arriving at restricted commands. I dislike having too many forces preallocated to South Pacific, Central Pacific, etc. because while that might reflect historical disposition, if the opposing Japanese player emphasizes attacks along a different axis, then the Allied player is stuck with (for example) zillions of troops going to SouthPac when the threat is up north.

I like the idea of all (or most) arriving forces being assigned to the 'home command'. If that command is a restricted one, as in West Coast, then allocate the PP's to reassign them once. Any shifting of LCU later would have to use the very dear daily PP's.

I thought I remembered reading earlier in these AE threads that what I described was roughly how things were going to be in AE, but you seem to be saying otherwise:

quote:

Certainly some US forces that served in the Pacific will need to be acquired especially those on the west coast in the 1st 6 months of the war.


I am interpreting that to mean that the remaining US forces will not need to be acquired.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
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