Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: okami
Can't you just increase the load cost of all items and then it would take more ships to load the same stuff? Increase the load/unload speeds so that it does not take any more time to load/unload. Then we could have the same number of ships but less over capacity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ken Estes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

By George, I think you've got it! Excellent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: okami
Can't you just increase the load cost of all items and then it would take more ships to load the same stuff? Increase the load/unload speeds so that it does not take any more time to load/unload. Then we could have the same number of ships but less over capacity.

No because then you run into the problem of not being able to load a ship with its historically correct load. Some divisions were loaded onto one ship during the war, but because they reduced historical load abilities already, you need lots of ships to load a division. One AK could carry enough supplies to feed an entire Corps of troops, but if you increase load costs it will take x number more AK’s to achieve the same thing one AK could do historically.

The problem in game stems from the fact the Japanese civilian economy demanded (as did all nations civilian economies) most of the Japanese tonnage during the war. In fact Japanese planners had to temporarily requisition over 1,000,000 tons of shipping from civilian authorities to conduct their early campaigns in the Pacific. Within 6 months of the start of the war this tonnage was no longer under military control.

I think the best solution is to simply demand that each factory use 6 oil and 6 supplies a day to produce what it normally produces now. The one for one system we have now makes it too easy to lift the needed resources and oil home to feed the industry. A lot more stuff that isn’t modeled in game was needed in Japan to keep its industry humming and people fed.

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Like I said there are other solutions and if you look at the numbers they do not need to be anything so dramatic as x5 or x6.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Just a thought...given that Japan has so many production options and the Allies...well, nada, what about allowing the allies the ability to convert Cleveland class CLs and Baltimore class CAs into Independence class and Saipan class CVLs, like the merchant conversions work (AK - AR etc)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Just a thought...given that Japan has so many production options and the Allies...well, nada, what about allowing the allies the ability to convert Cleveland class CLs and Baltimore class CAs into Independence class and Saipan class CVLs, like the merchant conversions work (AK - AR etc)?

quote:

Aggregate losses during the course of the war were of the order of magnitude of 50,000 planes, of which something less than 40 percent were combat losses, and something over 60 percent were training, ferrying, and other noncombat losses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: okami
Can't you just increase the load cost of all items and then it would take more ships to load the same stuff? Increase the load/unload speeds so that it does not take any more time to load/unload. Then we could have the same number of ships but less over capacity.

No because then you run into the problem of not being able to load a ship with its historically correct load. Some divisions were loaded onto one ship during the war, but because they reduced historical load abilities already, you need lots of ships to load a division. One AK could carry enough supplies to feed an entire Corps of troops, but if you increase load costs it will take x number more AK’s to achieve the same thing one AK could do historically.

The problem in game stems from the fact the Japanese civilian economy demanded (as did all nations civilian economies) most of the Japanese tonnage during the war. In fact Japanese planners had to temporarily requisition over 1,000,000 tons of shipping from civilian authorities to conduct their early campaigns in the Pacific. Within 6 months of the start of the war this tonnage was no longer under military control.

I think the best solution is to simply demand that each factory use 6 oil and 6 supplies a day to produce what it normally produces now. The one for one system we have now makes it too easy to lift the needed resources and oil home to feed the industry. A lot more stuff that isn’t modeled in game was needed in Japan to keep its industry humming and people fed.

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: okami
Can't you just increase the load cost of all items and then it would take more ships to load the same stuff? Increase the load/unload speeds so that it does not take any more time to load/unload. Then we could have the same number of ships but less over capacity.

No because then you run into the problem of not being able to load a ship with its historically correct load. Some divisions were loaded onto one ship during the war, but because they reduced historical load abilities already, you need lots of ships to load a division. One AK could carry enough supplies to feed an entire Corps of troops, but if you increase load costs it will take x number more AK’s to achieve the same thing one AK could do historically.

The problem in game stems from the fact the Japanese civilian economy demanded (as did all nations civilian economies) most of the Japanese tonnage during the war. In fact Japanese planners had to temporarily requisition over 1,000,000 tons of shipping from civilian authorities to conduct their early campaigns in the Pacific. Within 6 months of the start of the war this tonnage was no longer under military control.

I think the best solution is to simply demand that each factory use 6 oil and 6 supplies a day to produce what it normally produces now. The one for one system we have now makes it too easy to lift the needed resources and oil home to feed the industry. A lot more stuff that isn’t modeled in game was needed in Japan to keep its industry humming and people fed.

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

I like this idea but would like to put in for making the conversion factor a senario variable, so modders could change it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Thats the US usage most other nations were a lot lower (although had other complexities) - Indian army was a fraction of that supply level but required a lot of different ration types.

I would need to recheck my sources but supply for an Indian Div was about c 60 tons a day although that increased dramatically after re mechanisation.


And was  

quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: okami
Can't you just increase the load cost of all items and then it would take more ships to load the same stuff? Increase the load/unload speeds so that it does not take any more time to load/unload. Then we could have the same number of ships but less over capacity.

No because then you run into the problem of not being able to load a ship with its historically correct load. Some divisions were loaded onto one ship during the war, but because they reduced historical load abilities already, you need lots of ships to load a division. One AK could carry enough supplies to feed an entire Corps of troops, but if you increase load costs it will take x number more AK’s to achieve the same thing one AK could do historically.

The problem in game stems from the fact the Japanese civilian economy demanded (as did all nations civilian economies) most of the Japanese tonnage during the war. In fact Japanese planners had to temporarily requisition over 1,000,000 tons of shipping from civilian authorities to conduct their early campaigns in the Pacific. Within 6 months of the start of the war this tonnage was no longer under military control.

I think the best solution is to simply demand that each factory use 6 oil and 6 supplies a day to produce what it normally produces now. The one for one system we have now makes it too easy to lift the needed resources and oil home to feed the industry. A lot more stuff that isn’t modeled in game was needed in Japan to keep its industry humming and people fed.

If you simply make the formula for producing 1 point of supply 5 to 6 times more expensive, you suddenly put a serious strain on the shipping without affecting other areas of the game. Since resource centers and oil centers no longer produce supply and fuel as byproducts, increasing their sizes by 5 or 6 times shouldn’t have any affect at all on the game.

Jim

I like this idea but would like to put in for making the conversion factor a senario variable, so modders could change it.

Extensive research was conducted and the required resources will likely be changing.

I am not in a position to promise anything however you will likely see the ability to change the conversion factor in the editor in a subsequent patch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zebedee
re. Japanese fuel supply - totally agree that it already starts to run dry by 43. One thing I notice as well is that I have an overabundance of oil on the home isles but very little in the way of resources.

Created by the amazing Dixie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

First; the reason the average Jap player does much better than his historical counterpart is because he knows from hindsight not to do certain things/do certain things. There is no real consequence of doing something wrong. Let KB hang around Pearl a week or two and bomb the base to bits. If you screw up and lose a CV or two, a new game is just a restart away. There is no IJA/IJN conflict, the supply system is abstracted enough to let you reload 16 inch-shells from any random base on the map you captured two days ago. Aircraft magically appears on a remote jungle base simply by clicking on a button. Etc etc etc. Production comes very low on this list of why the Japs do better than historically.

Second; the idea to cripple the Japanese industry by putting a limit on the production is ridiculous. That is like claiming that it was physically impossible for an industrial nation with millions of citizens to build more than 1000 aircraft a month. Thats just stupid. Does anyone in here really believe that if the Japs had had enough resources, factories, manpower, oil, infrastructure etc, they wouldnt have been able to build more aircraft than they did in real life? The US would always be able to produce more, yes, but that is a different kettle of fish entirely. Then your beef is with the US production system and not the Jap production system. A far better solution would be, then, to increase US production if Jap production reaches a certain threshold. For example, if Japanese aircraft production gets higher than 1000 aircraft per month, then the US production doubles. If it gets higher than 2000 aircraft per month, then the US production is quadrupled.

In many of the AARs where the Jap player has huge production numbers, the Jap player has also captured large parts of China, sometimes even India or Australia. With all that the added industry, resources, manpower who can really argue that it would be impossible for the Japs to produce more than they did in history?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


That's interesting. In one of my PBEMs (21 Apr 43), my total fuel is >3.75 million points. I wouldn't say I have an overabundance of oil, but those levels are definitely higher than resources. The reason for that is that manpower uses resources.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sub warfare does not "suck". You have to put some work into it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: esteban

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sub warfare does not "suck". You have to put some work into it.

Sorry, but it sucks :)

I've only ever played the stock game PBEM, but:
1. The Japanese player uses his ASW assets much more like the Japanese should have instead of how they did--don't want to prevent that really, but it "sucks" for the Allied player
2. Lots of search aircraft and unemployed recon aircraft used on naval searches mean that you have a very hard time moving your subs around without your opponent seeing where you are going and rerouting his convoys/ASW accordingly

In my experience, once you get past the initial part of the game subs are good for laying minefields and concentrating them around bases you are trying to defend or take where they can pick off cripples trying to make it home. You can try flooding an area where you feel lots of merchant ships are going to be, and that can get you some merchantmen, but if your opponent puts 4-5 bombers squadrons and 1-2 ASW task forces on patrol in the area then you will take extremely heavy casualties

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I agree with Charbroiled; you cannot leave Allied subs in one hex until they are low on fuel.  Either the ASW forces will show up or the convoys will avoid the area like the plague.  I usually leave them up to 3 days in one place before moving them, but if a convoy shows up I'll have them "chase" it hoping for additional attacks.  With these tactics I have lost only about half a dozen subs into early 1943, but have sunk many dozens of merchant ships.  The best areas I've found are off Japan's east coast, both east and west of Borneo, and NW of Truk.